The Law Is Out Of Date And Will "SOON DISAPPEAR"?

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2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,953
113
#1
Hello friendly friends,

I am working my way through Day 356 of the timeline, chronological study plan and in this set of unbelievable Scripture, arises this matter of the Levitical Law and its expiration date. :)

Hebrews 8:13 KJV - 13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 8:13 NLT - 13 When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.

There is plenty of Scripture to demonstrate that the Law has been removed as of the Resurrection of Christ.

I, at this time, believe that the Law has been extinct for a couple thousand years, but I need to make sure that I am, gulp, "right" about this belief.

Thank you to all who participate with the maturity that only comes from the same Love that the Father has for His Holy Son (should the Lord have placed it within you).
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,175
29,476
113
#2
Believers are not under the law. The law is for the lawless (see 1 Timothy 1:9). It
remains to condemn those not saved by grace through faith in the shed righteous
blood of Jesus Christ, Who gave His life as a ransom for many, the any who would
believe, that we may be reconciled to God and attain to life ever after.



Romans 10:4
:)
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,472
13,785
113
#3
Hello friendly friends,

I am working my way through Day 356 of the timeline, chronological study plan and in this set of unbelievable Scripture, arises this matter of the Levitical Law and its expiration date. :)

Hebrews 8:13 KJV - 13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 8:13 NLT - 13 When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.

There is plenty of Scripture to demonstrate that the Law has been removed as of the Resurrection of Christ.

I, at this time, believe that the Law has been extinct for a couple thousand years, but I need to make sure that I am, gulp, "right" about this belief.

Thank you to all who participate with the maturity that only comes from the same Love that the Father has for His Holy Son (should the Lord have placed it within you).
It's worthwhile checking any questionable wording in a few different translations. That way you can (usually) avoid misleading interpretations.

Hebrews was written prior to 70 AD. The writer may or may not have had prophetic foresight, but in hindsight, he was dead right. The Levitical system that "embodied" the Sinai covenant was ended, firmly, with the destruction of the temple and the removal (or death) of all the Jews from Jerusalem.

There's no need to be concerned about a yet-future "disappearance" of the Law; what was prophesied has already occurred.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,953
113
#4
Believers are not under the law. The law is for the lawless (see 1 Timothy 1:9). It
remains to condemn those not saved by grace through faith in the shed righteous
blood of Jesus Christ, Who gave His life as a ransom for many, the any who would
believe, that we may be reconciled to God and attain to life ever after.



Romans 10:4
:)
Thank you! You know, I thought of you when I created this post, along with a couple others. I really want to understand your perspective. Am I understanding you correctly that you believe the Law of Moses is still in effect today?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,175
29,476
113
#5
Thank you! You know, I thought of you when I created this post, along with a couple others. I really want to understand your perspective. Am I understanding you correctly that you believe the Law of Moses is still in effect today?
Not the law of Moses, no, though there are some here who do believe that, and even that those 613 laws
are written on our hearts, which I believe is really pushing into territory none of us should tread as Christians.



John 8:36 plus Romans 8:2 If the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set you free from the law of sin and death.
:)
 

Tall_Timbers

Well-known member
Mar 31, 2023
1,142
1,240
113
68
Cheyenne WY
christiancommunityforum.com
#6
Jesus said, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished” (Matthew 5:17–18). This important statement of our Lord gives us insight into His mission and the character of God’s Word.

Jesus’ declaration that He came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets, not to abolish them, obviously contains two statements in one. There is something Jesus did and something He did not do. At the same time, Jesus emphasized the eternal nature of the Word of God.

Jesus goes out of His way to promote the authority of the Law of God. He did not come to abolish the Law, regardless of what the Pharisees accused Him of. In fact, Jesus continues His statement with a commendation for those who teach the Law accurately and hold it in reverence: “Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:19).

Note the qualities that Jesus attributes to the Word of God, referenced as “the Law and the Prophets”: 1) The Word is everlasting; it will outlast the natural world. 2) The Word was written with intent; it was meant to be fulfilled. 3) The Word possesses plenary authority; even the smallest letter of it is established. 4) The Word is faithful and trustworthy; “everything” it says will be accomplished. No one hearing Jesus’ words in the Sermon on the Mount could doubt His commitment to the Scriptures.

