He that believes and is not water baptised is saved

It seems the argument against the necessity of water baptism must come from elsewhere to make it true.

It’s always best to read above and below a verse to understand the context.

It’s always best to read above and below a verse to understand the context. If you had read the verses before verse 11 you would have seen that John the Baptist was talking specifically to the Pharisees and Saducees when he talked about Jesus baptizing with the Holy Spirit and fire. Verses 7-10. He even called them a brood of vipers. So you are saying that Jesus was going to baptize THEM. A brood of vipers with the Holy Spirit? Again you have “Cherry picked” 1 verse, taken it out of its context and mis applied it. It’s true that when Jesus came, he baptized some people with the Holy Spirit —He baptized 11apistles and he baptized Cornelius and all of those who were in his house. I think that qualifies as “some people.” But John was not speaking specifically to the to the general population here but to a specific group of people and all he is doing is relating information about the Messiah. He is not saying the ones there at that time were the ones who were going to receive the Holy Spirit baptism—certainly not the Pharisees and Saducees.

There are 5 different baptisms mentioned in the New Testament. They all served a purpose but all but one has ceased.
Baptism 1) the baptism of John. It was a baptism of repentance and was for getting the people ready for the Messiah. Mark 1:1-4
Baptism 2)the miraculous baptism of the Holy
Spirit. Acts 2 and Acts 10. It was never intended for everyone. Only occurred twice in the New Testament. It was used as a “sign” of approval from God. Heb. 2:3-4, Mark 16:20.
Baptism 3) baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins. Acts 2:38. This is the one baptism in Ephesians 4:4. In Acts 18 there were some disciples of Christ who had only been baptized with John’s baptism and had to be re-baptized in the name of Jesus. John’s baptism was done away once the apostles began baptizing in the name if Jesus. John’s baptism was only temporary.
Baptism 4) the baptism of suffering; only Jesus experienced this as He was crucified on the cross. Mark 10:38. Luke 12:50
Baptism 5) the baptism of fire. This is eternal punishment. Matthew 3
The only baptism that remains today is water baptism in the name of Jesus.

There are 5 different baptisms mentioned in the New Testament. They all served a purpose but all but one has ceased.
Baptism 1) the baptism of John. It was a baptism of repentance and was for getting the people ready for the Messiah. Mark 1:1-4
Baptism 2)the miraculous baptism of the Holy
Spirit. Acts 2 and Acts 10. It was never intended for everyone. Only occurred twice in the New Testament. It was used as a “sign” of approval from God. Heb. 2:3-4, Mark 16:20.
Baptism 3) baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins. Acts 2:38. This is the one baptism in Ephesians 4:4. In Acts 18 there were some disciples of Christ who had only been baptized with John’s baptism and had to be re-baptized in the name of Jesus. John’s baptism was done away once the apostles began baptizing in the name if Jesus. John’s baptism was only temporary.
Baptism 4) the baptism of suffering; only Jesus experienced this as He was crucified on the cross. Mark 10:38. Luke 12:50
Baptism 5) the baptism of fire. This is eternal punishment. Matthew 3
The only baptism that remains today is water baptism in the name of Jesus.

Context:

5Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, 6And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

You are incorrect.

Those in the audience were people from
-Jerusalem
-All Judea
-All the region around Jordan

Some of them trusted Christ as their Savior.
The fake preachers from of the Pharisees and Sadducees that showed up would be baptized too!
Jesus baptized them in fire and they are there yet today.

Consequences of believing and teaching a False, incorrect gospel.

Baptism into hell.

It sounds like you don't believe Christ can wash away sin by shedding the holy spirit of God upon you.If that is the case then I'm sorry you have not received the holy spirit.
The holy spirit comes in Jesus name ,so when someone is Baptised,that is to say washed clean in the holy spirit,they are Baptised in Jesus name .
That is the only time the name is Jesus is applied to a person.The name of Jesus is not applied to a person from water.It comes from God.

