Saul of Tarsus was not saved on the road to Damascus.

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T

The_old_guy

Member
#41
Nov 15, 2023
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#41
Beckworth said:
Saul of Tarsus persecuted Christians UNTIL…he met Jesus on the road to Damascus. Acts 9 He was blinded by a very bright light but Jesus talked to him and told him,” I am Jesus…” Saul BELIVED and asked Jesus, “What do you want me to do?” Let’s just stop right here and ask yourself what do preachers today say Saul should do right here?
Some would say, “ There is NOTHING you need to do. You ‘believe’ so you are saved.”
Some would say, “ Just repeat the ‘sinner’s prayer’ and you will be saved.”
Some would say, “ Just accept Jesus in your heart and you will be saved.”
Some would say he was saved because he had a “religious experience.”
So what did JESUS say? He told Saul to go into the city and there he would be told WHAT HE MUST DO! Obviously, there was MORE he needed to do to be saved than just believe. If not, then why did Jesus say that?
Saul spent 3 days in Damascus fasting and praying. Evidence of REPENTANCE but no evidence that he “prayed through” to salvation. Finally, Ananias came to him and told him to “Arise, and be BAPTIZED and wash away your sins.” Saul still had his SINS three days after he BELIEVED, and REPENTED. This was what “he was told he must do.”
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So, tell me the precious moment when Paul was saved. You can't because Dr. Luke is telling the story that he was told about Paul's conversion. To present your case from that story in Acts is to disregard the context of the history Luke is relating, which doesn't tell the internal happenings that Jesus caused in Paul.
 
B

Burn1986

Active member
#42
Mar 4, 2024
765
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#42
Beckworth said:
Saul of Tarsus persecuted Christians UNTIL…he met Jesus on the road to Damascus. Acts 9 He was blinded by a very bright light but Jesus talked to him and told him,” I am Jesus…” Saul BELIVED and asked Jesus, “What do you want me to do?” Let’s just stop right here and ask yourself what do preachers today say Saul should do right here?
Some would say, “ There is NOTHING you need to do. You ‘believe’ so you are saved.”
Some would say, “ Just repeat the ‘sinner’s prayer’ and you will be saved.”
Some would say, “ Just accept Jesus in your heart and you will be saved.”
Some would say he was saved because he had a “religious experience.”
So what did JESUS say? He told Saul to go into the city and there he would be told WHAT HE MUST DO! Obviously, there was MORE he needed to do to be saved than just believe. If not, then why did Jesus say that?
Saul spent 3 days in Damascus fasting and praying. Evidence of REPENTANCE but no evidence that he “prayed through” to salvation. Finally, Ananias came to him and told him to “Arise, and be BAPTIZED and wash away your sins.” Saul still had his SINS three days after he BELIEVED, and REPENTED. This was what “he was told he must do.”
Click to expand...
Why was it so important to you to make this declaration and thread?
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#43
Aug 4, 2016
2,060
522
113
#43
Beckworth said:
Saul of Tarsus persecuted Christians UNTIL…he met Jesus on the road to Damascus. Acts 9 He was blinded by a very bright light but Jesus talked to him and told him,” I am Jesus…” Saul BELIVED and asked Jesus, “What do you want me to do?” Let’s just stop right here and ask yourself what do preachers today say Saul should do right here?
Some would say, “ There is NOTHING you need to do. You ‘believe’ so you are saved.”
Some would say, “ Just repeat the ‘sinner’s prayer’ and you will be saved.”
Some would say, “ Just accept Jesus in your heart and you will be saved.”
Some would say he was saved because he had a “religious experience.”
So what did JESUS say? He told Saul to go into the city and there he would be told WHAT HE MUST DO! Obviously, there was MORE he needed to do to be saved than just believe. If not, then why did Jesus say that?
Saul spent 3 days in Damascus fasting and praying. Evidence of REPENTANCE but no evidence that he “prayed through” to salvation. Finally, Ananias came to him and told him to “Arise, and be BAPTIZED and wash away your sins.” Saul still had his SINS three days after he BELIEVED, and REPENTED. This was what “he was told he must do.”
Click to expand...
Beckworth said:
Saul of Tarsus persecuted Christians UNTIL…he met Jesus on the road to Damascus. Acts 9 He was blinded by a very bright light but Jesus talked to him and told him,” I am Jesus…” Saul BELIVED and asked Jesus, “What do you want me to do?” Let’s just stop right here and ask yourself what do preachers today say Saul should do right here?
Some would say, “ There is NOTHING you need to do. You ‘believe’ so you are saved.”
Some would say, “ Just repeat the ‘sinner’s prayer’ and you will be saved.”
Some would say, “ Just accept Jesus in your heart and you will be saved.”
Some would say he was saved because he had a “religious experience.”
So what did JESUS say? He told Saul to go into the city and there he would be told WHAT HE MUST DO! Obviously, there was MORE he needed to do to be saved than just believe. If not, then why did Jesus say that?
Saul spent 3 days in Damascus fasting and praying. Evidence of REPENTANCE but no evidence that he “prayed through” to salvation. Finally, Ananias came to him and told him to “Arise, and be BAPTIZED and wash away your sins.” Saul still had his SINS three days after he BELIEVED, and REPENTED. This was what “he was told he must do.”
Click to expand...
Is there a reason why you have not responded to this thread you started? And to quote you, "Some would say" You have a couple of "detractors" around here trying to defend the indefensible. :rolleyes:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
Lamar