Consider what Jesus did not do in His ministry. In Matthew 5:17, Jesus says that He did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets. In other words, Jesus’ purpose was not to abrogate the Word, dissolve it, or render it invalid. The Prophets will be fulfilled; the Law will continue to accomplish the purpose for which it was given (see Isaiah 55:10–11).

Next, consider what Jesus did do. Jesus says that He came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets. In other words, Jesus’ purpose was to establish the Word, to embody it, and to fully accomplish all that was written. “Christ is the culmination of the law” (Romans 10:4). The predictions of the Prophets concerning the Messiah would be realized in Jesus; the holy standard of the Law would be perfectly upheld by Christ, the strict requirements personally obeyed, and the ceremonial observances finally and fully satisfied.

Jesus Christ fulfilled the Prophets in that, in His first coming alone, He fulfilled hundreds of prophecies concerning Himself (e.g., Matthew 1:22; 13:35; John 19:36; Luke 24:44). Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law in at least two ways: as a teacher and as a doer. He taught people to obey the Law (Matthew 22:35–40; Mark 1:44), and He obeyed the Law Himself (John 8:46; 1 Peter 2:22). In living a perfect life, Jesus fulfilled the moral laws; in His sacrificial death, Jesus fulfilled the ceremonial laws. Christ came not to destroy the old religious system but to build upon it; He came to finish the Old Covenant and establish the New.

Jesus came not to destroy the Law and the Prophets but to fulfill them. In fact, the ceremonies, sacrifices, and other elements of the Old Covenant were “only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves” (Hebrews 10:1). The tabernacle and temple were “holy places made with hands,” but they were never meant to be permanent; they were but “copies of the true things” (Hebrews 9:24, ESV). The Law had a built-in expiration date, being filled as it was with “external regulations applying until the time of the new order” (Hebrews 9:10).

In His fulfillment of the Law and Prophets, Jesus obtained our eternal salvation. No more were priests required to offer sacrifices and enter the holy place (Hebrews 10:8–14). Jesus has done that for us, once and for all. By grace through faith, we are made right with God: “He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross” (Colossians 2:14).

There are some who argue that, since Jesus did not “abolish” the Law, then the Law is still in effect—and still binding on New Testament Christians. But Paul is clear that the believer in Christ is no longer under the Law: “We were held in custody under the Law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the Law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian” (Galatians 3:23–25, BSB). We are not under the Mosaic Law but under “the law of Christ” (see Galatians 6:2).

If the Law is still binding on us today, then it has not yet accomplished its purpose—it has not yet been fulfilled. If the Law, as a legal system, is still binding on us today, then Jesus was wrong in claiming to fulfill it and His sacrifice on the cross was insufficient to save. Thank God, Jesus fulfilled the whole Law and now grants us His righteousness as a free gift. “Know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified” (Galatians 2:16).

https://www.gotquestions.org/abolish-fulfill-law.html
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,953
113
#7
Jesus said, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished” (Matthew 5:17–18). This important statement of our Lord gives us insight into His mission and the character of God’s Word.

Jesus’ declaration that He came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets, not to abolish them, obviously contains two statements in one. There is something Jesus did and something He did not do. At the same time, Jesus emphasized the eternal nature of the Word of God.

Jesus goes out of His way to promote the authority of the Law of God. He did not come to abolish the Law, regardless of what the Pharisees accused Him of. In fact, Jesus continues His statement with a commendation for those who teach the Law accurately and hold it in reverence: “Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:19).

Note the qualities that Jesus attributes to the Word of God, referenced as “the Law and the Prophets”: 1) The Word is everlasting; it will outlast the natural world. 2) The Word was written with intent; it was meant to be fulfilled. 3) The Word possesses plenary authority; even the smallest letter of it is established. 4) The Word is faithful and trustworthy; “everything” it says will be accomplished. No one hearing Jesus’ words in the Sermon on the Mount could doubt His commitment to the Scriptures.

Consider what Jesus did not do in His ministry. In Matthew 5:17, Jesus says that He did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets. In other words, Jesus’ purpose was not to abrogate the Word, dissolve it, or render it invalid. The Prophets will be fulfilled; the Law will continue to accomplish the purpose for which it was given (see Isaiah 55:10–11).

