Philippians: Paul's "Stairway to Heaven"?

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homwardbound

homwardbound

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Oct 24, 2012
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Pilgrimshope said:
“The Lord God, the Father of the risen Son Jesus (Yashua) is in charge, still to this day, the way in is through the risen Son, not of man works, otherwise man has reason to boast”

its a boast to accept what Jesus taught and believe it’s the truth and follow after him believing his words are true and will come to pass ? How so ?

wouldnt it rather be a boast of I reject the lords own words telling me how to be saved and have eternal life and think there’s another way when he said there isn’t ?

It seems to me if I accept the things the lord said will save my soul and know I need to learn the truth from him to be saved it’s not a boast but an acknowledgement that without him I’m lost and can’t be saved but if I hear and believe him I’ll surely live forever

““I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples. “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. You are my friends if you do what I command. I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:1-15‬ ‭NIV‬‬

is Jesus tesching them to boast about something or to trust and obey the things he told them and they would be fruitful and live ?

Christian’s have to get away from the idea that the obeying the lord Jesus by the gospel is something anyone is boasting about but rather it is hearing what our savior said will save us and believing it learning from God himself also following after those things beginning to apply them to life

Ask yourself is Jesus wrong about eternal judgement when he said this ?

““Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Is paul wrong ?

“God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism. All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:6-12‬ ‭NIV‬‬

was johns heavenly vision of eternal judgement wrong ?

“And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.

Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:12-13, 15‬ ‭

as we learn the Bible we start to think we underersnd it all but then we hear things we didn’t know about or hadn’t heard or read ourselves . Really there’s a pretty simple consistent doctrine of what God is doing .

One aspect that is certain is this

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭

this has been written before n the prophets the gospel and epistles for centuries thousands of years now
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Therefore what must I do, besides, believe God, Son is risen for me too? Oh and simply love others as I am loved first by God through Son? I am in by God, thanks to God and so are all others too, that are sincere in belief toGod too.
I am saying, evil is out and about to trip up anyone it can, to this day (Job 1) anyway it can. one of them is boasting, I got it and you do not got it as I got it attitude, is of flesh nature, not of God (Luke 18:9-14). we all are of flesh and blood. None of us are perfect. Maybe you might be getting a little bit haughty? You decide, I see to not be in pride ever as evil is out and about to get anyone that way, in them thinking they got it, when others compliment them, and then they think, Oh yeah I have been a good boy, haven't I?
1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
  1. Job 1:6
    Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  2. Job 1:7
    And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

There is freed from Fear, for perfect Love, God's casts out all fear
There is freed from fear that is haughty. That I see to watch out for, when other say to me I am good. I am not good, only God is good


Romans 11:17-22

Living Bible



17 But some of these branches from Abraham’s tree, some of the Jews, have been broken off. And you Gentiles who were branches from, we might say, a wild olive tree, were grafted in. So now you, too, receive the blessing God has promised Abraham and his children, sharing in God’s rich nourishment of his own special olive tree.
18 But you must be careful not to brag about being put in to replace the branches that were broken off. Remember that you are important only because you are now a part of God’s tree; you are just a branch, not a root.
19 “Well,” you may be saying, “those branches were broken off to make room for me, so I must be pretty good.”
20 Watch out! Remember that those branches, the Jews, were broken off because they didn’t believe God, and you are there only because you do. Do not be proud; be humble and grateful—and careful. 21 For if God did not spare the branches he put there in the first place, he won’t spare you either.
22 Notice how God is both kind and severe. He is very hard on those who disobey, but very good to you if you continue to love and trust him. But if you don’t, you too will be cut off.
 
SilverFox7

SilverFox7

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Dec 24, 2022
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#62
Pilgrimshope said:
I think honestly because I was letting it get to my head thinking a little too much about myself doing good maybe the lord let me see that I’m still as flawed as ever but he’s giving me grace and not to forget it

i took that lesson from it honestly for a few days there I was really finding it hard to not see myself as this really great example for the church I attend lol got a bit delusional which is out of character I think the lord just set me straight rather gently

your story is alarming and shows the type of world we live in for sure. I think when we begin to acknolwedge that we’re called to live as the lord taught us like your saying there but we also don’t forget that when we fail like I did that say clearly I sinned , but more clearly God is still gracious and forgiving to correct me and forgive me.

