God and Time

Really Paul?
Let‘s just shoot some pool instead and say a few jokes.
Did you hear about the dull pencil? It was pointless.

How do you come up with the claim that a universe is not anything? It would clearly be a very large unmoving arrangement of things.

When I said "reality in stasis", iI was thinking of a universe of unmoving things.

If you can't interpret the clear words of scripture without your interpretation having the approval of scientists for your interpretation, you are in a bit of a bind. Fortunately, I am not so bound. It seems pretty obvious that if there existed a perfectly static reality, there would be no way to measure the time passing in that motionless state. But as soon as some movement happens, there is a before and an after, and intervals of time become measurable. The amount of time the reality had been in stasis would not be definable, but it had been in stasis for some undefinite period of time nevertheless. It's not difficult.I had in mind a universe of things that are not moving. It was supposed to be a thought experiment considering whether there would be time, if the universe existed but was static.

The argument has to do with the creation of time, and that having its beginning in creation. Before creation, what existed?

You're giving me far too much credit. I'm just stream of consciousness at this point.

No, the argument has to do with whether motion/change is necessary to discern time, or the absence of motion/change means there is no time.

Thought experiment: Imagine a universe in motion. There is measurable time, because there are various rates of change relative to various regular rhythms in the system. God stops everything in its tracks such that, had everything continued as normal, the earth would have completed one revolution on its axis. Every molecule, atom, electron, electromagnetic wave and photon, was paused. The God restarts everything in its usual motion. Did time pass when everything was static?

I would say, for God, yes. Although nothing that had been paused would be able to know that everything had stopped. It may well be that motion is required to provide evidence of the passage of time, but since absence of evidence for the passage of time, namely absence of motion/change, is not evidence for the absence of the passage of time, we cannot conclude that time did not pass while there was no change/motion happening to measure or evidence the passage of time.

Since God saw the universe change from moving, to pausing and back to moving again, God saw time passing throughout the transitions, even though nothing in the universe could recognise time passing, because nothing other than God registered the change.needed to evidence time passing.

Hence, it is quite reasonable to believe that time can occur without any motion or change occurring in creation.

No, the argument has to do with whether motion/change is necessary to discern time, or the absence of motion/change means there is no time.

Thought experiment: Imagine a universe in motion. There is measurable time, because there are various rates of change relative to various regular rhythms in the system. God stops everything in its tracks such that, had everything continued as normal, the earth would have completed one revolution on its axis. Every molecule, atom, electron, electromagnetic wave and photon, was paused. The God restarts everything in its usual motion. Did time pass when everything was static?

I would say, for God, yes. Although nothing that had been paused would be able to know that everything had stopped. It may well be that motion is required to provide evidence of the passage of time, but since absence of evidence for the passage of time, namely absence of motion/change, is not evidence for the absence of the passage of time, we cannot conclude that time did not pass while there was no change/motion happening to measure or evidence the passage of time.

Since God saw the universe change from moving, to pausing and back to moving again, God saw time passing throughout the transitions, even though nothing in the universe could recognise time passing, because nothing other than God registered the change.needed to evidence time passing.

Hence, it is quite reasonable to believe that time can occur without any motion or change occurring in creation.

But everything didn't stop except the means of recording time. Because a watch stops working, time doesn't stop.

If the universe is the clock that stops ?

Think of a sun dial before clocks existed if that relationship didn’t exist between earth and sun then tell me what is time ?

My point is that time continues whether or not the instruments to record its passage are actually recording it. Did Joshua continue to age while the sun stood still? Are heavenly bodies the only record of time?

But everything didn't stop except the means of recording time. Because a watch stops working, time doesn't stop.

Right you’re talking about a clock a time keeping device . Ask yourself what this is based upon when man made a clock . It’s based upon the movement in the universe that’s how clocks keep perfect time

your talking about a man made time keeping device copying the lords time creating device

does God grow older ? Or is he without beginning or end so therefore there is no passage of time ?

He’s trying to say, “I feel more like I do now than when I got here.”

I agree God doesn't change. And time was created. Like I said at the beginning...I'm just thinking out loud.

does God grow older ? Or is he without beginning or end so therefore there is no passage of time ?

The argument has to do with the creation of time, and that having its beginning in creation. Before creation, what existed?

No, the argument has to do with whether motion/change is necessary to discern time, or the absence of motion/change means there is no time.

Thought experiment: Imagine a universe in motion. There is measurable time, because there are various rates of change relative to various regular rhythms in the system. God stops everything in its tracks such that, had everything continued as normal, the earth would have completed one revolution on its axis. Every molecule, atom, electron, electromagnetic wave and photon, was paused. The God restarts everything in its usual motion. Did time pass when everything was static?

I would say, for God, yes. Although nothing that had been paused would be able to know that everything had stopped. It may well be that motion is required to provide evidence of the passage of time, but since absence of evidence for the passage of time, namely absence of motion/change, is not evidence for the absence of the passage of time, we cannot conclude that time did not pass while there was no change/motion happening to measure or evidence the passage of time.

Since God saw the universe change from moving, to pausing and back to moving again, God saw time passing throughout the transitions, even though nothing in the universe could recognise time passing, because nothing other than God registered the change.needed to evidence time passing.

Hence, it is quite reasonable to believe that time can occur without any motion or change occurring in creation.

The creator

The fallacy in His argument is that only God is self-existing...I am that I am. Nothing exists apart from God...in Him all things have their being. This is obviously true of time as well. It too has a beginning with God. But I do find the topic fascinating.
If we keep going, we will end up considering whether God created ex nihilo or ex Deo.