Lamar

Active member
#44
May 21, 2023
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#44
bluto said:
Is there anything in what I said "esoteric" to you?
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You: "Now, you do have one other option from the question your asking me"

Not esoteric but certainly a classic example of a false dichotomy.

Here are some other possible understandings of the event:

The thief was baptized for the remission of sins by John the Baptist, his followers or even one of the Apostles during the ministry of Jesus before His death. Luke 3:3 and Mark 1:4

Jesus is not hampered in anyway to forgive the sins of anyone. If Jesus wanted the thief to be with Him, so be it. Jesus forgave others besides the thief such as in Matt. 9:5-8 & Luke7:36-50.

The Great Commission was not in effect at that time Matthew 28:16-20.

The promise to the thief on the cross was not issued to you but to him. We can no more claim this personal promise then the promise given to King Hezekiah. 2nd Kings 20

You are forced to see a dichotomy because of your theology blinders.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#45
Jul 3, 2015
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#45
Shilohsfoal said:
There are some people on this board who believe Paul was not Baptized in the holy spirit.
They believe he was only Baptized in water and that water washed his sins away.

Paul said he was Baptised by the spirit .

1 corinth 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews
or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Click to expand...

1 Corinthians 12:13
:)
 
Lamar

Lamar

Active member
#46
May 21, 2023
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#46
The_old_guy said:
So, tell me the precious moment when Paul was saved.
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Acts 22:16


Acts 22:16
New International Version

16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’

What purpose would this clear verbiage present other then the obvious.

It was only a few verses away.

How could you have missed this???

Unless your theology forces you.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#47
Jul 18, 2017
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#47
Lamar said:
16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’
Click to expand...
No matter how this sounds on the surface, NO ONE IS SAVED BY WATER BAPTISM. That is false doctrine, which permeates the Catholic Church.

Perhaps the message the Lord was conveying to Paul through those words of Ananias were this: "When you are baptized, you will know with certainty that all your past sins have been washed away, BY THE PRECIOUS BLOOD OF THE LAMB OF GOD. And when you call upon the Lord at the same time, you will be confessing that you believe that Christ died for your sins and rose again for your justification".

All Christians have a duty to understand the significance and importance of the shed blood of Christ for the remission of their sins. And that their souls are being cleansed continually after that, when they repent and confess their sins to God.
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#48
Aug 4, 2016
2,060
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#48
Lamar said:
You: "Now, you do have one other option from the question your asking me"

Not esoteric but certainly a classic example of a false dichotomy.

