To ghost, or not to ghost, that is the question.

To be ghosted is a part of the magical world of the World Wide Web, and sometimes it is expected, sometimes it is for the best, but sometimes it hurts and you are left with all the questions that will never be answered. I have sometimes thought "oh well", and shaken the dust off my sandals. But it is not always easy to let go. Shall I forgive? What is there to forgive? Is this a form of abuse? Power play? And can we as Christian justify ghosting? Is "fleeing from temptation" a valid excuse to ghost someone without a word?

I have been ghosted. More than once. And sometimes been a victim of submarining. And the latter is perhaps even more painful. You are suddenly ghosted, and then, after a month or two, it is like I should accept the person like nothing happened. And perhaps I can forgive. Once, twice and even trice. But in the end, submarining damages the trust between people, and you kind of wait for the moment you are ghosted again. And that, I would claim, is emotional abuse from the "serial-ghoster".

I am not without guilt here. And sometimes I had to break up online friendships. But I never did so without saying goodbye or explaining why this have to end. Sometimes the conversation just died out, but I don't count that as ghosting.

Can we as Christians justify ghosting?
If a person ghosting you pops back up. Do you accept that person and start talking like nothing has happened, or have you already blocked the person and deleted the app?
Can ghosting turn you into a staker? (I have been close...)

It seems to be a very sad part of modern life that along with the vast range of social avenues the internet brings, it also casts an even wider net for disappointment and rejection.

I am truly sorry for the pain you've been through. I think almost all of us have experienced it in some way.

The most prominent for me was when I first came here to CC in 2009. Back then, this place was extremely active with both voice chats and in the forums, so it was very easy to meet people. I quickly made two friends (a girl and a guy) almost immediately, and it was easy for me to feel as if I knew them since we "hung out" here every day for a few years.

The friend who was a girl and I met in person and had a great time. We kept in touch for a while but I think life just changed and the friendship faded. I can still remember the cold winter day and the neighborhood I was walking through the last time I called her. I never heard from her after that, but she'd found a boyfriend so I know her life had moved on.

The guy friend lived in another country and we kept in touch regularly for around 5 years. That was really hard because I would waver back and forth between liking him as a friend and wishing there could be something more. I had tried talking to him about it a bit but we had some differences he felt were a bit too challenging, and over time, he met someone he felt was more compatible online. I did my best to just be a supportive friend in the background.

Some time later, this girl dumped him and he was understandably very upset, pouring out his frustration and disappointment in frequent messages. After some time, I don't know if it was because of a rebound, but he started talking about visiting me here in the USA. And then all of a sudden, I stopped hearing from him. This was so odd because the most we'd gone without communicating before was maybe a week or two, and now several months, about a half a year, went by.

One day, out of the blue, I got a message from him saying, "I'm so sorry Seoul, things have been so busy -- I'll write tomorrow and tell you everything that's going on." Well, that next message never came, and I never heard from him again.

It took a while for me to completely let go, of course, because I was convinced he'd pop back around once life settled down. As I said, even as just friends, we'd never gone through more than a few weeks without communicating and so this felt like a real shock to my system. He had become a very regular part of my life. But I started to accept it as the weeks, months, and eventually, years, rolled by.

I think it's been around 10 years now? And I'm about the easiest person for someone on this site to find, because I've never changed my username. Even if I did, my threads and posts would immediately give away who I am so I have nowhere on this forum to hide. God was gracious to me though, as a new wave of people arrived at CC about that time, and I'm still friends with some of them to this day.

It really is a tough landscape to navigate. I've done my share of easing off, then dropping communication as well for a myriad of reasons (such as some I mentioned in the thread about red flags for addiction and mental illness,) or because we've had nothing in common. And plenty of people have felt this way about me as well.

I try my best to keep my heart guarded but still open. I realized that back in the day, I grew attachments very easily based on pain (wanting someone to care,) fantasy (trying to grow feelings beyond reality,) and loneliness, which greatly skewed what I thought I was looking for. These days, I think I'm more grounded in reality and in a much different place in life.

I try to remind myself to ask God about who He does and doesn't want in my life, and how discerning I need to be with my choices. I also pray to be open to people but not get carried away or too hurt when/if they move on.

