Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
- Thread starter MerSee
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Incorrect. The only part of those verses speaking of Jesus is that He is firstborn. Basic grammatical syntax and understanding singular and plural bears this out.
What you accused me of earlier about having a predetermined doctrine is actually true of you. Any plural pronoun cannot be referring to a singular entity.
What you accused me of earlier about having a predetermined doctrine is actually true of you. Any plural pronoun cannot be referring to a singular entity.
How are you guys missing...
verse before 29-30
28 But we know that to those who love God all things work together for good, to those who are called according to his purpose.
and
verses after 29-30
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us?
32 He indeed that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how will he not also with him freely give us all things?
33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.
verse before 29-30
28 But we know that to those who love God all things work together for good, to those who are called according to his purpose.
and
verses after 29-30
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us?
32 He indeed that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how will he not also with him freely give us all things?
33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.
The passage has nothing to do about the predestination of Jesus. It has to do with the elect who are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ, so that Jesus MIGHT (which according to you means possibly, maybe, perhaps, potentially) be firstborn (if He's lucky, of course) among many elect (brethren).
And who are "these" in v. 30? Are these mice hidden under Jesus' robe? Can we expect righteous mice in heaven? Or would "these" be the "many brethren"?
And who are "these" in v. 30? Are these mice hidden under Jesus' robe? Can we expect righteous mice in heaven? Or would "these" be the "many brethren"?
By the way, Mr. Shiloh, the doctrine of Predestination has to with the eternal destiny of a particular group of sinners. So, when you say that Jesus is the one being predestined, you make him out to be a sinner who needed to be saved. God called Jesus, justified him and glorified him. We have God justifying his Son by imputing Jesus' own righteousness back to Himself. A rather absurd notion to most...but not to you. You'll come up with any ol' interpretation as long as fits in nicely with your heresy. Also, check out Eph 1:5,11 some day.
Hah. A minor point. You gonna quibble over personal pronouns? 
I see you don't appreciate Don Rickles-type sarcastic humor. My bad. Did not intend to offend.
I decided to get an independent viewpoint since we are at an impasse.
From Scholars and theologians:
1. This verse (30) has been called the Golden Chain. It describes God at work before creation, right through to the new creation .Jan 29, 2023
2. Predestination appears to involve a more rigorous necessity. It must not be interpreted in any sense that excludes free-will. Free-will is a postulate on which all the superstructure of morals and religion must rest.
To summarize definition 1 and 2:
Verse 29-30 is about the Predestination of Christ and the works of God.
And the usage of "them" are those who are saved by Free-Will.
From Scholars and theologians:
1. This verse (30) has been called the Golden Chain. It describes God at work before creation, right through to the new creation .Jan 29, 2023
2. Predestination appears to involve a more rigorous necessity. It must not be interpreted in any sense that excludes free-will. Free-will is a postulate on which all the superstructure of morals and religion must rest.
To summarize definition 1 and 2:
Verse 29-30 is about the Predestination of Christ and the works of God.
And the usage of "them" are those who are saved by Free-Will.
I decided to get an independent viewpoint since we are at an impasse.
From Scholars and theologians:
1. This verse (30) has been called the Golden Chain. It describes God at work before creation, right through to the new creation .Jan 29, 2023
2. Predestination appears to involve a more rigorous necessity. It must not be interpreted in any sense that excludes free-will. Free-will is a postulate on which all the superstructure of morals and religion must rest.
To summarize definition 1 and 2:
Verse 29-30 is about the Predestination of Christ and the works of God.
And the usage of "them" are those who are saved by Free-Will.
From Scholars and theologians:
1. This verse (30) has been called the Golden Chain. It describes God at work before creation, right through to the new creation .Jan 29, 2023
2. Predestination appears to involve a more rigorous necessity. It must not be interpreted in any sense that excludes free-will. Free-will is a postulate on which all the superstructure of morals and religion must rest.
To summarize definition 1 and 2:
Verse 29-30 is about the Predestination of Christ and the works of God.
And the usage of "them" are those who are saved by Free-Will.
I decided to get an independent viewpoint since we are at an impasse.
From Scholars and theologians:
1. This verse (30) has been called the Golden Chain. It describes God at work before creation, right through to the new creation .Jan 29, 2023
2. Predestination appears to involve a more rigorous necessity. It must not be interpreted in any sense that excludes free-will. Free-will is a postulate on which all the superstructure of morals and religion must rest.
To summarize definition 1 and 2:
Verse 29-30 is about the Predestination of Christ and the works of God.
And the usage of "them" are those who are saved by Free-Will.
From Scholars and theologians:
1. This verse (30) has been called the Golden Chain. It describes God at work before creation, right through to the new creation .Jan 29, 2023
2. Predestination appears to involve a more rigorous necessity. It must not be interpreted in any sense that excludes free-will. Free-will is a postulate on which all the superstructure of morals and religion must rest.
To summarize definition 1 and 2:
Verse 29-30 is about the Predestination of Christ and the works of God.
And the usage of "them" are those who are saved by Free-Will.
Because the Text is meant to show the process of God but the usage of some words reveal you are attempting to make into a LAW when there's no such intention.
You are taking the usage of "τούτους" to create a meaning not intended.
Kind of like John 3:16 usage of "world" and turning it into only the saved when it means the entire world.
+
Whosoever to mean someone specific.
You are taking the usage of "τούτους" to create a meaning not intended.
Kind of like John 3:16 usage of "world" and turning it into only the saved when it means the entire world.
+
Whosoever to mean someone specific.