Here are some other possible understandings of the event:

The thief was baptized for the remission of sins by John the Baptist, his followers or even one of the Apostles during the ministry of Jesus before His death. Luke 3:3 and Mark 1:4

Jesus is not hampered in anyway to forgive the sins of anyone. If Jesus wanted the thief to be with Him, so be it. Jesus forgave others besides the thief such as in Matt. 9:5-8 & Luke7:36-50.

The Great Commission was not in effect at that time Matthew 28:16-20.

The promise to the thief on the cross was not issued to you but to him. We can no more claim this personal promise then the promise given to King Hezekiah. 2nd Kings 20

You are forced to see a dichotomy because of your theology blinders.
Click to expand...
I was not aware that you knew the operation of one's mind! How do you know that the thief might have been baptized by John the Baptist at Luke 3:3 and Mark 1:4? What did he do get baptized and then got involved in a life of crime? :rolleys:

Of course The Great Commission was not in effect. That's because it was given after Jesus resurrected. Now this is my favorite:
"The promise to the thief on the cross was not issued to you but to him. We can no more claim this personal promise then the promise given to King Hezekiah. 2nd Kings 20."

So when Jesus at John 3:3 was speaking to Nicodemus "PERSONALLY" and said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless ONE us born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." Was this promise given to Nicodemus alone or does it apply to anyone? Btw, did you happen to notice in your study of the Bible John 3:16? You know, the part that says, "whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life." I suggest you read Hebrews 5:13-14 because your still feeding on milk.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#49
Aug 4, 2016
2,060
522
113
#49
Lamar said:
You: "Now, you do have one other option from the question your asking me"

Not esoteric but certainly a classic example of a false dichotomy.

Here are some other possible understandings of the event:

The thief was baptized for the remission of sins by John the Baptist, his followers or even one of the Apostles during the ministry of Jesus before His death. Luke 3:3 and Mark 1:4

Jesus is not hampered in anyway to forgive the sins of anyone. If Jesus wanted the thief to be with Him, so be it. Jesus forgave others besides the thief such as in Matt. 9:5-8 & Luke7:36-50.

The Great Commission was not in effect at that time Matthew 28:16-20.

The promise to the thief on the cross was not issued to you but to him. We can no more claim this personal promise then the promise given to King Hezekiah. 2nd Kings 20

You are forced to see a dichotomy because of your theology blinders.
Click to expand...
I was not aware that you knew the operation of one's mind! How do you know that the thief might have been baptized by John the Baptist at Luke 3:3 and Mark 1:4? What did he do get baptized and then got involved in a life of crime? :rolleyes:

Of course The Great Commission was not in effect. That's because it was given after Jesus resurrected. Now this is my favorite:
"The promise to the thief on the cross was not issued to you but to him. We can no more claim this personal promise then the promise given to King Hezekiah. 2nd Kings 20."

So when Jesus at John 3:3 was speaking to Nicodemus "PERSONALLY" and said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless ONE us born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." Was this promise given to Nicodemus alone or does it apply to anyone? Btw, did you happen to notice in your study of the Bible John 3:16? You know, the part that says, "whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life." I suggest you read Hebrews 5:13-14 because your still feeding on milk.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#50
Jul 18, 2017
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#50
On a further note, not everything that the Lord communicated to the soul and spirit of Saul is recorded in the Bible. Just what the Holy Spirit wants to reveal to us.

You will note that overall the New Testament is quite brief (as compared with some of the books of the OT). Some NT books consist of just one chapter. God and Christ are not "wordy". So all that is presented in writing is not all that actually happened.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#51
Jan 13, 2016
16,794
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113
#51
Nehemiah6 said:
No matter how this sounds on the surface, NO ONE IS SAVED BY WATER BAPTISM. That is false doctrine, which permeates the Catholic Church.