I've been there many times myself, brother. When I think I'm doing great and have things under control, that's when I have to eat some "humble pie" to see how rotten at the core I still am and how much I need God to change my heart to reflect His goodness and grace. It's like Paul said himself, "For I know that in me (that is in my flesh) nothing good dwells..." (Rom. 7: 18). When I drift away from God or He needs to remind me of my true nature, it is not a pretty sight to say the least.

I like what Paul has to say about rejoicing and trusting in the Lord as well:

Philippians 2:18-22

New King James Version

18 For the same reason you also be glad and rejoice with me.

19 But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timothy to you shortly, that I also may be encouraged when I know your [a]state. 20 For I have no one like-minded, who will sincerely care for your state.

21 For all seek their own, not the things which are of Christ Jesus. 22 But you know his proven character, that as a son with his father he served with me in the gospel.

Despite the trials we face and the sin that so easily besets us, we can be "glad and rejoice" in the life that Christ has given us. Notice how fondly Paul commends his young apprentice, Timothy, for being "like-minded." I think that's really important - we need to be like-minded with God through the Holy Spirit's power within us, and we need to strive to be like-minded with one another in the Church.

It sounds like Timothy was an exception because Paul laments that "...all seek their own, not the things which are of Christ Jesus." Even as Christians, we can so easily get ensnared in the ways of this world instead of fully committing our lives to Christ. I can certainly attest to that personally, and I have a long way to go to reach that level Paul and Timothy did to have "proven character" focused on serving "in the gospel."
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SilverFox7

SilverFox7

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Dec 24, 2022
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Pilgrimshope said:
I think honestly because I was letting it get to my head thinking a little too much about myself doing good maybe the lord let me see that I’m still as flawed as ever but he’s giving me grace and not to forget it

i took that lesson from it honestly for a few days there I was really finding it hard to not see myself as this really great example for the church I attend lol got a bit delusional which is out of character I think the lord just set me straight rather gently

your story is alarming and shows the type of world we live in for sure. I think when we begin to acknolwedge that we’re called to live as the lord taught us like your saying there but we also don’t forget that when we fail like I did that say clearly I sinned , but more clearly God is still gracious and forgiving to correct me and forgiveme now when my hair is white as much as when it was brown and only had a grey here or there

were called to a very high goal but we’re given a very capable and provisional tool kit and supply of grace and mercy as well to reach for it

if our mind is about following the lord with our heart and mind and life we’re going to notice a lot of falling short in ourselves if we acknolwedge it when. It comes to light he will change it for us and wash it away
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I've been there many times myself, brother. When I think I'm doing great and have things under control, that's when I have to eat some "humble pie" to see how rotten at the core I still am and how much I need God to change my heart to reflect His goodness and grace. It's like Paul said himself, "For I know that in me (that is in my flesh) nothing good dwells..." (Rom. 7: 18). When I drift away from God or He needs to remind me of my true nature, it is not a pretty sight to say the least.

I like what Paul has to say about rejoicing and trusting in the Lord as well:

Philippians 2:18-22

New King James Version

18 For the same reason you also be glad and rejoice with me.

19 But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timothy to you shortly, that I also may be encouraged when I know your [a]state. 20 For I have no one like-minded, who will sincerely care for your state.

21 For all seek their own, not the things which are of Christ Jesus. 22 But you know his proven character, that as a son with his father he served with me in the gospel.

Despite the trials we face and the sin that so easily besets us, we can be "glad and rejoice" in the life that Christ has given us. Notice how fondly Paul commends his young apprentice, Timothy, for being "like-minded." I think that's really important - we need to be like-minded with God through the Holy Spirit's power within us, and we need to strive to be like-minded with one another in the Church.