Next, consider what Jesus did do. Jesus says that He came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets. In other words, Jesus’ purpose was to establish the Word, to embody it, and to fully accomplish all that was written. “Christ is the culmination of the law” (Romans 10:4). The predictions of the Prophets concerning the Messiah would be realized in Jesus; the holy standard of the Law would be perfectly upheld by Christ, the strict requirements personally obeyed, and the ceremonial observances finally and fully satisfied.

Jesus Christ fulfilled the Prophets in that, in His first coming alone, He fulfilled hundreds of prophecies concerning Himself (e.g., Matthew 1:22; 13:35; John 19:36; Luke 24:44). Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law in at least two ways: as a teacher and as a doer. He taught people to obey the Law (Matthew 22:35–40; Mark 1:44), and He obeyed the Law Himself (John 8:46; 1 Peter 2:22). In living a perfect life, Jesus fulfilled the moral laws; in His sacrificial death, Jesus fulfilled the ceremonial laws. Christ came not to destroy the old religious system but to build upon it; He came to finish the Old Covenant and establish the New.

Jesus came not to destroy the Law and the Prophets but to fulfill them. In fact, the ceremonies, sacrifices, and other elements of the Old Covenant were “only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves” (Hebrews 10:1). The tabernacle and temple were “holy places made with hands,” but they were never meant to be permanent; they were but “copies of the true things” (Hebrews 9:24, ESV). The Law had a built-in expiration date, being filled as it was with “external regulations applying until the time of the new order” (Hebrews 9:10).

In His fulfillment of the Law and Prophets, Jesus obtained our eternal salvation. No more were priests required to offer sacrifices and enter the holy place (Hebrews 10:8–14). Jesus has done that for us, once and for all. By grace through faith, we are made right with God: “He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross” (Colossians 2:14).

There are some who argue that, since Jesus did not “abolish” the Law, then the Law is still in effect—and still binding on New Testament Christians. But Paul is clear that the believer in Christ is no longer under the Law: “We were held in custody under the Law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the Law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian” (Galatians 3:23–25, BSB). We are not under the Mosaic Law but under “the law of Christ” (see Galatians 6:2).

If the Law is still binding on us today, then it has not yet accomplished its purpose—it has not yet been fulfilled. If the Law, as a legal system, is still binding on us today, then Jesus was wrong in claiming to fulfill it and His sacrifice on the cross was insufficient to save. Thank God, Jesus fulfilled the whole Law and now grants us His righteousness as a free gift. “Know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified” (Galatians 2:16).

https://www.gotquestions.org/abolish-fulfill-law.html
Yes, we can all search the web for answers. What I am attempting to do is not only learn about God's Word, but also build relationships and unity by personally discussing what we believe the Bible has to say. Discussing the Lord's Word should bring us together. :)

I'd love to hear your personal thoughts. :)
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,953
113
#8
Not the law of Moses, no, though there are some here who do believe that, and even that those 613 laws
are written on our hearts, which I believe is really pushing into territory none of us should tread as Christians.



John 8:36 plus Romans 8:2 If the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set you free from the law of sin and death.
:)
I am SOOOO glad to hear that you don't believe the Law is still in effect. I respect what you have to say, so I was a bit concerned about all that I have written over the last year. Whew. Whew. Whew.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,953
113
#9
I am SOOOO glad to hear that you don't believe the Law is still in effect. I respect what you have to say, so I was a bit concerned about all that I have written over the last year. Whew. Whew. Whew.
By the way, I'm certain that if you could create your art into index-card sized and on super shiny card stock, they'd be worth some $$.
 

Wilbur

New member
Apr 30, 2024
25
7
3
#10
Hello friendly friends,

I am working my way through Day 356 of the timeline, chronological study plan and in this set of unbelievable Scripture, arises this matter of the Levitical Law and its expiration date. :)

Hebrews 8:13 KJV - 13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 8:13 NLT - 13 When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.

There is plenty of Scripture to demonstrate that the Law has been removed as of the Resurrection of Christ.

I, at this time, believe that the Law has been extinct for a couple thousand years, but I need to make sure that I am, gulp, "right" about this belief.