Perhaps the message the Lord was conveying to Paul through those words of Ananias were this: "When you are baptized, you will know with certainty that all your past sins have been washed away, BY THE PRECIOUS BLOOD OF THE LAMB OF GOD. And when you call upon the Lord at the same time, you will be confessing that you believe that Christ died for your sins and rose again for your justification".

All Christians have a duty to understand the significance and importance of the shed blood of Christ for the remission of their sins. And that their souls are being cleansed continually after that, when they repent and confess their sins to God.
Click to expand...
Yes! Yet another thread failing to rightly divide the word of truth.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#52
Nov 27, 2018
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#52
Shilohsfoal said:
There are some people on this board who believe paul.was not Baptised in the holy spirit. They believe he was only Baptised in water and that water washed his sins away.

Paul said he was Baptised by the spirit .

1 corinth 12:13

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Click to expand...

"And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.

And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." This is a reference to being baptized in water in the name of Jesus.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#53
Nov 27, 2018
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#53
Shilohsfoal said:
Time for me to have my daily baptism.I hate working with miratec.Soap.and water is the best way to clean the outside of the flesh.
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Before Satan can substitute his own lies, he must get rid of the truth of God's Word. If he cannot argue it away, he will laugh it away, and he can usually find somebody to laugh with him. (from The Bible Exposition Commentary) Jude 18


God commands water baptism:
Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. John 7:16-17
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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#54
Nov 27, 2018
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#54
Burn1986 said:
Why was it so important to you to make this declaration and thread?
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It's only a guess of course, but I believe @Beckworth wants people to actually take time to study what the entire record reveals. Too many just jump on the band wagon.

"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:31-32
 
S

Shilohsfoal

Banned
#55
Dec 27, 2018
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#55
Wansvic said:
"And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.

And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." This is a reference to being baptized in water in the name of Jesus.
Click to expand...

Paul spoke of his baptism.

1 corinth 12:13

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.


Paul knew he was not Baptised by water into Christ.If that were the case then everyone who takes a bath would be in Christ.
 
S

Shilohsfoal

Banned
#56
Dec 27, 2018
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#56
Wansvic said:
Before Satan can substitute his own lies, he must get rid of the truth of God's Word. If he cannot argue it away, he will laugh it away, and he can usually find somebody to laugh with him. (from The Bible Exposition Commentary) Jude 18


God commands water baptism:
Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. John 7:16-17
Click to expand...

Satan wants everyone to believe water washes away sin.Then no one would turn to Christ.They would have water.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#57
Nov 27, 2018
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#57
Shilohsfoal said:
Paul spoke of his baptism.

1 corinth 12:13

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.


Paul knew he was not Baptised by water into Christ.If that were the case then everyone who takes a bath would be in Christ.
Click to expand...
Baptism in the name of Jesus is water baptism. (Acts 10:47-48)
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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#58
Nov 27, 2018
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#58
Shilohsfoal said:
Satan wants everyone to believe water washes away sin.Then no one would turn to Christ.They would have water.
Click to expand...
God designed water baptism for the remission of sin. It is contingent upon having first placed one's trust in Jesus. Jesus made this clear in Mark 16:15-16.
 
B

Beckworth

Active member
#59
May 15, 2019
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#59
Shilohsfoal said:
There are some people on this board who believe paul.was not Baptised in the holy spirit. They believe he was only Baptised in water and that water washed his sins away.

Paul said he was Baptised by the spirit .

1 corinth 12:13

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Click to expand...
bluto said:
When you say, "but no evidence that he "prayed through" to salvation" how do you know that? You even admitted that "Saul spent 3 days in Damascus fasting and praying." So how do you know it was not praying for salvation?

Also, as you stated, "Finally, Ananias came to him and told him to "Arise, and be BAPTIZED and wash away your sins." For your information you have at Acts 10:44-48 a situation or a "model" if you will of Cornelius and his household at Acts 10:45, "And all the circumcised believers who had come with Peter were amazed, because (or why) they received the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentiles also,." Then at vs47, Surely no one can refuse the water for those to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?" This means that one is saved first and then they are to be water baptized. In other words, you do not get water baptized to be saved.