It sounds like Timothy was an exception because Paul laments that "...all seek their own, not the things which are of Christ Jesus." Even as Christians, we can so easily get ensnared in the ways of this world instead of fully committing our lives to Christ. I can certainly attest to that personally, and I have a long way to go to reach that level Paul and Timothy did to have "proven character" focused on serving "in the gospel."
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

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Amen brother yes you see you have that high goal pauos talking about the pursuit of Christ

air doesn’t matter what stage we are in we just need to get rooted then those little leaves pop up two little leaves not even noticed among a forest but the little things osnt is rooted now and always growing as the rain falls and the sun rises and sets the little leaves grow and soon there’s a little stock later branches and foliage form and grow later small parcels of fruit begin to bud on and on u til you have a healthy fruit tree bearing fruit that others can eat from

the little plant when it roots already had a future existsnce as a tree but without a caretaker pruning and removing the bad diseased branches the tree may get infected and die before it grows

We can and should rejoice brother but also there’s this part of we haven’t gotten there yet whoch many haven’t

Im all for rejoicing in the lord but also when we have failed

“Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭7:9-10‬ ‭

My point is if I’m a believer and I’m just serving the devils Will by my own lusts still this is t a reason to rejoice it’s a reason to let godly sorrow have it’s work in us to induce repentance

theres this too is my point

“Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.

Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.”
‭‭James‬ ‭4:8-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the joy of the lord is irresistible when we begin to take steps of faith in him rather than sit in our dungeon pretending our chains arent gone when a prisoner steps out of the sari dingy cell is when joy forms and comes from the heart

We should have joy in him , we should also feel sorrow and repent of our sins in him which works together to produce true godly joy that doesn’t rely on circumstance

theres what God has done for us and offered freely to us , then there’s what we are taught to do when we begin to believe

Gods working on us but we also have a role working together with him

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. ( what we’re called to do )

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”( what he is doing within us so we can don our part )
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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#65
SilverFox7 said:
I've been there many times myself, brother. When I think I'm doing great and have things under control, that's when I have to eat some "humble pie" to see how rotten at the core I still am and how much I need God to change my heart to reflect His goodness and grace. It's like Paul said himself, "For I know that in me (that is in my flesh) nothing good dwells..." (Rom. 7: 18). When I drift away from God or He needs to remind me of my true nature, it is not a pretty sight to say the least.

I like what Paul has to say about rejoicing and trusting in the Lord as well:

Philippians 2:18-22

New King James Version

18 For the same reason you also be glad and rejoice with me.

19 But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timothy to you shortly, that I also may be encouraged when I know your [a]state. 20 For I have no one like-minded, who will sincerely care for your state.

21 For all seek their own, not the things which are of Christ Jesus. 22 But you know his proven character, that as a son with his father he served with me in the gospel.

Despite the trials we face and the sin that so easily besets us, we can be "glad and rejoice" in the life that Christ has given us. Notice how fondly Paul commends his young apprentice, Timothy, for being "like-minded." I think that's really important - we need to be like-minded with God through the Holy Spirit's power within us, and we need to strive to be like-minded with one another in the Church.

It sounds like Timothy was an exception because Paul laments that "...all seek their own, not the things which are of Christ Jesus." Even as Christians, we can so easily get ensnared in the ways of this world instead of fully committing our lives to Christ. I can certainly attest to that personally, and I have a long way to go to reach that level Paul and Timothy did to have "proven character" focused on serving "in the gospel."
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Yes nite what Paul’s saying the correct frame of mind is “ I haven’t reached my girl of perfection on Christ yet but I press towards tbat high goal “

It’s a pursuit . This is discipleship we have a tescher and we are striving to be more like him tbrough belief in him. Learning from him applying his wisdom to our lives based on the fact that we heard and believed him

think of how Jesus treated his disciples this is us and our means of relationship to him one consistent thing of many he taught then was to follow him believe in him follow after him go where he’s going walk after him he’s our leader

what your describing is that pursuit that’s taken hold of your heart you’ll never be equal to Jesus in this life but your heart is fixed upon him that highest of goals to be just like the son of God . This design keeps us growing as we grow we may think I’ve reached the summit I’m done

about then we reach the summit and see another Bally and peak beyond us and so we take a break a minute and we set out to that next peak that’s surely the summit it keeps us from complacency all the while we have this treasure that is all our hope this promise of Christ that if we stick to him we’re going to live forever with him and not perish
 