Thank you to all who participate with the maturity that only comes from the same Love that the Father has for His Holy Son (should the Lord have placed it within you).
I would encourage you to read 2 Peter chapter 3 and focus on Peter's warning about hard to understand Scripture. We must be careful not to lose our steadfastness over misinterpretation of difficult Scripture.

That said, what does the Word say about this issue? If there is Scripture that contrasts your position, I submit that your interpretation is not complete. In the verse you noted in Hebrews about the old covenant being ready to vanish, shouldn't it say "has vanished" past tense had it expired before Hebrews was written? The question becomes when will it expire. Jesus said when heaven and earth pass away. The law is in full effect until then I believe. Christians are just not under the law.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,953
113
#11
I would encourage you to read 2 Peter chapter 3 and focus on Peter's warning about hard to understand Scripture. We must be careful not to lose our steadfastness over misinterpretation of difficult Scripture.

That said, what does the Word say about this issue? If there is Scripture that contrasts your position, I submit that your interpretation is not complete. In the verse you noted in Hebrews about the old covenant being ready to vanish, shouldn't it say "has vanished" past tense had it expired before Hebrews was written? The question becomes when will it expire. Jesus said when heaven and earth pass away. The law is in full effect until then I believe. Christians are just not under the law.
This is a very interesting way to reply to the OP. Been sitting here for five minutes typing and erasing . . . speechless.
 

Wilbur

New member
Apr 30, 2024
25
7
3
#12
This is a very interesting way to reply to the OP. Been sitting here for five minutes typing and erasing . . . speechless.
I am not quite sure why my response is interesting or why you are speechless. Please let me know if there is anything that I need to clarify or do differently in your view as I learn the ropes as they say. Hopefully nothing I said came across differently than I intended. God bless you.
 

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
10,288
4,332
113
Almost Heaven West Virginia
#13
Hello friendly friends,

I am working my way through Day 356 of the timeline, chronological study plan and in this set of unbelievable Scripture, arises this matter of the Levitical Law and its expiration date. :)

Hebrews 8:13 KJV - 13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 8:13 NLT - 13 When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.

There is plenty of Scripture to demonstrate that the Law has been removed as of the Resurrection of Christ.

I, at this time, believe that the Law has been extinct for a couple thousand years, but I need to make sure that I am, gulp, "right" about this belief.

Thank you to all who participate with the maturity that only comes from the same Love that the Father has for His Holy Son (should the Lord have placed it within you).
It's been replaced with the New Better Covenant. You already mentioned it when you refered to Christ fulfillment by His resurrection.

There's still the application of moral laws which are God's perfect will of right and wrong. Some have criminal penalties, while others not, so there's no need for judicial involvement as in the ones involving things like others rights, property or abominations.

It's a little late here to exercise my brain to look up the proof texts right now so I'll just say it. The ordinances like ......well here you go. Hebrews 9

8The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: 9Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; 10Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. 11But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. 13For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

What are the"carnal ordinances" that are no longer in effect? When the tabernacle was done away by the more perfect tabernacle, the following also was. Here's the key, otherwise we would be the Judaizers that Paul rebuked in Galatians.

Colossians 2
14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. 18Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

How many people do you hear/ read are Sabbath keepers, or judge in meats, holy days?
I just talked to one the other day. He was a preacher who acted like he knew ancient Hebrew and called Jesus Yeshua or some variation. Another quite going to any church because he knew better than all the churches and kept the holy days, so he thought. Others claim to keep the Sabbath and yet violate the many commands that are not convenient to them. They are not sabbath keepers, but want to be judged by the law while they have little idea that they break it constantly.

What they all have in common is that.they need the grace of God expressed in the New Covenant. Even the Sadducees/Pharisees of Jesus time on earth got the Abrahamic covenant wrong. Jesus rebuked them left and right. They rejected Him in large part, yet many want to look not only to them, but also the wicked rabid rabis of today for insight.
My own pastor took a trip to Israel and got enamored and caught up in some of that.
Why on earth would a pastor go to the lost, Christ hating Synagogue of Satan for insight to the Holy Scriptures is ridiculous, but I digress. I'm not claiming you are doing this friend. It's just a very common and growing problem that I see more and more of. Your question is a good one. I hope that sheds a little bit of light on it.