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you



When someone is Baptised in the holy Ghost by God. They are Baptised into Christ. They are Baptised in his name.

So your saying the baptism of the gentiles in the holy spirit was only for gentiles?

Acts 10
15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.



You don't believe God baptises anyone anymore in the holy spirit?

Many people see it that way, but what is in view is spiritual birth. And this is in keeping with Acts 2 where the word is preached and the Spirit pricked the hearts of those who believed.

There are 5 different baptisms mentioned in the New Testament. They all served a purpose but all but one has ceased.
Baptism 1) the baptism of John. It was a baptism of repentance and was for getting the people ready for the Messiah. Mark 1:1-4
Baptism 2)the miraculous baptism of the Holy
Spirit. Acts 2 and Acts 10. It was never intended for everyone. Only occurred twice in the New Testament. It was used as a “sign” of approval from God. Heb. 2:3-4, Mark 16:20.
Baptism 3) baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins. Acts 2:38. This is the one baptism in Ephesians 4:4. In Acts 18 there were some disciples of Christ who had only been baptized with John’s baptism and had to be re-baptized in the name of Jesus. John’s baptism was done away once the apostles began baptizing in the name if Jesus. John’s baptism was only temporary.
Baptism 4) the baptism of suffering; only Jesus experienced this as He was crucified on the cross. Mark 10:38. Luke 12:50
Baptism 5) the baptism of fire. This is eternal punishment. Matthew 3
The only baptism that remains today is water baptism in the name of Jesus.

Me, I am learning and not picking cherries of scripture, I am bringing it all together cohesively, trusting my PaPa, in risen /Son to teach me what is tote truth over the cherry pickings of scriptures. Thanks

God did the speaking through the disciples on Pentecost, they were vessels only. Remembering Christ as risen, hung out for forty days, explaining to them why it all had to be this way, through his willing death for us to be saved in the born again life to be given by his Father to us in the Holy Spirit of papa. Came to earth on Pentecost, entered into the willing discipled believers, they preached, it was there voices, yet it was God doing the speaking through them that day on Pentecost in "Unknown languages to them. Yet known to the hearers, that heard My Son is Risen, alive for you to stand in, believe, receive and see
We have an amazing God. Then the disciples heard back confirmation in their own language Hebrew, we believe. One accord, no confusion. God is not the author of confusion, Evil is

Peter saw it, they believed and amazed, and thought okay let's get water Baptized. Then in Acts 10-11 Peter experiences, the gift again from God to the Gentiles, Tells his brethren of it, about the Gentiles getting the gift of God, with no rituals, no have to's, no water Baptism, but afterwards. This gift was just given them as is given us. Excited over it. Loving it, yet his brethren did not love it, seeing Peter went into the Gentile house unlawfully. Stuck on law, so aware of the Law, doubt was always in it and so they could not behave properly, being in doubt constantly. Wg=hich today is still gong on in people, Doubt.

Peter was in Galatia later on, and was eating with the Gentiles outside of his Jewish law customs. He heard his brethren were coming to spy out the freedom that was given. So Peter in fear again ( as was when Jesus was taken to be crucified and denied God then, as told he would by God, yet forgiven by God) Removed himself from eating with the Gentiles in fear. Peter was to learn more still. Yet fear was keeping him captivated over his brethren and their thought(s) on this new freedom given. The, want to be liked by those close to you.

Paul came and saw, what Peter did and rebuked Peter for doing it, for not standing up boldly in this gift given them, by god through risen Son for them. I am sure Peter did not like that, especially when rebuked in front of the Galatian people.
Then Peter wrote in 2 Peter at the end, he saw it was good for Paul to rebuke him, seeing the wisdom then given Paul as good, for him to become bold in standing up for the risen Son and Father for him to people, without fitting, just standing in truth.

2 Peter 3:15-16
King James Version
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Not sure why you are sharing this, nor whether by telling me you don't cherry pick verses you are suggesting I do. At any rate, grace and peace.