SilverFox7

SilverFox7

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#66
Dec 24, 2022
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#66
Pilgrimshope said:
Yes nite what Paul’s saying the correct frame of mind is “ I haven’t reached my girl of perfection on Christ yet but I press towards tbat high goal “

It’s a pursuit . This is discipleship we have a tescher and we are striving to be more like him tbrough belief in him. Learning from him applying his wisdom to our lives based on the fact that we heard and believed him

think of how Jesus treated his disciples this is us and our means of relationship to him one consistent thing of many he taught then was to follow him believe in him follow after him go where he’s going walk after him he’s our leader

what your describing is that pursuit that’s taken hold of your heart you’ll never be equal to Jesus in this life but your heart is fixed upon him that highest of goals to be just like the son of God . This design keeps us growing as we grow we may think I’ve reached the summit I’m done

about then we reach the summit and see another Bally and peak beyond us and so we take a break a minute and we set out to that next peak that’s surely the summit it keeps us from complacency all the while we have this treasure that is all our hope this promise of Christ that if we stick to him we’re going to live forever with him and not perish
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Very well said, brother. Your final paragraph especially reminds me of the great hymn, "Climb Every Mountain", and I love the rendition from one of my favorite musicals, Sound of Music:


Our Christian lives are filled with peaks and valleys, highs and lows. We need to walk through the valley of the shadow of death like David described, and then we get to head to a mountain with Jesus to experience a taste of the transfiguration. And, just when we think we've reached the summit, we realize it is just another peak above the great valley where we see the vast Mountain off in the distance that we need to take one step at a time to reach with Jesus carrying us along the way when we are exhausted.

Paul gives high praise to Timothy, but he also thought quite highly of Epaphroditus:


Philippians 2:25-30

New King James Version

Epaphroditus Praised

25 Yet I considered it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, fellow worker, and fellow soldier, but your messenger and the one who ministered to my need; 26 since he was longing for you all, and was distressed because you had heard that he was sick. 27 For indeed he was sick almost unto death; but God had mercy on him, and not only on him but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow. 28 Therefore I sent him the more eagerly, that when you see him again you may rejoice, and I may be less sorrowful. 29 Receive him therefore in the Lord with all gladness, and hold such men in esteem; 30 because for the work of Christ he came close to death, [a]not regarding his life, to supply what was lacking in your service toward me.

Pilgrim - you're "my brother, fellow worker, and fellow soldier" in the gospel. What a blessing it is to serve with you in these discussion forums. We are brothers in Christ, workers and soldiers who are carrying on the vital work of spreading the glad tidings of Christ Jesus to others.

Even though Paul knows there is a better life awaiting him, Epaphroditus, and all Christians, he still talks about the sorrow we experience when we lose loved ones. I know you've experienced a lot of loses in your life and a big one not too long ago and although we rejoice that our loved ones are resting in the Lord, those of us who are left behind to continue the battle still mourn and suffer. It can take years and even the rest of our lives to come to a full measure of peace not having beloved family members and friends by our side.

Epaphroditus was committed to the "work of Christ" and almost died from the serious illness he had. His focus was outward on serving Christ, Paul, and the fired-up congregation at Philippi. What a great example on the type of zeal and focus we should have for the work of Christ as well!
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

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SilverFox7 said:
Very well said, brother. Your final paragraph especially reminds me of the great hymn, "Climb Every Mountain", and I love the rendition from one of my favorite musicals, Sound of Music:


Our Christian lives are filled with peaks and valleys, highs and lows. We need to walk through the valley of the shadow of death like David described, and then we get to head to a mountain with Jesus to experience a taste of the transfiguration. And, just when we think we've reached the summit, we realize it is just another peak above the great valley where we see the vast Mountain off in the distance that we need to take one step at a time to reach with Jesus carrying us along the way when we are exhausted.

Paul gives high praise to Timothy, but he also thought quite highly of Epaphroditus:


Philippians 2:25-30

New King James Version

Epaphroditus Praised

25 Yet I considered it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, fellow worker, and fellow soldier, but your messenger and the one who ministered to my need; 26 since he was longing for you all, and was distressed because you had heard that he was sick. 27 For indeed he was sick almost unto death; but God had mercy on him, and not only on him but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow. 28 Therefore I sent him the more eagerly, that when you see him again you may rejoice, and I may be less sorrowful. 29 Receive him therefore in the Lord with all gladness, and hold such men in esteem; 30 because for the work of Christ he came close to death, [a]not regarding his life, to supply what was lacking in your service toward me.