🍵🙂👍📑
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,953
113
#14
I am not quite sure why my response is interesting or why you are speechless. Please let me know if there is anything that I need to clarify or do differently in your view as I learn the ropes as they say. Hopefully nothing I said came across differently than I intended. God bless you.
No, Wilbur . . . It's me. It's my fault. I am burnt out and exhausted. I didn't mean to offend and realize that it was better that I say nothing instead. If I can't encourage a person because of a personal problem, I need to keep the fingers in the shed.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,175
29,476
113
#15
I am not quite sure... why you are speechless.
Suffice to say we are under a new covenant established on better promises .:)

Though I will add: For if that first covenant had been without fault, no place would have been sought for a second.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,953
113
#16
It's been replaced with the New Better Covenant. You already mentioned it when you refered to Christ fulfillment by His resurrection.

There's still the application of moral laws which are God's perfect will of right and wrong. Some have criminal penalties, while others not, so there's no need for judicial involvement as in the ones involving things like others rights, property or abominations.

It's a little late here to exercise my brain to look up the proof texts right now so I'll just say it. The ordinances like ......well here you go. Hebrews 9

8The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: 9Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; 10Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. 11But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. 13For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

What are the"carnal ordinances" that are no longer in effect? When the tabernacle was done away by the more perfect tabernacle, the following also was. Here's the key, otherwise we would be the Judaizers that Paul rebuked in Galatians.

Colossians 2
14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. 18Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

How many people do you hear/ read are Sabbath keepers, or judge in meats, holy days?
I just talked to one the other day. He was a preacher who acted like he knew ancient Hebrew and called Jesus Yeshua or some variation. Another quite going to any church because he knew better than all the churches and kept the holy days, so he thought. Others claim to keep the Sabbath and yet violate the many commands that are not convenient to them. They are not sabbath keepers, but want to be judged by the law while they have little idea that they break it constantly.

What they all have in common is that.they need the grace of God expressed in the New Covenant. Even the Sadducees/Pharisees of Jesus time on earth got the Abrahamic covenant wrong. Jesus rebuked them left and right. They rejected Him in large part, yet many want to look not only to them, but also the wicked rabid rabis of today for insight.
My own pastor took a trip to Israel and got enamored and caught up in some of that.
Why on earth would a pastor go to the lost, Christ hating Synagogue of Satan for insight to the Holy Scriptures is ridiculous, but I digress. I'm not claiming you are doing this friend. It's just a very common and growing problem that I see more and more of. Your question is a good one. I hope that sheds a little bit of light on it.

🍵🙂👍📑
Indeed, all do need the Grace of God expressed in the New Covenant . . . and you were SO CLOSE TO SHARING IT in specific details. Here you go:

Colossians 2:9-15 NLT - 9 For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. 10 So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority. 11 When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. 12 For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. 14 He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. 15 In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."

That is Grace!! Why Pastors do not share the above Seven most unbelievable verses in the Bible . . . is staggering.

Oh, I think I have invest about 14 hours in Hebrews today, and I can confidently say that if a person would study Colossians 2:9-15 for a year, and THEN read Hebrews . . . pft . . . whole a letter. And by the way, I cannot help but feel that the Apostle Paul at minimum, co-authored that written master. One main reason is that he said Himself several times that he was chosen, by God, to explain the Mysterious Plan of God.

Oh my yes! I would love to talk to the Jews about how they perceive their Faith. Man o' man . . . that is a golden opportunity! To be able to openly speak with a Blessed Jew . . . I would never pass up such an opportunity. Nor would I pass up an opportunity to discuss virtually anything with a Satanist. I would love to hear their perspective on Scripture, or anything else, providing that it is reasonable and mature in conveyance. In fact, I am starving to understand what all people believe, unfortunately, there are very few that can hold a textual conversation without getting snotty, so my options for learning are limited. But, in my thinking, the more I speak to others and consider their perspectives, this helps me understand why I believe what I believe that much more.

Cheers!
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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#17
Suffice to say we are under a new covenant established on better promises .:)

Though I will add: For if that first covenant had been without fault, no place would have been sought for a second.
Yes, the NLT!!! lol - Below, check out the most unbelievable concept that I picked up for the first time ever today. Just incredible:'
Hebrews 10:1-2 NLT - 1 The old system under the law of Moses was only a shadow, a dim preview of the good things to come, not the good things themselves. The sacrifices under that system were repeated again and again, year after year, but they were never able to provide perfect cleansing for those who came to worship. 2 If they could have provided perfect cleansing, the sacrifices would have stopped, for the worshipers would have been purified once for all time, and their feelings of guilt would have disappeared."