Not sure why you are sharing this, nor whether by telling me you don't cherry pick verses you are suggesting I do. At any rate, grace and peace.

Yes, I agree that there were many people there from all over. But when John described the messiah to these people as one who was going to baptize with the Spirit and with fire, that is a description of His work and since He does not tell us specifically WHO will receive these things you cannot jump to the conclusion that it was for everybody. John did not give us any restrictions or qualifications about who was going to get these rewards and punishments. But we know that EVERYONE did not get these from God, in fact, when we read the scriptures we see that very few people ever got any spiritual gifts. And in all of the New Tesrament there were only 2 occasions where anyone was BAPTISED in a miraculous way with the Holy Spirit. Do Christian’s have the Holy Spirit living in them? Yes, definitely, according to Acts 2:38 and 1 Cor. 3:16. But they did not get it in a miraculous “baptism.” Only 2 times did that ever happen.

We must be guided by what the Bible says —not by our ideas or feelings. I know I have the Holy Spirit living in me because I of Acts 2:38 and 1 Cor.


No, I do not, and let me show you from the scriptures why. Study your New Testament and you will see that Holy Spirit baptism was miraculous and only happened 2 times in the New Testament. Once, on the Apostles in Acts 2. This was a “sign”. To get the attention of the crowd of Jews there and since it was a miracle it proved to them that these apostles were from God. It confirmed their message as being from God. It served a PURPOSE.
The second time it fell on the GENTILES in Acts 10. It also served a PURPOSE then. For 1500 years the Jews had been taught that people from any other nations were unclean” Not ina fleshly way but SOCIALLY. Gentiles were looked down on. Peter himself alludes to this fact when he came to Cornelius’s house. He said, “ you know how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation…” verse 28 But the law of Christ was replacing the old Jewish law given by Moses and Christ’s new law of faith, was for EVERYONE. It was going to include gentiles. But first, God had to teach this to Peter and that was the purpose of the vision Peter saw on the rooftop. The Jews also, had dietary restrictions. There were certain animals that they could not eat. They would have been “ unclean” to the Jews. The word “unclean” would mean “unlawful.” And so in the vision were all kinds of unclean animals. God tells Peter to kill and eat. Peter refuses and says he has never eaten anything “unclean” or unlawful. That’s when God makes His point—that which I have cleaned, you are not to call unclean. This is all for the purpose of getting Peter to understand that God has LIFTED the restrictions on people and animals that had been in place for hundreds of years. In fact, when Peter comes to Cornelius he says, “ God has shown me that I should not call any man COMMON or UNCLEAN. Peter got the point! Now, I say all this to show you WHY the baptism of the Holy Spirit had to fall on Cornelius and his house. There were Jews with Peter. They also needed to know that God has taken away the restrictions that were placed on Gentiles. Do you think they would have believed Peter if he just told them that? Maybe not, at least not everyone. So God had the baptism of the Holy Spirit fall miraculously on the gentiles in that house for the purpose of proving that the gospel of Christ was also for them—not just for the Jews. Up until this time no one had it but the Jews. This is easily shown by following the story. Verse 44-46- when the Hews that came with Peter saw the Holy Spirit being poured out on the gentiles, they were ASTONISHED!! The purpose of the Holy Spirit baptism was NOT to save them but it was a “sign” that they were not alienated from the gospel of Christ. This was a very important lesson the Jews had to learn because they were the ones who would be taking the gospel to the gentiles. They would not have done this if they thought the gentiles were still unclean to them and to God. Chapter 11 proves this ver well. In verse 3, the Jews contended with Peter because he had gone into a gentiles house and are with them. But when Peter explained that Gid had baptized them with tge Holy Spirit then They UNDERSTOOD—“then God had granted to the gentiles repentance to life.” That was the purpose of baptizing them with Holy Spirit baptism. It was. “Sign” to the Jews. Then Peter commanded them to be baptized and we have the first gentile Christian’s in the church. Do you see what God did? He gave the miraculous baptism of the Holy Spirit once to the Jews in Acts 2 and once to the gentiles in Acts 10. And that’s all!! We, Christians, get the Holy Spirit today—not miraculously, but when we are baptised into the name of Jesus. Acts 2:38 says it is a “gift” that God gives us when we obey Him in baptism. I Corinthians 3:16 says He lives in us. Other Christian’s in the New Testament received spiritual gifts from the apostles but not a miraculous “baptism.” They had the Holy Spirit living in them but not by a “miraculous baptism.” If you can find another “miraculous baptism” in the New Testament besides these two, please let me know. But everytime you see the word baptize does not mean that it is miraculous.
The miraculous baptisms in the New Testament were completely from God. The ones receiving it were NOT seeking it; they were not praying for it; they were not expecting it, they were not asking for it . It came upon them SUDDENLY, UNEXPECTANTLY, And totally at God’s discretion. That’s not what you see many times today from people who claim to have had it. You see people praying for it, pleading, crying and begging God for it. For what purpose?? When the last apostle died, all spiritual gifts ceased.