Pilgrim - you're "my brother, fellow worker, and fellow soldier" in the gospel. What a blessing it is to serve with you in these discussion forums. We are brothers in Christ, workers and soldiers who are carrying on the vital work of spreading the glad tidings of Christ Jesus to others.

Even though Paul knows there is a better life awaiting him, Epaphroditus, and all Christians, he still talks about the sorrow we experience when we lose loved ones. I know you've experienced a lot of loses in your life and a big one not too long ago and although we rejoice that our loved ones are resting in the Lord, those of us who are left behind to continue the battle still mourn and suffer. It can take years and even the rest of our lives to come to a full measure of peace not having beloved family members and friends by our side.

Epaphroditus was committed to the "work of Christ" and almost died from the serious illness he had. His focus was outward on serving Christ, Paul, and the fired-up congregation at Philippi. What a great example on the type of zeal and focus we should have for the work of Christ as well!
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Indeed brother I miss my sis every day , but the lord gets to see her everyday so I’ll be along someday as well .

ive attended lots of funerals in life , they always read psalm 23

“The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: He leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: He leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: And I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭23:1-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬


i wonder though , isnt this psalm about our lives on earth where death is always hanging over us casting it’s somber shadow ?

the valley of the shadow of death seems to be this worldly place we traverse now and the lord is our shepherd leading us through the valley to the peak just out of view
 
SilverFox7

SilverFox7

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Pilgrimshope said:
i wonder though , isnt this psalm about our lives on earth where death is always hanging over us casting it’s somber shadow ?

the valley of the shadow of death seems to be this worldly place we traverse now and the lord is our shepherd leading us through the valley to the peak just out of view
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Yes it is, brother. Death is our enemy in this life, and his sickle is hanging over our heads at all times. As you allude to along with David's hope as well, "I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever":

Revelation 21:4

New King James Version

4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

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SilverFox7 said:
Yes it is, brother. Death is our enemy in this life, and his sickle is hanging over our heads at all times. As you allude to along with David's hope as well, "I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever":

Revelation 21:4

New King James Version

4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
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i love the book of Hebrews it truly is a revelation and journey through details of the faith

We have this problem for mankind

“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; ( thou shalt not do this thing lest ye surely die ) and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

now humans know that without fail we are born , we live a time a short time and then we die. We leave our children behind and they also live and then without fail they die . There’s always an inevitability that we have to end , say goodbye to all those we love forever when they or we die , a sadness that comes with being human when we acknolwedge this shadow hanging over us death that’s always present in the world for man inescapable we believed and knew and so then we have the gospel the real “revelation” of Jesus Christ and his kingdom but , not an apacolypse like johns book in the end of the Bible rather almighty God revealed in the flesh of a man who walked among us full of grace and truth offering eternal life to any who would believe and call upon his name

We look our hero

“But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:9-11, 14-18‬ ‭

In newer language the end there

“For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, ( because there wasn’t any man worthy of this on earth )

and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:17-18‬ ‭NIV‬‬

It could also read “ he is able to “strengthen through fellowship “ those who are tempted and help them

it all begins here But there are so many details and nuanced aspects found throughout the scripture that give understanding but there’s a doorway where we enter in

It’s here

“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:14-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and the first detail that provides the map is here

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#70
Oct 24, 2012
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#70
SilverFox7 said:
I've been there many times myself, brother. When I think I'm doing great and have things under control, that's when I have to eat some "humble pie" to see how rotten at the core I still am and how much I need God to change my heart to reflect His goodness and grace. It's like Paul said himself, "For I know that in me (that is in my flesh) nothing good dwells..." (Rom. 7: 18). When I drift away from God or He needs to remind me of my true nature, it is not a pretty sight to say the least.

