Did Jesus Have an Advantage over Pre-Fall Adam During the Incarnation?

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cv5

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What has obedience have to do with who Christ is, if He obeys the Father does that mean He is no longer God. You can try to twist this any way you like but the fact remains that Jesus has always been fully God from all eternity. He never stopped being God for a second.
Yes. And one can only conclude that perfect agreement and seamless coordinated effort is inherently an aspect of the Trinity.
Frankly, our term "obedience" or "obey" hardly does the phenomenon justice.

More like unimpaired harmonious agreement without disputing that can never fail.
 

Pilgrimshope

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He used divine powers so he did not give that up.



He used his own powers but with permission of his Father.
“Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:22-24‬ ‭

when we read of Jesus the man it doesn’t mean he isn’t God . But rather than our God in heaven our creator became flesh and came into the world as one of us subject to God a true man .

“And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you can see Jesus humanity in places like this see the incredible intense pressure that was on him


“Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy. Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye hear, and watch with me.

And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:36-39, 42‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭22:43-44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus in the flesh carried humanity and overcame it perfecting the flesh

This is Jesus

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and so is this because he became this to save us

“Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the same God who created all things became a man, a savior and redeemer then he returned to heaven having created for us a salvation through his great and mighty name
 

sawdust

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i suggest God is never not God :)

He humbled Himself, setting aside His glory to take the form of a servant.

the help of man is worthless, says the scripture - therefore Who can save? if He is only man, there is no salvation.
The question isn't whether He is fully man or fully God. He is both eternally. During the Incarnation He laid aside His right to function as God and therefore I am asking whether he had an advantage in His humanity in comparison to Adam pre-fall.
 

sawdust

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Did you forget? His Glory was ALWAYS there......but it was "veiled" under flesh. Which veil was removed at the Transfiguration for the sake of the Apostles.

Just like the Ark of The Covenant was veiled in the days of the Tabernacle in the wilderness.
(Yes the Ark itself is an intentional type of Christ.)
Just like the Holy of Holy's was veiled behind the curtain.
My question from the outset has not been about His being but about His function as a man compared to Adam pre-fall.
 

sawdust

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What has obedience have to do with who Christ is, if He obeys the Father does that mean He is no longer God. You can try to twist this any way you like but the fact remains that Jesus has always been fully God from all eternity. He never stopped being God for a second.

So you need to come clean and admit that you believe Jesus had bipolar disease, where He lost His divinity while He was in the world and relied on black magic to fool the crowd into thinking He was some mighty one. You just don't make any sense
Because we are not talking about who Christ is, we are talking about what Christ did as a man while on Earth in comparison to Adam pre-fall.

It's obvious you don't understand the question therefore I am going to ignore your comments as they are simply not pertinent to the discussion.

Have a nice day. :)
 

Pilgrimshope

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You've obviously never had a slave, or been one, or you would know that what you wrote here was complete idiocy. How did Onesimus run away from Philemon, if as you claim, "A slave has no autonomy or free will, a slave just trusts and obeys and shuts his mouth. He never ever questions or seeks or argues anything"?
“You've obviously never had a slave, or been one, “

lol Hopefully not or well Have some sort of federal investigation for sure haha
 

Pilgrimshope

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Because we are not talking about who Christ is, we are talking about what Christ did as a man while on Earth in comparison to Adam pre-fall.

It's obvious you don't understand the question therefore I am going to ignore your comments as they are simply not pertinent to the discussion.

Have a nice day. :)
“Because we are not talking about who Christ is, we are talking about what Christ did as a man while on Earth in comparison to Adam”

thats a great way to put it different points of discussion
 

Pilgrimshope

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Jesus himself was forgiving sins.
“But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: that all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
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The twelve and the 70 had power/authority to heal the sick, raise the dead and cast out demons. Having power/authority to do something does not mean the power/authority originates in yourself.

