Election teaches that salvation comes from the Lord.

A spiritually dead person cannot comprehend/accept anything spiritual -just as a physically dead person comprehend/accept anything physical. In believing they do they demonstrate they don't. Before being saved we all were spiritually dead. Dead means dead - it is not just a figure of speech, hence the doctrine of being born-again.

look brother

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭19:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4, 6-7, 11-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Okay, so we’re spiritually dead before we get saved. We’re not actually dead dead. When I got saved I was physically alive, The guy that witnessed to me was alive. I was actually mad when he witnessed to me because I was brought up in church, but I never surrendered my life to Jesus How can you confess with your mouth if you’re physically dead? What’s your point again?

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am a chief.
1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ mightvshow forth all lonsuferring, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlastin.

The pattern: believe on him to life everlasting.

Your welcome.

we need to learn to start functioning in the Spirit? Why does that sound likes works?
it actually sounds like you might be talking about sanctification? And if so, the process is monergistic. If we had any part of it, it would result in failure.

No hangups here. 🙂

It was to make clear that there are two existence realms that need to be taken into consideration when discussing salvation: 1) the spiritual realm, and 2) the physical realm. The Bible uses the same names for many things that exist within both realms, such as life, death, birth, heart, mind, hearing, seeing, understanding, wisdom, discernment, etc. Both realms are real, both need to be understood individually, and in conjunction with each other.
The receiving of new spiritual heart must precede one's spiritual conversion for it to be a true conversion. God informs us that it is He alone who gives that new heart along with a new spirit (spiritual life) upon salvation. Therefore, until someone is born again and receives that new heart and spirit, they remain spiritually dead. Man's intellectual wisdom and choices in the physical realm do not manifest into the receiving of a new spiritual heart, but the receiving of a new spiritual heart does manifest unto him as new spiritual wisdom in the physical realm. So, should someone believe they have given to themselves spiritual life by their intellect, choices or actions, by that belief, they demonstrate that they haven't received it.
I was (in a prior post), trying to use an analogy to convey that just as a physically dead person is oblivious to comprehend the wisdom of the physical realm, so too is the spiritually dead oblivious to comprehend the wisdom of the spiritual realm. Everyone, until becoming born again, is spiritually dead. Notice in the below verses we can see that we all start being dead spiritually, yet while being dead spiritually (and oblivious), God gives spiritual life, making us born again through nothing but His will and intervention which He gives to those chosen to receive it, and brings them from the one spiritual state (dead) to the other spiritual state (alive): spiritually speaking, we were stone cold dead, yet He makes us alive: from death instantaneously and directly unto spiritual life with no contribution to it possible from/by us.
Hope this makes sense - didn't do too good a job explaining it.


[Eph 2:1 KJV]
1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;
[Col 2:13 KJV]
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

How are we made alive in Christ?
Ephesians 1:12 ...first trusted in Christ.
Ephisains 1:13 ...after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with the holy Spirit of promise

Those who trusted Christ and his gospel by faith are saved.
Ephesians 1: 15...after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus...

Before salvation... Does one need to be "spiritual" to know he is a sinner?

And knowing that the Bible is the Inspired Word of God, God must give revelation to the reader for true understanding. Many verses read a certain way so it's easy to say it means this. But if you are in tune with the Holy Spirit you could be taught by God Himself it actually does not mean what the words we read say at all. So having the Holy Spirit opening our eyes is more important than using our minds to think we know what is the meaning to what we read.

Only sometimes?

Yes, they need to be spiritual. To know one is a sinner one must first know and take to heart God's spiritual law, the violation of which makes someone a sinner in God's eyes. If someone doesn't know and trust in Christ alone as Saviour from the heart, then they remain in violation of God's law and therefore they are not spiritual and do not know that they are true sinners. Everyone comes into this world as true spiritual sinners.
People may realize they have violated earthly, carnal, temporal laws, but the violation of those laws are not the laws
that will bring eternal damnation unto them. The violation Christ brings eternal damnation, and so by that measure, they do not know they are sinners. Only God can make us spiritual - to understand the sin of the violation of His law - that its violation makes us true sinners and that He alone makes us not the violators of His law.

I think I might not have phrased my prior post correctly relative to your question. Allow be to rephrase now.
No one can be spiritual before being saved, so they cannot know they are sinners in God's eyes regarding the violation of His law.

Exodus 10:16-23

Then Pharaoh called for Moses and Aaron in haste; and he said,
I have sinned against the LORD your God, and against you.
Now therefore forgive, I pray thee, my sin only this once, and
intreat the LORD your God, that he may take away from me
this death only.



Pharaoh who was never saved...
Never regenerated...
He knew he was a sinner!

My point still stands.

Wrong sin. Because Pharaoh was not elect and unsaved, he did not/could not comprehend the sin that
would bring him eternal damnation. He knew carnal, temporal sin, but not the sin of eternal consequence.
There is only one sin having eternal consequence and only Jesus can save anyone from that.

Its to be? Tip toe through the TULIPs with you?

What you are doing is sin..... Sin is sin!

No, it's not. The penalty of the sin against Christ is eternal damnation.

[Rom 8:2 KJV] 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

The penalty of sin is "spiritual" death. Not physical death. Not eternal damnation.




Many dead sinners walk around without keeling over.
Because many sinners walk around being dead to God.



Again...


In order to be saved one first needs to know he is a sinner. That's all.
The solution is Jesus Christ.

God made the Gospel for even simpletons to understand.
Because, simpletons need to get saved with everyone else.

Do you realize that?