I like what Paul has to say about rejoicing and trusting in the Lord as well:

Philippians 2:18-22

New King James Version

18 For the same reason you also be glad and rejoice with me.

19 But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timothy to you shortly, that I also may be encouraged when I know your [a]state. 20 For I have no one like-minded, who will sincerely care for your state.

21 For all seek their own, not the things which are of Christ Jesus. 22 But you know his proven character, that as a son with his father he served with me in the gospel.

Despite the trials we face and the sin that so easily besets us, we can be "glad and rejoice" in the life that Christ has given us. Notice how fondly Paul commends his young apprentice, Timothy, for being "like-minded." I think that's really important - we need to be like-minded with God through the Holy Spirit's power within us, and we need to strive to be like-minded with one another in the Church.

It sounds like Timothy was an exception because Paul laments that "...all seek their own, not the things which are of Christ Jesus." Even as Christians, we can so easily get ensnared in the ways of this world instead of fully committing our lives to Christ. I can certainly attest to that personally, and I have a long way to go to reach that level Paul and Timothy did to have "proven character" focused on serving "in the gospel."
Click to expand...
You got it correct. About our first born flesh, that I see needs to be reckoned as dead daily. Thanks to Son's willing death first. For us to be willing to be as dead as said in Romans 6, by Faith, believe and trust to God Father of risen Son for us to be given the new life, here and now, led by God in God's Holy Spirit for us.
John 4:23-24 Learning this new mind set. Romans 12:1-2
I looked at those two verses and said , to God, but I am not Holy, therefore how can I do it, I can't, I want to, yet I can't

This I heard, But I am Holy, Howard, and I make you this way, by your continued trust to me to reveal this truth in you and through you.
I replied, yeah, but I try, and can't.
Yes, that is why I sent my son to the entire world to die once for everyone as reconciled, in his shed blood, where everyone is forgiven by me through my Son for each, to be new as born again in my Spirit and Truth.
What then do I do? Trust me, even if you sin again, trust me to remove the thorns from you, and leave a thorn in you, that harms no one. to remember, it is I that have got you in trust to me to do the work you need to do through you. Will you stop and rest and trust me to get those thorns you are worried over out of you? ( 2 Cor 12:7-10)
An allegory to look at: We the people are like an onion. When an onion gets peeled, it causes tears to the person peeling the onion.
Now see God's tears for us the people God created as perfect, before the unbelief of the first Adam, that brought sin about to all born in flesh and blood afterwards. that got worse over time.
God by Son restores us to the first state of Adam the first, through Adam the second (Jesus) to believe God over Adam the first that got unbelief and, so, he ate in "Unbelief". Then, God took it all away in Son (John 1:29) all the nasty nines and dirty dozen, all but "Unbelief". left us the people to believe between God and you each personally. Then one sees, when believes God personally.
God came to earth to first reconcile us all as have not ever sinned ( 2 Cor 5:17-20). Leaving, left for us to believe God in risen son and be new from God Father's view' as perfect, even though we all know we are not first born perfect. Second birth we are, in humility.
Therefore, Romans 12:1, is God by Son, makes us Holy as if never sinned (Col 1:21-23). So we can approach the throne of grace (psalm 100:4) in confidence and ask for the new life offered in the risen Christ to lead us in God's Holy Spirit. (Psalm 103:12) By Faith we are made whole and saved and thus do new, knowing truth, we all know what is right and what is wrong, no matter how anyone slices or dices whatever they do, and states they are righteous, usually are not and each person knows this in themselves.
therefore knowing what is right, then do right, no excusing wrong anymore
Face the music between God and you and be new in humility to this truth
Being made wise as a serpent, remaining harmless as a dove (Matt 10:16-20)
Love from God to all, proven in the resurrected Son for us to be new in and love the same to all in this mercy and truth given by son to us to see in belief that does not quit
To see the center of an onion, after peeled off, has a sweet smelling savor. Hallelujah!
 
