Saul of Tarsus was not saved on the road to Damascus.

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Lamar

Lamar

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May 21, 2023
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ThereRoseaLamb said:
No, it's not, it's whom we must obey. People take too many Scriptures twisted out of context and make their own religion out of it. Calvin was a whiz at it.
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You are describing Faith Alone Regeneration Theology which you are part of, as well as Calvin.
This theology takes scriptural generalities and indefinite statements and labels them as all encompassing affirmations.

They will then use this twisted understanding and attempt to negate or ignore the rest of the Bible.

There is a reason for James 2:24 to exist.
This is also the reason the verbiage of your "proof-text" omits any words such as "alone or only".

It is you who is inserting these concepts into the scriptures.

Can you not see this?
 
Niki7

Niki7

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Feb 21, 2023
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Mem said:
If we follow the logic offered to imitate Jesus' example, to the T, the Baptist would see us coming and he'd proclaim to everyone, "look who comes!" and then say to us, "it is me that should be baptized by you," and we'd reply, "let it be done in order to fulfill all righteousness"... and then we'd be led into the wilderness and, eventually, be crucified. No doubt, ye all would say to that proposition, "don't be ridiculous."

However, at what point do we accept that Jesus has fulfilled all righteousness? And at what point is all our righteousness fulfilled in Him?

I was baptized the summer I was to turn 14. I didn't return for the documentation, so I really don't recall the exact date and whether I saw actually 13 and not yet 14 but, at any rate, in Hebrew tradition, at the time well past the bat mitzvah that would consider me and adult. But it seems that I was driven into the wilderness the next 10 years until Oct 28, 1993, 11am (at its commencement) when I emerged standing firm in the Lord. Not that I persecuted Christians or was struck blind, but it was a sort of Damascus experience where scales fell from my eyes and I my sight was proverbially restored, and I knew true elation that no one has been able to discourage since.

I write this only FWIW.
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some years back during a crisis in my life, I got hold of a book that did a 180 on me. it was soundly based on scripture, certainly something to never take for granted, and went into depth on Jesus fulfilling all righteousness and our righteousness in Him or as you said our righteousness fulfilled in Him

I am convinced that if a person has not grasped this, for whatever reason cause those are myriad and the devil loves to keep us from this core truth, they will be forever searching for something that they cannot name, even though scripture explains all of it to us
 
Niki7

Niki7

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#323
Lamar said:
You are describing Faith Alone Regeneration Theology which you are part of, as well as Calvin.
This theology takes scriptural generalities and indefinite statements and labels them as all encompassing affirmations.
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do you have another way to accept salvation through Christ? I would state that is the point at which your attachment to works shows up

Calvin has other ideas altogether and you are obviously not acquainted with them, so adding his name to what you call 'faith alone regeneration' does not help you

your works, good intentions and the best of whatever qualities you may think you are proficient at, have done nothing, are doing nothing and will do nothing to secure your salvation

is it blasphemy or willing ignorance that creates the idea in a person's mind that they can add anything to perfection through efforts labelled as filthy rags within scripture itself?
 
Mem

Mem

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Sep 23, 2014
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#324
Niki7 said:
some years back during a crisis in my life, I got hold of a book that did a 180 on me. it was soundly based on scripture, certainly something to never take for granted, and went into depth on Jesus fulfilling all righteousness and our righteousness in Him or as you said our righteousness fulfilled in Him

I am convinced that if a person has not grasped this, for whatever reason cause those are myriad and the devil loves to keep us from this core truth, they will be forever searching for something that they cannot name, even though scripture explains all of it to us
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It is all the difference in wondering if, indeed, I am saved and realizing My Salvation has, indeed, come.
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

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Jan 18, 2016
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#326
Mem said:
However, at what point do we accept that Jesus has fulfilled all righteousness?
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Of course he did... he is the only one that could.
That is why we are baptized in his name, into his death...
That's why John's baptism wasn't enough.
 
Lamar

Lamar

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Niki7 said:
do you have another way to accept salvation through Christ? I would state that is the point at which your attachment to works shows up
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Another way??? I only know of one way, obedience to God. What other way do you have?
 
