Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

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selahsays

selahsays

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Rufus said:
So far removed from the metaphors of sheep and shepherds. How is it that scripture is so misunderstood?
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Yikes. I’m getting confused—and I know God is not the author of confusion. The way I understand it is that before the foundation of the world, those who were believers then were chosen and predestined. Right or not?
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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Cameron143 said:
Do you have a scriptural reference that shows something being changed into a sheep? What were they before?
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You are born without God. So something has to happen to be with God. And Jesus only called those "who followed Him" sheep. He never called someone sheep before they followed Him.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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Rufus said:
So far removed from the metaphors of sheep and shepherds. How is it that scripture is so misunderstood?

P.S. Wasn't Israel at one time the sheep of GOD's pasture? How did that happen?
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“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that would not see
and ears that would not hear,
down to this very day.”
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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Rufus said:
The Doctrines of Grace are far from fatalistic.
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Oh I agree.

But when you add Calvinism to the mix. you end up with Fatalism

They are filled with hope for all those who come to realize that just as Jeremiah was thrown into a very deep, dark pit, we all, too, came into this world cast into such a pit, as it were by Adam's sin, and as helpless and hopeless as the prophet until he was rescued by outside help from the Cushite on the order of the king. We, too, can only be rescued by the King who sends his Holy Spirit to rescue us. We are simply powerless to rescue ourselves. How is this "fatalistic"?
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But according to calvinism or fatalism, we can;t come to this unless we are made alive first.. in other words. Gods keeps the truth from ue, then opens our eyes and we have no choice but to believe

But if we are non elect. God with holds the truth from us so we never will understand even if we wanted to.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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FollowerofShiloh said:
You are born without God. So something has to happen to be with God. And Jesus only called those "who followed Him" sheep. He never called someone sheep before they followed Him.
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Really? Didn't He come to seek and to save the lost sheep? Isn't that before they followed Him?
Do you have a scriptural reference where it says that anything was turned into a sheep?
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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FollowerofShiloh said:
You are born without God. So something has to happen to be with God. And Jesus only called those "who followed Him" sheep. He never called someone sheep before they followed Him.
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Thats funny, Since he told the disciples to go to the lost sheep. before they followed him
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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Cameron143 said:
Really? Didn't He come to seek and to save the lost sheep? Isn't that before they followed Him?
Do you have a scriptural reference where it says that anything was turned into a sheep?
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If the Jews were sheep then they would have all been saved. Were they, even though Jesus told the religious leaders they are unclean?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Everlasting-Grace said:
Of course. If calvinism is true, we would not need to reach anyone with the gospel.
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Makes no difference what you believe about salvation. Jesus commanded that the gospel be preached and it is the gospel alone that is the power of God unto salvation. So the gospel will always be necessary to salvation because it is God's ordained means to salvation.
 
selahsays

selahsays

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Everlasting-Grace said:
Thats funny, Since he told the disciples to go to the lost sheep. before they followed him
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Could it be that the lost sheep don’t know they’re sheep until they hear the Gospel? And then they know that they know that they know their Shepherd? (they recognize Him).
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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FollowerofShiloh said:
If the Jews were sheep then they would have all been saved. Were they, even though Jesus told the religious leaders they are unclean?
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I never said they were all sheep. Most in fact weren't. There was only a remnant.
Can you please share the scripture that says something is turned into a sheep? What were they previously?
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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Cameron143 said:
Makes no difference what you believe about salvation. Jesus commanded that the gospel be preached and it is the gospel alone that is the power of God unto salvation. So the gospel will always be necessary to salvation because it is God's ordained means to salvation.
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I agree with you 100 %

Adam recieved the gospel. and God clothed him with the skins of an animal. Praise God
 
selahsays

selahsays

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FollowerofShiloh said:
If the Jews were sheep then they would have all been saved. Were they, even though Jesus told the religious leaders they are unclean?
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I believe not all Jews that say they’re Jews are true Jews.

I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

- Revelation 2:9 (KJV)
 
R

Rufus

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selahsays said:
Yikes. I’m getting confused—and I know God is not the author of confusion. The way I understand it is that before the foundation of the world, those who were believers then were chosen and predestined. Right or not?
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No. God did not choose people in eternity who he "foreknow" would come to believe by the power of their free will; rather, He [fore]knew people in eternity whom he predestined to become believers by the power of his grace which enables them to freely choose to believe.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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Cameron143 said:
What were they previously?
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Jesus said they were sinners.

7 Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.
 
selahsays

selahsays

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Rufus said:
No. God did not choose people in eternity who he "foreknow" would come to believe by the power of their free will; rather, He [fore]knew people in eternity whom he predestined to become believers by the power of his grace which enables them to freely choose to believe.
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I think you might be getting hung up on two little words: free will. :)
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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Rufus said:
No. God did not choose people in eternity who he "foreknow" would come to believe by the power of their free will; rather, He [fore]knew people in eternity whom he predestined to become believers by the power of his grace which enables them to freely choose to believe.
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whom he foreknew, he did predestine.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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selahsays said:
I believe not all Jews that say they’re Jews are true Jews.

I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

- Revelation 2:9 (KJV)
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I don't believe in spiritual Jews, only seeds of Abraham. I believe all natural born Jews are Jews, but not all natural born Jews are the seeds of Abraham spiritually.
 
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