Predestination is misunderstood...

Its not his lawn...

There is only one lawn I am interested in....

1 Cor 6:1-3
6:1 If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints? 2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!
NIV

You can have that now

I don't think I said that. As far as I'm concerned the "sons" are those who relate to those teaching that Jesus is doing the works of the Devil.

We most likely need someone well versed in Greek grammar and syntax to see whether the demons or the sons are the subject of verse 19.

Judge the world when Jesus assigns us to reign with Him for the Millennium. It won't be for their final judgment.

Right now we are having a hard time with each other because there are too much bad and misleading teachings
to be found. When Paul wrote 1 Cor 6:1-3 ? The apostles were in control. Everyone was working with good sound teaching.
Today its become a free for all with believers in too many cases.

There stands the problem.

Right....

And?

Take one. Its free....
........

many here have a sure knowledge of God but knowledge that comes by simple mental assent is not the knowledge that the Scriptures speak of that God grants to His people. True knowledge in God is based in a sincere love to Him and His people. Seek Him and His truth in this love and He guarantees to lead you all the way.

Jer_29:13 And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.

Agreed, 1 Cor 15:1-4 was written to those who knew who Christ is and it is foolish to talk to people about Christ without describing who He is and declaring Him to be truly God and truly Man. Therefore no one can truly know Christ unless they are granted to first know who God and man truly are.

PTS is Providence Theological Seminary and they have much for you to read about NCT on their resources page below.

NCT Resources

There is currently no uniform NCT confession and not all NCT adherents including myself agree with all things below but there is a general agreement on most things.

I would agree with most things he says and highly recommend his ministry and messages found below to anyone. If only there were more men with passion like his!

David H J Gay Ministry

No problem, stuff happens.

Agreed, meditating on the word always finds interesting things cropping up.

Absolutely agree!

Thanks @Rufus for connecting the 3 of us in this.

BTW, @maxamir, @Rufus was the one I mentioned that pointed me to NCT after I'd been on an island in my own studies for 16 years working out of what I'd been trained in.

It's not an unwillingness to share. These forums are filled with a lot of antagonism. It's an unwillingness to do a lot of work until if and when I think someone is willing to truly join in and collaborate and have a serious discussion. Typically I find a lack of desire or ability to even get into Scripture in depth in context.



OK, then I'll take it as initiative. I think I have pointed you to a few things to consider. Again, I can lay out everything I see but when I see what looks to be a certain level of disagreement or unwillingness to consider other views, then what's the point of doing more work?

I'll leave all of this type of discussion here for now. I'll begin to lay out what I see in Luke in another post.

I posted the reference because I found the theory interesting. I did not think this before but now am considering it as I look at the passages again. I haven't looked at them in any depth for ages. I never thought and do not think demons judging is correct. I'll explain why when I begin to post with @reneweddaybyday. Please join in.

you've heard of the website cross to crown dot org? lots of NCT material there, i believe.

Sure, as if you and many others haven't gone off-topic. Do some homework and look back to see I joined a topic of discussion and did not start it. If you're going to be policing, consider doing so justly across the spectrum.

I've found the Ignore function works well if you'd prefer.

Thanks! I was wondering what orientation @maxamir had. I've reviewed some of the NCT info., found a fair amount I agree with, found the Law of Christ graphic well done to the degree I reviewed it, have had some email discussions with a few who teach it and agree with it to whatever degree, and will see where my thinking goes from there. Some of its thinking re: Law has especially been interesting.

Do you agree with NCT?

it all has to do with the amount of continuity/discontinuity between the Old Testament and the New, if i recall.

i'm not dispensational by any means. i listened to John Reisinger years back, but i haven't thought about it in quite a while. i'll have to peer into it again before i can answer your question. maybe the website i referenced can help us both.

A couple things to get out of the way first:

As I understand you, your question above concerns "their" in Luke 11:17. I'm going to put some notes in parenthesis. If I add a word, I'll italicize and underline it. If I disagree with the way a word is translated and think it meaningful to whatever degree, I'll strike it. If I bracket some words, it's because they are added by the translator. I typically use the NKJ because I'm used to it. I'll get into the Greek if I think it's necessary. If you want something better defined, let me know.

NKJ Luke 11:14-17 And He (Jesus) was casting out a demon, and it was mute. So it was, when the demon had gone out, that the mute spoke; and the multitudes (crowds) marveled. 15 But some of them (some from the crowds) said, "He (Jesus) casts out demons by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons." 16 and others (from the crowds), testing Him (Jesus), sought they (others from the crowds) were seeking from Him a sign from heaven. 17 But He (Jesus), knowing their (could be the others from the crowd who were testing Jesus - could also include those from the crowds alleging Jesus was casting out demons by Beelzebub) thoughts, said to them (from the crowd): "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and a house [divided against] a house falls (literally "a house upon a house falls" - a house falls upon a house - kind of like a house of cards).

"Their" is those from the crowd. Since it says Jesus "knowing their thoughts" I might go with "their" being the ones who were testing Him. IOW, Jesus knew what they were doing in testing Him by seeking a sign from Him. "Their" could also be referring all of them, His accusers, and the ones seeking the sign, and even most to all of the crowds. Jesus is speaking among a crowd of people and in effect, He's speaking to all of them, and the issue was, who is Jesus?

The reason I struck "sought" and changed it to "they were seeking" is because the original wording is painting a picture that this is a very active situation and they were continually seeking this from Jesus. It's not a picture of a few who sought, but more of a dynamic crowd situation with some chaos typical in crowds. The dynamic is some wondering if He is Messiah (seeking a sign) and some accusing Him of being demonic, a false Messiah, a false prophet, etc...

If you search through the chapters leading up to this, you'll see that up through Luke 9:20 Jesus is not letting people spread that He is Messiah/Christ. All this chaos in part is because His notoriety had been spreading (Luke 9:11) and people were wondering and likely and lively debating who He was.