Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

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Cameron143

Cameron143

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FollowerofShiloh said:
He generally speaking, when we look at who He was talking to in Parables, were the ones who would be used to kill Him. Kind of like a Plan in motion.
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He said He did so because they didn't have the ability to understand.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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Cameron143 said:
It was your example.
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No, the verse plainly states: Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

They did works but it wasn't the works that the Father willed them to do.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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Cameron143 said:
Sure, but He didn't say those were bad things. He did say they had no relationship with Him.
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No He said they did not do the Will of the Father.

Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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FollowerofShiloh said:
No, the verse plainly states: Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

They did works but it wasn't the works that the Father willed them to do.
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But those works are found in the word of God. So they could hear, just not understand that it wasn't works but a relationship with God that is the substance of true salvation...John 17:3.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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Cameron143 said:
But those works are found in the word of God. So they could hear, just not understand that it wasn't works but a relationship with God that is the substance of true salvation...John 17:3.
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I said God did not tell them to do the works. I also said nor were they doing the Will of the Father. And Relationship is correct.
 
S

studier

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FollowerofShiloh said:
Jesus said people can HEAR and reject. So get over your false doctrine.

16 “The one who hears you hears me, and the one who rejects you rejects me, and the one who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

48 The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.

The one who rejects me and does not receive my words <--- you can't reject unless you can first HEAR what to reject.
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VERY NICELY DONE!
Luke10:16
John12:48
It's really not that difficult a concept.
 
S

studier

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Cameron143 said:
Is it true that one must be a doer to become a hearer?
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To be a Hearer one must be a Doer. Hear > Do = a Hearer.
The translated word can actually denote obedience.
Now slip in the Total Depravity model to complicate the simplicity.
 
S

studier

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Cameron143 said:
This is you, right. It clearly says you can't be a hearer until you are a doe
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It clearly says that if you want to make it into that. Ask him to capitalize the h in "hearer" and it's clearer. Or stick with Total Depravity and don't assist but twist.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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FollowerofShiloh said:
God created ALL humans.
To think that when God speaks that a human cannot hear, Knowing that God knows how
to speak to dead people, just shows the ignorance of some claiming to be Christian.
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Does God making you alive while you were dead mean he raped your will? Such strange terminology .:unsure::censored:
 
Magenta

Magenta

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studier said:
VERY NICELY DONE!
Luke10:16
John12:48
It's really not that difficult a concept.
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I can hear you if you speak a foreign language, also. Doesn't mean I comprehend what is said...

The gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing. What do they hear?

Perhaps something like, God loves you, you're going to burn in hell.

Forever.
 
S

studier

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Cameron143 said:
Those in Matthew 7 actually had a large number of works. Their problem was that they had no relationship with Christ...I never knew you.
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Why didn't they have a relationship with Christ?

21 "Not everyone who says to Me,`Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. (Matt. 7:21 NKJ).

Seems doing the Father's will is required to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Cameron143 said:
What people are objecting to is not works, but works as a means to salvation. Once someone is saved, their works actually evidence their salvation. The lack of works for someone claiming to be saved may well be an evidence of the lack of salvation.
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Or maybe just a misunderstanding of what God says is not compensable work.
 
S

studier

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Magenta said:
I can hear you if you speak a foreign language, also. Doesn't mean I comprehend what is said...

The gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing. What do they hear?

Perhaps something like, God loves you, you're going to burn in hell.

Forever.
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And the Gospel is not foolishness to others who hear it and obey it. The whole issue here is who can hear it and understand it and believe it and why?
 
Magenta

Magenta

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studier said:
And the Gospel is not foolishness to others who hear it and obey it. The whole
issue here is who can hear it and understand it and believe it and why?
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Those with ears to hear, hear. To hear some speak, that means some have no ears at all. LOL

But it is not about the physical act of hearing. It is a spiritual issue.

The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are
foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Part of the issue seems to be what some believe the natural man capable of.
 
S

studier

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Magenta said:
Does God making you alive while you were dead mean he raped your will? Such strange terminology .:unsure::censored:
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Strange, even aggressive, but not unbiblical if we consider what Paul wished for those pushing a false doctrine of circumcision.

The @FollowerofShiloh point is made clear by provocation. God does not force salvation on people.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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studier said:
Strange, even aggressive, but not unbiblical if we consider what Paul wished for those pushing a false doctrine of circumcision.

The @FollowerofShiloh point is made clear by provocation. God does not force salvation on people.
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What choice did you make while you were dead and God made you alive?

Was that a rape of your will? Really?????
 
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