It sounds like you don't believe Christ can wash away sin by shedding the holy spirit of God upon you.If that is the case then I'm sorry you have not received the holy spirit.
The holy spirit comes in Jesus name ,so when someone is Baptised,that is to say washed clean in the holy spirit,they are Baptised in Jesus name .
That is the only time the name is Jesus is applied to a person.The name of Jesus is not applied to a person from water.It comes from God.

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you



When someone is Baptised in the holy Ghost by God. They are Baptised into Christ. They are Baptised in his name.

I would have to see a scripture that says Holy Spirit baptism takes away sin and one that says Holy Spirit baptism puts us into Christ. Are you ASSUMING that every time you read the word baptize, it means Holy Spirit baptism? Then you would be wrong. not to mention presumptuous. In Acts 2:38, when Peter said those Jews were to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins, it was not miraculous Holy Spirit baptism. Look at the only 2 cases where Holy Spirit baptism happened. Man has no part in giving it or getting Holy Spirit baptism. It was at God’s discretion. Man was never told to go get it. Or go do it. Both times in Acts 2 and Acts 10 it was unexpected and not sought. Not asked for. It was not something you could Do on your own and it was not your decision to get it or give it. Water baptism in The name of Jesus is the baptism that you can choose to do. You can’t just choose to get Holy Spirit baptism. God decided who got it and who did not. No one could just go out and GET Holy SPIRIT baptism JUST BECAUSE you want it.
Look at Acts 2:38 if that was Holy Spirit baptism that they got, then why did Peter say they would get the Holy Spirit when they were baptized for the remission of sins??? Didn’t they already have it when they were baptized with it. You see that makes no sense. It would have to be water baptism that is for the forgiveness of sins. Holy Spirit baptism is not in this verse. So HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM DOES NOT FORGIVE SINS. Only water baptism does that—so says Acts 2:38. Now, you give me scripture that tells me it does.
Everytime people were told to be baptized, it was something they could do; it was their choice; they could do it immediately like every one in Acts did—the jailer did it in the middle of the night, immediately when HE DECIDED to do it. Men did not have control over Holy Spirit baptism. They did not decide whether they wanted it or not; they did not decide if they got it it not, they did not decide WHEN they woujd get it. You see? That is not Holy Spirit baptism as God has shown us in Acts 2 and Acts 10. Those Jews and gentiles didn’t KNOW THEY WERE GOING TO GET IT; or IF they were going to get it; they did not know WHEN they were going to get it. They didn’t have a choice. It was totally all God’s doing. You couldn’t just go out and get it anytime you wanted it. That description of Holy Spirit baptism is not scriptural. That’s not the description of Holy Spirit baptism in the Bible. Water baptism in the Bible is what people could CHOOSE to do or not. It was a command that you could do immediately, without praying for it, and YOU CONTROLLED —not God. Holy Spirit baptism was all controlled by God—not man. So in Romans 6 when Paul says we are baptized into Christ, he is talking about water baptism. He says we are “buried” with him. Just like the eunuch was in water in Acts 8. There is no mistaking that was water baptism because it says that they both went down into the water and he baptized him. He was saved after that. That was all he had to do. Phillip went away and the eunuch went on his way rejoicing. There was no Holy Spirit baptism there. When Peter said baptism saves you in 1 Peter 3:21 it was water baptism he was talking about because he compares it to the WATER of the flood. If it is WATER BAPTISM that saves us then when Ananias told Paul in Acts 22:16 to arise and be baptized and wash away your sins, he was talking about WATER BAPTISM because we have already seen in Acts 2:38 that is what water baptism does and Peter tells us WATER BAPTISM saves us.
When Jesus gave the command to go into all the world and preach the gospel, to his apostles, he told them to Baptize people. THE APOSTLES COULD NOT BAPTIZE WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM. Only God could do that. So I know Jesus is not telling them to go into all the workd and baptize people with Holy Spirit baptism. He is telling them to GO OUT INTO ALL THE WORLD AND BAPTIZE PEOPLE WITH WATER BAPTISM. Because that was all they could do. It was not possible for men to baptize with Holy Spirit baptism. That is God’s work.
So everytime you read the word “baptize” in scripture, it is water baptism unless the scripture says different as it did in Acts2 and Acts 10.