Now you can play your special pleading fallacy. card: "Sure, men have to get power/authority from God. But Jesus didn't because...."
God never gave any of those powers to anybody in the last 2000 years. So they are irrelevant to us
 

cv5

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My question from the outset has not been about His being but about His function as a man compared to Adam pre-fall.
Regardless of His incarnation to manhood, Jesus is, was, and always will be the uncreated One, Who is outside of time, and is the Creator of Satan, and has full authority over him and his fallen host.

Adam had none of these advantages. As far as defeating the evil one is concerned.........game set match it's over.
 

sawdust

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Regardless of His incarnation to manhood, Jesus is, was, and always will be the uncreated One, Who is outside of time, and is the Creator of Satan, and has full authority over him and his fallen host.

Adam had none of these advantages. As far as defeating the evil one is concerned.........game set match it's over.
I appreciate Jesus is the One you say but during the Incarnation He laid aside His right to act as God so He could be as a man in all ways like us yet without sin. He would not have been like us in all ways except for sin if He acted on the basis of His Deity.

You need to compare apples with apples.

Romans 5:15
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
 
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I appreciate Jesus is the One you say but during the Incarnation He laid aside His right to act as God so He could be as a man in all ways like us yet without sin. He would not have been like us in all ways except for sin if He acted on the basis of His Deity.

You need to compare apples with apples.

Romans 5:15
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
So you still think the miracles Jesus performed were by black magic. You say He laid aside His Divinity to act as a man but men can't do miracles
 

cv5

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a man in all ways like us
Except He was also Omniscient God the Aleph Tav.
And......no-one had a birth like His. And no-one had a death like His.

He was incarnated in our likeness, yes. But he appeared similarly to Abraham and Joshua before the incarnation.
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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The question isn't whether He is fully man or fully God. He is both eternally. During the Incarnation He laid aside His right to function as God and therefore I am asking whether he had an advantage in His humanity in comparison to Adam pre-fall.
i contend that if He is God eternally there is no such thing as this "ceasing to functionally be God" notion you suggest.

consider for example you are a bus driver.
you quit your job, your license is revoked, and you cut off your arms and legs so that you cannot possibly drive a bus even if you tried.
are you still a bus driver?
 

sawdust

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So you still think the miracles Jesus performed were by black magic. You say He laid aside His Divinity to act as a man but men can't do miracles
Tell that to Moses and the prophets. They performed miracles on the same basis as Jesus, by the power of the Holy Spirit. Who do you think those men were empowered with? Who do you think came upon Jesus?

John 1:32
Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him.
 

sawdust

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So you still think the miracles Jesus performed were by black magic. You say He laid aside His Divinity to act as a man but men can't do miracles
Please read what I actually say and stop with your baseless accusations. I said He laid aside His right to act as God, I did NOT say he laid aside His Deity.
 

sawdust

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i contend that if He is God eternally there is no such thing as this "ceasing to functionally be God" notion you suggest.

consider for example you are a bus driver.
you quit your job, your license is revoked, and you cut off your arms and legs so that you cannot possibly drive a bus even if you tried.
are you still a bus driver?
Consider myself as a wife and mother. Do I act as a wife to my children or a mother to my husband? Yet, I never stop being both at any given time.
 

sawdust

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Except He was also Omniscient God the Aleph Tav.
And......no-one had a birth like His. And no-one had a death like His.

He was incarnated in our likeness, yes. But he appeared similarly to Abraham and Joshua before the incarnation.
You are still not separating His Deity from His humanity in action. He never stops being God and man but during the Incarnation He stops acting as God.
 

posthuman

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Consider myself as a wife and mother. Do I act as a wife to my children or a mother to my husband? Yet, I never stop being both at any given time.
you are equivalently saying that if anyone does not consider God their God, God is not God.

but divorce your husband - are you still his wife?

delete your account from this website - are you still a member of it?
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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Philippians doesn't say God divested from Himself His deity. it says He humbled Himself. He set aside His glory, not His eternal attributes.