I'm sorry this answer probably isn't very helpful. In short, I think God changed me over the years.

It still hurts.

Just maybe not as much, or maybe I've become better at shoving down the pain, as we all unfortunately learn to do.

In the meantime, I'm thankful to have the Singles Forum as an outlet to share the journey with, both the bad and the good.

Definitions to assist the more challenged among us (especially me):

To Ghost: the act of abruptly — and seemingly without reason — stopping all communication with another. The ghoster vanishes into thin air, ignoring the other person’s text, calls, and carrier pigeon memos, ceasing all contact.

To Submarine: To resurface completely, like a submarine. A ghoster might reach out via text and act like nothing ever happened, without an apology or acknowledgment for the ghosting that occurred in the first place. Submarines will always find their way back into the shadows of the deep mysterious sea, so don’t mistake the resurfacing for real connection.

All I know is, I can only control me. And all I can do is make sure I don't leave anybody else hanging.

What other people do, that's their problem. Best thing for me to do is just move on. Anything else is just picking at a scab so it won't heal.

Don't ghost, it's not a nice way to treat people and breaks the golden rule (drifting apart is not the same as ghosting). And if you're ghosted, that's a good sign that the person doesn't have enough respect for you to deserve to be a serious part of your life so they stay on the casual acquaintance level if they try to come back.

With the caveat that we have to define what the time period is that equals ghosting, life got busy or I got lost in negative thoughts I didn't want to burden you with for a couple days isn't the same as I disappeared 3 months ago and just popped back up with no explanation.

I find drifting apart to be the most common thing whenever it comes to friendships and acquiantances. It aint got nothin to do with ill will, but i can understand why it feels like that. Im possibly guilty of that myself as well. Ive been a member of this site since 2013. On several occasions Ive left the site, but im always using the same name whenever coming back. I have known several people that im no longer in touch with. Whos to blame? Me or them? I dont know. Thing is if any of us really wanted to keep in touch wed figure out a way. As of today theres only one person who Im still is interacting with here at cc outside of the forums, and we have been doing so ever since 2015 or 2016. Im really glad youre still my friend!

I must admit that online dating, dating apps, or chat sites are way out of my area of expertise. I don't use them to meet women, and I'm hoping to shed some light on why I feel it's a waste of time.

I'm unclear about the types of questions you are trying to get answered here. Can you clarify that for me?

Can you really be a victim of someone who is merely floating around in cyberspace? Couldn't you simply cut off the electricity to your computer or device and keep that from happening?

Forgive what? It could be that the other person you've been talking to suddenly couldn't pay their electric bill anymore.

I don't want to make light of what you've been going through, but if you look at the absurdity of "making a real connection" in the make-believe world of cyberspace, then it's easier to move on when someone "ghosts" you.

To make a true connection with someone, you have to be in front of them, face-to-face, in real-time. That's the way God intended relationships to flourish. He doesn't want us to be buried in some fake, online world.

Sure, you meet some nice people online, and they may seem wonderful, but you don't truly know them until you meet them face-to-face. Pinning your hopes of romance, dating, and relationships on a fake online world is a mistake. It's doomed from the start.

What trust? How can you trust someone who's made up of a bunch of pixels? I hope you're starting to see my point.

Again, allowing yourself to become emotional with a person you've never met outside a chat room is a mistake.

Online friendships are not true friendships. You have to get back to the real world for those. Online chats are devoid of commitment, plain and simple.

Yes, because God did not intend for us to have our relationships within the fake online world. He wants us to have relationships where we can put our hand on someone's shoulder when they are feeling down; help a young person up after they've taken a spill on their bicycle; or kiss an elderly grandmother on the cheek to show our appreciation.

I think it would be helpful to define the word "accepting." If it means investing huge quantities of emotional currency on this person, then no way.

Do you mean stalker? If it's staker, I am unfamiliar with the term.

Anyway, I'll let you respond to what I've said here. I can already sense there will be some disagreement between us, and that's okay. I just wanted to throw a different perspective your way.

You do realize you just called her a fool, over and over, right?

Was that intentional or accidental?

I mean I agree that sometimes people take online interactions too seriously, but there are ways and different ways of saying the same thing...