Yes, I agree that there were many people there from all over. But when John described the messiah to these people as one who was going to baptize with the Spirit and with fire, that is a description of His work and since He does not tell us specifically WHO will receive these things you cannot jump to the conclusion that it was for everybody. John did not give us any restrictions or qualifications about who was going to get these rewards and punishments. But we know that EVERYONE did not get these from God, in fact, when we read the scriptures we see that very few people ever got any spiritual gifts. And in all of the New Tesrament there were only 2 occasions where anyone was BAPTISED in a miraculous way with the Holy Spirit. Do Christian’s have the Holy Spirit living in them? Yes, definitely, according to Acts 2:38 and 1 Cor. 3:16. But they did not get it in a miraculous “baptism.” Only 2 times did that ever happen.

The visible manifestation happened on those occasions. We can only speculate why it was then and not thereafter. My theory is that the Lord decided to initiate the visible proof of the Holy Spirit's presence and ministry after the ascension as He spoke about in Acts chapter 1.

The reason I believe that all believers in Jesus Christ and His substitutionary sacrifice are baptized by the Holy Spirit, even though it's not visible as in Acts 2, is because:
A. There are other references to the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The others aren't visible manifestations except for some special gifts.
B. The most rebuked and carnal church were told the following. Many pastors today would wrongly say that they weren't saved or there's no such thing as a carnal Christian.

13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Oh,the baptism of the holy spirit has happened since.Jesus has not stoped baptising people in the holy spirit.

Just because the baptisms in the holy spirit that is taking place these days is not written about in the bible ,does not mean they are not happening.

We testify to you about this baptism but you receive not our testimony.



Well,I was Baptised in the holy Ghost Aug 31,1998.I know because I experienced the act myself.You say you have received the holy Ghost because of what a verse in the bible say but not from personal experience. That tells me you have not received it.
I'm sure you got wet one day .

Context:

5Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, 6And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

You are incorrect.

Those in the audience were people from
-Jerusalem
-All Judea
-All the region around Jordan

Some of them trusted Christ as their Savior.
The fake preachers from of the Pharisees and Sadducees that showed up would be baptized too!
Jesus baptized them in fire and they are there yet today.

Consequences of believing and teaching a False, incorrect gospel.

Baptism into hell.