This is unbelievable. The Law could not provide perfect cleansing, thus the people kept sinning over and over, even the same sins! But if the Law COULD have actually changed a person's conscience, the sacrificial practices would have also stopped. HOLD THE PONIES!!!!

Say what?? If the Law could cleanse the conscience of a person, the practice of animal sacrifice (and other varieties), would come to a stop. Why? Because the conscience would have been cleansed, or, shall we say, Purified. The Holy Effect is obedience.

What is significant about this, is that this is the exact contrast that the author is establishing! The Law could not Purify a heart, but Jesus can, and does, and will continue to do so!! Therefore, Hebrews is becoming the Book that virtually proves the Effectual Nature of Spiritual Circumcision. I cannot believe that I had never seen these things (from Hebrews). It's almost impossible. I cannot believe the layers that this unbelievable, Miraculous Book continues to offer year after year. Our God is so Powerful.
 

selahsays

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May 31, 2023
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#18
How about the 10 commandments? We’re still under them, right? …because certainly we can’t go out and rob a bank or go around killing folks.

I believe it’s the blood ordinances and rituals that came to an end when our Lord Jesus was nailed to the cross. In Him, they were fulfilled.
. . .
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

- Romans 8:1-4


Wow. Amazing. …It’s the Holy Spirit that guides us in our Father’s ways …
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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#19
How about the 10 commandments? We’re still under them, right? …because certainly we can’t go out and rob a bank or go around killing folks.

I believe it’s the blood ordinances and rituals that came to an end when our Lord Jesus was nailed to the cross. In Him, they were fulfilled.
I had to comment after reading this far. Selah . . . this just makes so much sense. You know, it just struck me . . . Gentiles really aren't under the Ten Commandments, as they were not written for us. Abraham was Promised, however, that the Gentiles whom he would figuratively father, would be given the same Faith that he had been given BEFORE he was physically circumcised. The Gentiles were without the Law, thus, as of the Day of Pentecost, they were given the Indwelling and Effectual Laws of the Spirit of Life. These Spiritual Laws etched upon human hearts are Effectual. The Law, however, was not Effectual, for it could not cleanse a person's conscience of the Sinful Nature. The Law could never remove elements of stone from the heart. The Law could never die upon the cross, much less raise itself from the grave. Hebrews is clear that the Law "was." The author refers to the Law as something of the past.

So amazingly, Jews and Gentiles are now able to come directly to God, entering into the Inner Room to enjoy direct worship with the Lord.

Thanks for letting my fingers chirp. These things have become clear, and it helps to convey them again. It's late, gotta go!
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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#20
Indeed, all do need the Grace of God expressed in the New Covenant . . . and you were SO CLOSE TO SHARING IT in specific details. Here you go:

Colossians 2:9-15 NLT - 9 For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. 10 So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority. 11 When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. 12 For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. 14 He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. 15 In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."

That is Grace!! Why Pastors do not share the above Seven most unbelievable verses in the Bible . . . is staggering.

Oh, I think I have invest about 14 hours in Hebrews today, and I can confidently say that if a person would study Colossians 2:9-15 for a year, and THEN read Hebrews . . . pft . . . whole a letter. And by the way, I cannot help but feel that the Apostle Paul at minimum, co-authored that written master. One main reason is that he said Himself several times that he was chosen, by God, to explain the Mysterious Plan of God.

Oh my yes! I would love to talk to the Jews about how they perceive their Faith. Man o' man . . . that is a golden opportunity! To be able to openly speak with a Blessed Jew . . . I would never pass up such an opportunity. Nor would I pass up an opportunity to discuss virtually anything with a Satanist. I would love to hear their perspective on Scripture, or anything else, providing that it is reasonable and mature in conveyance. In fact, I am starving to understand what all people believe, unfortunately, there are very few that can hold a textual conversation without getting snotty, so my options for learning are limited. But, in my thinking, the more I speak to others and consider their perspectives, this helps me understand why I believe what I believe that much more.

Cheers!
Wow. I had some serious grammatical errors in that mess above. Good grief.