Thank you for taking time to write your thoughts about this. I admit that I have been naive, but I try to think that most people have good intentions, both online and in real life. I didn't want to be specific, but one of the persons in mind (I had three... And believe me I have learnt my lesson), met with me twice we have spent several weeks together. He submarined me before the planned wedding and then ghosted me when he was supposed to come back. I know. I am not the best of the best women on the planet, and I understand why he couldn't commit himself, but to just vanish is cruel. Maybe your assesment is accurate and I am a fool, but perhaps you should ask yourself is there another perspective before you judge people.

Perhaps he is right. I am a fool. But I try to be a good hearted one. Thank you

I would say that it's a good thing that you tend to see the positive side of people rather than a negative. Obviously things can go wrong with that outlook but I've always thought that people who think positively of others is a good way to live. I've always been highly suspicious of people intentions in real life but I don't have that issue online for some reason. In fact, I might be too trustful of people online now that I think about it. Either way, I kind of wish I wasn't so mistrustful of people and could just assume nice people are actually nice and not just pretending while hiding their nefarious plots and deeds.

Lower stakes online, less pressure. Face to face is, by comparison, rather intense. A lot easier to trust when there's less risk.

Not sure if this makes you a hypocrite for even being on a forum in the first place or explains why all you seem to be interested in doing is lecturing strangers online. At any rate, most of us are internet savy enough to know not to take the opinions or advice of strangers on the internet too seriously. Though having met some people on this site in real life kind of proves your assertion about online relationships not being real false.

*Shrugs*

Some of my best friends are ones I've met online first, and then in person. And they were across the country or in one case, even in another country, not just a few hours away. These are people who, if I showed up without a dime to my name, I know they would take me in, no questions asks. In fact, when I've been going through some especially challenging things in my life, they'll often say, "Why don't you come out our way?"

I'm going to be meeting up with some of them again later this year.

It's a lot of work (I basically gave up time spent on TV or movies for writing,) and not for everyone, but we all have different experiences and are built for different things.

I've had probably thousands -- hundreds for sure -- of "false starts" over my lifetime (decades of talking to people through writing) in which you start talking to someone and it fades away. Sometimes after a day, weeks, months, years... and there are times when it's quite painful.

But isn't everything in life worth anything hard work and a lot of pain?

And if God should happen to align you with a real friend through just words, it really is something special and well worth the trouble.

Just another point of view.

I am heartbroken over this response, so I will address it first. Please forgive me if I gave you the impression that I was judging you. Although I am a pro writer, I have failed miserably in conveying my thoughts in a kind, sincere manner. On the contrary. My intentions were to provide an honest perspective and steer you toward a more personal relationship in real life. Again, I am so sorry.

You are not a fool. You are a kind, sincere person who is probably very shy. I run into a lot of men in this category as well. If only I could get you together with them!

All kidding aside, a lot of shy people turn to the online world to find someone to love for several reasons, including:

--The risk is lessened because you are not face-to-face within the same proximity to one another

--You don't have to go looking, since everyone is in the same "location" (i.e. a website or app)

--There are more people to choose from on any given day

--You can pick a starting point by choosing someone with the same interests

--Unlike IRL (in real life), the woman can initiate first contact without undue criticism

--Private chat options allow you to have more intimate conversations without the risk of anyone eavesdropping

I know you probably have your own reasons, but these are the most common ones.

Get mad at me if you want, but I'm going to tell you the truth: Not everyone thinks Ariana Grande is hot! Now, I hope you've learned your lesson from that.

Seriously, not every man is going to find every woman attractive. We are just as silly as women when it comes to that, and most of the time, just like women, we base it off of something completely irrational. And just like women, we have absolutely no idea what we want. Those are the facts.

When you say "I'm not the best of the best women," well, neither is Ariana Grande to a lot of men! Some would prefer this one to that one. Whatever.

A friend of mine many years ago schooled me on this very subject. He could get a date at the drop of a hat (so it seemed) and he always had a new girl on his arm every time I saw him.

He sat me down and sternly told me, "Steve, you're a good-looking guy, but not every woman is going to be attracted to you." While his advice was obvious to everyone else, I really needed that dose of reality. I mean, I can wear the best clothes, have the nicest haircut, whiten my teeth until they glow in the dark, get a nice tan, and all of that, but there will always be women who simply are not attracted to me. For whatever reason, our Lord only knows.