SilverFox7

SilverFox7

Well-known member
#71
Dec 24, 2022
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#71
homwardbound said:
You got it correct. About our first born flesh, that I see needs to be reckoned as dead daily. Thanks to Son's willing death first. For us to be willing to be as dead as said in Romans 6, by Faith, believe and trust to God Father of risen Son for us to be given the new life, here and now, led by God in God's Holy Spirit for us.
John 4:23-24 Learning this new mind set. Romans 12:1-2
I looked at those two verses and said , to God, but I am not Holy, therefore how can I do it, I can't, I want to, yet I can't

This I heard, But I am Holy, Howard, and I make you this way, by your continued trust to me to reveal this truth in you and through you.
I replied, yeah, but I try, and can't.
Yes, that is why I sent my son to the entire world to die once for everyone as reconciled, in his shed blood, where everyone is forgiven by me through my Son for each, to be new as born again in my Spirit and Truth.
What then do I do? Trust me, even if you sin again, trust me to remove the thorns from you, and leave a thorn in you, that harms no one. to remember, it is I that have got you in trust to me to do the work you need to do through you. Will you stop and rest and trust me to get those thorns you are worried over out of you? ( 2 Cor 12:7-10)
An allegory to look at: We the people are like an onion. When an onion gets peeled, it causes tears to the person peeling the onion.
Now see God's tears for us the people God created as perfect, before the unbelief of the first Adam, that brought sin about to all born in flesh and blood afterwards. that got worse over time.
God by Son restores us to the first state of Adam the first, through Adam the second (Jesus) to believe God over Adam the first that got unbelief and, so, he ate in "Unbelief". Then, God took it all away in Son (John 1:29) all the nasty nines and dirty dozen, all but "Unbelief". left us the people to believe between God and you each personally. Then one sees, when believes God personally.
God came to earth to first reconcile us all as have not ever sinned ( 2 Cor 5:17-20). Leaving, left for us to believe God in risen son and be new from God Father's view' as perfect, even though we all know we are not first born perfect. Second birth we are, in humility.
Therefore, Romans 12:1, is God by Son, makes us Holy as if never sinned (Col 1:21-23). So we can approach the throne of grace (psalm 100:4) in confidence and ask for the new life offered in the risen Christ to lead us in God's Holy Spirit. (Psalm 103:12) By Faith we are made whole and saved and thus do new, knowing truth, we all know what is right and what is wrong, no matter how anyone slices or dices whatever they do, and states they are righteous, usually are not and each person knows this in themselves.
therefore knowing what is right, then do right, no excusing wrong anymore
Face the music between God and you and be new in humility to this truth
Being made wise as a serpent, remaining harmless as a dove (Matt 10:16-20)
Love from God to all, proven in the resurrected Son for us to be new in and love the same to all in this mercy and truth given by son to us to see in belief that does not quit
To see the center of an onion, after peeled off, has a sweet smelling savor. Hallelujah!
Click to expand...
Great stuff, and I will provide more in-depth commentary next week - I am heading North shortly to witness to some agnostics who recently lost a loved one. Pray that God uses me to comfort and witness.
 
SilverFox7

SilverFox7

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#72
Dec 24, 2022
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#72
Pilgrimshope said:
now humans know that without fail we are born , we live a time a short time and then we die. We leave our children behind and they also live and then without fail they die . There’s always an inevitability that we have to end , say goodbye to all those we love forever when they or we die , a sadness that comes with being human when we acknolwedge this shadow hanging over us death that’s always present in the world for man inescapable we believed and knew and so then we have the gospel the real “revelation” of Jesus Christ and his kingdom but , not an apacolypse like johns book in the end of the Bible rather almighty God revealed in the flesh of a man who walked among us full of grace and truth offering eternal life to any who would believe and call upon his name
Click to expand...
This is excellent.

You are a man of God who has amassed a wealth of wisdom through in-depth study and application of God's Word.

Thank you for sharing - I will comment in more detail in the near future!
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#73
Sep 2, 2020
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#73
SilverFox7 said:
This is excellent.

You are a man of God who has amassed a wealth of wisdom through in-depth study and application of God's Word.