Niki7

Niki7

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#328
Lamar said:
Another way??? I only know of one way, obedience to God. What other way do you have?
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I have the way the Bible states we are saved

Through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. There is no other way

Obedience follows salvation. It is not now and never has been the way to salvation. We have the entire Old Testament to check out in that regard
 
Lamar

Lamar

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#329
Niki7 said:
I have the way the Bible states we are saved

Through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. There is no other way

Obedience follows salvation. It is not now and never has been the way to salvation. We have the entire Old Testament to check out in that regard
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Does faith in the Lord Jesus Christ come before or after salvation?
 
Lamar

Lamar

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Niki7 said:
don't bother with the trick calvin questions
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It's by no means a "trick question".

It is a rather logical question to your affirmation.

I believe in salvation through obedience hence I would answer the following question as such:

Does obedience to the Word of God come before or after salvation?

I would answer "before". See no trick.

There is no reason to not answer the question...unless you see the unjustifiable reasoning behind such a notion.
 
posthuman

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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hornetguy said:
I have never heard of that....are you talking about the Roman Catholic church? I know they believe in "last rites"...
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there was along period of time during which the church was called 'catholic' meaning general, and it didn't have anything to do with Rome. Rome was only one of several major centers of the church, alongside Smyrna, Alexandria, Jerusalem, Antioch and Constantinople.
It was during this first thousand years that this practice was common, but calling it RCC isn't really accurate, because the church in Rome wasn't really substantially different than the church anywhere else at the time.
 
posthuman

posthuman

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hornetguy said:
well, they were acting on the best understanding they had because of what they were taught.... not from what they studied and read in scripture... they put their faith in what a teacher taught them, instead of the truth the Spirit will show to us.
Be a Berean, in other words...
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we are blessed now to have the scripture and be able to read it; it wasn't always this way.
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

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posthuman said:
there was along period of time during which the church was called 'catholic' meaning general, and it didn't have anything to do with Rome. Rome was only one of several major centers of the church, alongside Smyrna, Alexandria, Jerusalem, Antioch and Constantinople.
It was during this first thousand years that this practice was common, but calling it RCC isn't really accurate, because the church in Rome wasn't really substantially different than the church anywhere else at the time.
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I'll have to research this practice a bit.... I know that there were "odd" beliefs here and there, but I've never heard of putting off baptism until just before death...

There is no shortage of man-made traditions in church history... my dad tells of how churches in the 1800's and early 1900's always covered the communion trays with a white cloth... it became standard. When some of the churches stopped covering the trays, people were outraged... that's unscriptural, the trays are supposed to be covered!

This tradition was simply started to keep flies out of the bread and wine/juice.... had nothing to do with anything scriptural, it was simply an answer to a problem.... but it became tradition/scriptural to do it...
 
B

Beckworth

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Burn1986 said:
Yep Cornelius wasn’t a good example because he was baptized. The point is that while water baptism is important, if a person has a deathbed conversion, gets saved but dies on the way to the baptistery, or in some way isn’t able to get water baptized before death, they will still go to Heaven.
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Do you really think God would let someone “die on the way to the baptistery”? Wasn’t it God who said He was not willing that anyone would perish”? 2 Peter 3:9. You must believe that God either doesn’t LOVE us enough to let us live long enough to be baptized or else He isn’t POWERFUL enough to preserve our life until we get there.
This reminds me of the disciples in John 21. They were worried about whether Jesus was going to let John live forever. Jesus’s answer was: If I want John to live forever, what business is that of yours? You just make sure YOU do what I say (and I will take care of John). So, likewise, if Jesus decides to save some IMAGINARY person or send him to hell, that is not MY business. MY business is to obey Christ, follow Him. I know what He has said. He said, those who “believe and are baptized shall be saved. I must believe Him and obey Him. Whatever happens to that IMAGINARY person is up to him but it in no way excuses me or changes what I must do.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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Beckworth said:
Sorry. God disagrees with you. He said, BAPTISM DOES NOW SAVE US. 1 Peter 3:21. Can’t get any plainer than that!
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Another deluded person. If you read that passage carefully, that means "saves us from a GUILTY CONSCIENCE" once we are saved by grace through faith.
 
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