The same is true for women. Not every man will find you attractive-- but some certainly will, especially when you do these things:

-- Say hi back to the guy in the elevator, smile while you're at it

-- Smile, wink, and say thank you to the Amazon delivery guy

--In line at the grocery store, smile, say hello, and ask him "How's your day going" (I love when women say ask me that!)

--Just say a simple hello to 10 guys a day and see if you can make someone's day (you'll be surprised at how uplifting it is for you)

You already know how to be safe while initiating a conversation, so I will only ask that you be safe and have these interactions where there are plenty of other people around. Goes without saying.

I truly want you to succeed in finding the man of your dreams, but you'll have to get back into the IRL world. Try this:

1. Turn off your computer or electronic device for one week. If you really need it for work, then disable all your social media apps, including Christian Chat. Only for a week.

2. Take a walk in a safe place without your phone or other device. Look around you and notice all the people. How many are smiling or laughing? How many seem to be concerned? What's the ratio of men to women? What's the weather like? has god blessed this very day? Drink in your surroundings and breathe in deeply. Do this every day for the next week.

3. While you're in a safe, public place, say hello to an elderly woman and compliment her on something. Next, say hello to an elderly gentleman.

4. Now that you've practiced saying hello to a few people, try saying hello to a guy closer to your age. He doesn't have to wow you or anything. He can even be a little on the unattractive side. The important thing is that you are gaining confidence with every passing day, and that is super attractive to ALL men!

I have to go for now, but I want you to be successful in finding the man of your dreams, and I'm convinced he's wandering around your hometown looking for you right now. But I guarantee, you're not going to find him on your computer screen.

My apologies, for giving our Lord a little "g," was not intentional, but extremely careless, nevertheless.

Thank you again for taking the time. It sounds like you really care, and that warms my heart, albeit it is clear to me you don't know me all that well.
As for finding the man of my dreams, I am quite sure that if I find him, he wouldn't be that keen on being found. I will just try to manage my life as well as I can, with all the obstacles I depend on God to help me move. As for being social and smiling to people and saying hello and so forth... Sometimes I just need a break. I teach, am active in politics and organisations and have good, solid friendships IRL, so for me I need a timeout more than a push to go out smiling to the world. But thanks for your concern.

The purpose of this thread was to address the online culture's tendency to swipe and delete. I know some here that goes that extra mile, like Seoulsearch, Tourist and Lynx, that really are sincere in their connecting with people here. Sometimes friendships fade or they end due to a fall out, and that is okay. But I do think it is worth discussing the practice of ghosting. I think it is harmful both to the ghoster and the ghostee not to get a closure, and it is not a Christian way of shaking the dust off the sandals. Aelred of Rievaulex wrote a 1000 years ago-ish about maintaining friendships and how they can give you a glimpse of God's Kingdom on earth, but also how to end destructive friendships with kindness, and I think that is the way forward. Both online and IRL.

It is time once again to quote the song I always quote when this topic comes up.

(Singer's friends)
Me
I'm a part of your circle of friends
And we
Notice you don't come around
And me
I think it all depends
On you
Touching ground with us

(Singer's reply)
I quit
I give up
Nothings good enough
For anybody else, it seems

And being alone
It's the best way
When I'm by myself
It's the best way to be
When I'm all alone
It's the best way to be
When I'm by myself
Nobody else can say goodbye


- Edie Brickell

I don't believe in ghosting, though I have done this a few times in the past. I have also been ghosted. I ghosted others when I felt betrayed or if I wanted to avoid a confrontation where I knew the other person would just cause more stress. If I also did not see potential in an IRL friendship due to distance, etc. I kind of withdrew from communication. I did write an apology message to one person after many years but not really looking to reconnect (and got no response). Looking back, I would have handled these situations differently. I have not had online friends so I can't comment on that, but I imagine ghosting would be easier to handle with online friendships. I could be wrong.

If a friend doesn't respond after a few times of trying to reconnect, the best you can do is just move on. If a situation like this happens to me in the future, I would also send a closure message (email, etc.) after about a month expressing myself and also saying I am not sure what happened, but I won't bother them again if they don't want to continue the friendship. This type of message should quickly prompt the other person to clear any misunderstanding (if there is).