And what about those three days of Saul fasting and praying, what happened? I submit the answer can be found at Galatians 1:11-12. "For I would have you know brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. Vs12, "For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ." In fact if you read the rest of chapter 1 of Galatians Paul explains his and how he came to salvation.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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There isNO EVIDENCE that Saul was trying to “pray through” to salvation. Jesus has already told him there was something he MUST DO and that he would BE TOLD what he must do. He is waiting on instructions from Jesus. You are simply ASSUMING your position without a shred of evidence or proof. NOTHING to indicate what you are claiming is true. Jesus also says we are not to ADD to his word. Rev. 22:18-19 You ask “how do I know there is no evidence”? Because THERE IS NONE THERE! That’s how I know. !
I counted at least 16 references in the New Testament (1 in O.T.) where “by the Spirit” is used and NOT 1 of them was referring to Holy Spirit baptism. Luke 4:1, Galations 5:18, Matt. 4:1, and Romans 8:14 ALL refer to being LED by the Spirit as when Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness— you assume that means Holy Spirit baptism??
In Matt. 12:28, Jesus cast out demons by the Spirit—you’re saying Jesus was baptized by the Spirit while he was casting out demons??
acts 18:5, Paul was COMPELLED “by the Spirit” to testify that Jesus was Christ. You think that means Paul was baptized by the Spirit as he was testifying?? No that just means that the Holy Spirit COMPELLED him to do something, in this case, testify.
I Cor. 12:13- Paul SPOKE “ by the Spirit.” You think Paul spoke by Holy Spirit baptism??
Rom. 8:13-we LIVE “by the Spirit.” Eph. 3:5-knowledge was revealed “by the Spirit.” Simeon came “by the Spirit” (baptism??)” into the temple. Agabus SHOWED “by the Spirit” that there was going to be a famine. You think he showed this by Holy Spirit baptism?? Acts 11:28. Psalms 51:12-uphold me “ by your generous Spirit.” This is Holy Spirit baptism?
Acts 16:6- they were forbidden “by the Holy Spirit to preach…”. You think this was Baptism???
Then, why would you ASSUME that 1 Cor. 12:13 means Holy Spirit baptism when NONE of the other passages that I’ve given you means Holy Spirit baptism. Just because “by the Spirit” is used does not mean you can ASSUME it means Holy Spirit baptism, just like you can’t ASSUME it’s referring to Holy Spirit baptism in all of the scriptures I quoted.
All you can say about 1 Cor. 12:13 is that Paul is saying the Spirit “led” him, or compelled him, or showed him, or revealed to him or instructed him to be baptized into one body. You can’t just arbitrarily assign Holy Spirit baptism to any and every mention of the Holy Spirit. And by the way, that must be water baptism in 1 Cor. 12:13 because Holy Spirit baptism only occurred twice in the New Testament and was never used to save people but was a “sign” that the message was from God. Holy Spirit baptism was not for everybody. And as you can see in Acts 2 and Acts 10, it was not something you could just go out and DO. It was unsolicited— they were NOT praying for it, or TRYING to get it. It was given solely at God’s discretion. Therefore, you cannot get it just anytime you want to and certainly not on your own terms.
 
Lamar

Lamar

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#60
May 21, 2023
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#60
Wansvic said:
God designed water baptism for the remission of sin. It is contingent upon having first placed one's trust in Jesus. Jesus made this clear in Mark 16:15-16.
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I quite agree.

Submitting to water baptism for the remission of sins is trusting in the words of Jesus.

Insisting on following your own personal sensibilities is rebellion.

Faith alone regeneration theology is a theology based on simple human conjecture. A theology without an example.

A theology based on negating one verse with another.

A theology that abuses Paul's words against works of the flesh.

Calling even obedience to the Gospel as "filthy rags".
 
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