Actually, the Bible is the only reliable source. You can trust what God says . God does not lie. So if God says I got the Holy Spirit as a “gift” when I was baptized Acts 2:38, then I totally believe Him. Are you accusing God of lying? You are contradicting God when you say that I did NOT get the Spirit when I was baptized. Are you God? You have supernatural power to know that I did not get the Spirit that way? Then you are certainly calling God a liar—because that is exactly what He has promised all who are baptized.
You are the one on “sinking sand”. God says “the heart is deceitful above all things. Jeremiah 17:9. “Feelings” are not reliable at all and change all the time. Saul of Tarsus “felt” good persecuting Christian’s. He was sincere, but he was sincerely WRONG! Feelings and sincerity are not to be compared with what the Bible says because God says the Bible is given by inspiration from God. 1 Tim. 3:16. Be baptized everyone if you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and YOU WILL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHIST.” You don’t believe God or the Bible.



When John said Jesus would baptize them with the Holy Spirit and fire, he was not saying that Holy Spirit baptism was for everybody any more than He was saying the baptism of fire was for everybody. If everyone saved in the New Testament was baptized with a miraculous baptism like the apostles had in Acts 2, then where are they in the Bible and WHO are they? Where are all the miraculous baptisms you are talking about? I don’t care about the ones people think they are getting today—anyone can claim anything; that doesn’t make it true. But if the Bible teaches it then I’d like to know where they are recorded and who was baptized. It is not enough to just take every place where the word baptize is used and CLAIM it’ means miraculous Holy Spirit baptism. If you claim that then you must be able to prove it and you can’t.

You say you believe God in acts 2:38 but it's not God speaking in acts 2:38.

It is God speaking in Acts 10:15

This is God speaking

The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”



Yet you say God did not make the gentiles clean and it was Peter who made them clean when he washed them in water.






If you had recieved the holy spirit then you would preach holy spirit baptism But you preach the only baptism you have received .Water.

That’s because there is only one baptism today according to Ephesians 4:5 and it is water baptism. If Holy Spirit baptism was still in effect, GOD would have said there were TWO baptisms; but He did NOT say there were TWO, He said there is only ONE. You are arguing and contradicting God. Obviously, the scriptures teach “water” baptism is the one that He is referring to BECAUSE it was necessary and commanded by Peter even after Cornelius and his house experienced Holy Spirit baptism. It was the one used to baptize the Ethiopian Eunuch. Acts 8:36-38. All through the New Testament people were TOLD to BE BAPTIZED. That can only be accomplished by water baptism. No one ever got miraculous Holy Spirit baptism like the Apostles in Acts 2 and Cornelius in Acts 10 BY THEIR OWN MEANS OR OWN REQUEST! YOU couldn’t just go out and “get” Holy Spirit baptism. It was a miracle from God. The apostles and Cornelius were NOT seeking it when it happened to them. They were NOT PRAYING for it! They were not even expecting it. People were AMAZED when it happened. It was unexpected and unsought! That’s the way it happened in the Bible. That is far different from what people “CLAIM” to be Holy Spirit baptism today. What you claim to be Holy Spirit baptism today is nothing like the one in the Bible. And Ephesians 4:5 stands as testimony that it is not the ONE.
Holy Spirit baptism was not for the purpose of SAVING any one. It was a “sign”. There is no indication in the text that it saved anyone. It “amazed” the Jews in Acts 2 and got their attention. Peter immediately began preaching about Christ. Part of the reason they believed Peter was because of the “sign” of the Holy Spirit. They were convinced these men were telling the truth because they had the Holy Spirit. It CONFIRMED. Their words. Hebrews 2:3-4 and Mark 16:20.
The same situation at Cornelius’s house. Cornelius was not trying to get the “spirit”!!He was as surprised as everyone elsevwhen it happened. Compare that to the way people “CLAIM” to get the “Spirit” today. You have people BEGGING, CRYING, PLEADING with God, trying to “PRAY THROUGH”! THERE’s NOTHING like that in the Bible. NO, my friend. Please wake up! The devil has deceived many people with this doctrine.