Thank you for sharing - I will comment in more detail in the near future!
Click to expand...
Really I'm an old hillbilly , who's failed as much as the next person . Ain't got much in the way of sense but what happened was I prayed alot and then co timued reading the word and thinking about what he was saying. So now I have a,it if thoughts and opinions right ir wrong that I seem to be compelled to share . Honestly I hope I don't know more than I've lived up to through life but I can't seem to drop so full steam ahead lol


We all have some contributions and some of them are good I feel like others I'm sure I haven't figured out yet or better said , I haven't let sunk in yet . It's all there but also sometimes we hide our eyes and stop,our ears from fear I say his inky by self observations reflecting in the decades gone by of my own self so maybe were all kind of limited to our own worlds experience as well


You are certainly lived and appreciated and I always consider your words as coming from a true faithful brother in Christ . You are appreciated and the time you offer
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#74
Oct 24, 2012
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#74
SilverFox7 said:
Great stuff, and I will provide more in-depth commentary next week - I am heading North shortly to witness to some agnostics who recently lost a loved one. Pray that God uses me to comfort and witness.
Click to expand...
You got it,
God through you, surprises me every time I am used by God to speak to others and I se it was not me
Luke 21:14
Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer;
Luke 21:15
for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist.
Ephesians 6:19
and for me, that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel,'
Revelation 10:9
So I went to the angel and said to him, “Give me the little book.” And he said to me, “Take and eat it; and it will make your stomach bitter, but it will be as sweet as honey in your mouth.”

Now eat and drink God's word in love and mercy given you too.
 
SilverFox7

SilverFox7

Well-known member
#75
Dec 24, 2022
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Grand Rapids, Michigan
#75
homwardbound said:
God by Son restores us to the first state of Adam the first, through Adam the second (Jesus) to believe God over Adam the first that got unbelief and, so, he ate in "Unbelief". Then, God took it all away in Son (John 1:29) all the nasty nines and dirty dozen, all but "Unbelief". left us the people to believe between God and you each personally. Then one sees, when believes God personally.
Click to expand...
We can be grateful as God's children that our gracious Lord has washed us clean from the sins of Adam (our choice to rebel against God and establish our own way of life here on earth under Satan's rule), and we have been blessed to partake of the Tree of Life (belief in Jesus, forgiveness from sin by His death, and having a new life in His resurrection through the Holy Spirit living in our minds, hearts, and souls):

Philippians 3:1-3

New King James Version


1. Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. For me to write the same things to you is not tedious, but for you it is safe.
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation! 3 For we are the circumcision, who worship [a]God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh,

We should rejoice in the Lord for the salvation He has given us. We seek to worship God in "spirit and truth" as Jesus admonished (John 4:24), and we need to avoid and reject the evil in this world and our own sinful nature. Our confidence is no longer in the flesh - we rejoice and have confidence in Christ Jesus who has given us new life in our personal and sincere belief in Him as you express very well in your posting.
 
SilverFox7

SilverFox7

Well-known member
#76
Dec 24, 2022
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Grand Rapids, Michigan
#76
Pilgrimshope said:
now humans know that without fail we are born , we live a time a short time and then we die. We leave our children behind and they also live and then without fail they die . There’s always an inevitability that we have to end , say goodbye to all those we love forever when they or we die , a sadness that comes with being human when we acknolwedge this shadow hanging over us death that’s always present in the world for man inescapable we believed and knew and so then we have the gospel the real “revelation” of Jesus Christ and his kingdom but , not an apacolypse like johns book in the end of the Bible rather almighty God revealed in the flesh of a man who walked among us full of grace and truth offering eternal life to any who would believe and call upon his name
Click to expand...
You sum up our lives quite well here, Pilgrim. Our lives are but a vapor and apart from God all is vanity, a worthless chasing after the wind as Solomon experienced and expressed in Ecclesiastes. Look at how Paul draws upon his extensive qualifications yet realizes the only credential that ultimately matters is his relationship with Jesus:

Philippians 3:4-7

New King James Version

4 though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ.

If anyone could have faith in his own righteousness and strength, Paul followed the letter of the law about as well as any human could by his own strength. However, Paul realizes that his confidence in the flesh is rubbish. We are powerless to live a truly righteous life apart from the grace and strength God provides to us.

Paul sums it all up by saying that all our privileges, accomplishments, wealth, and power we have achieved in this life should be "counted loss for Christ." He is our foundation and Rock upon which every aspect of our lives should be built. All the glory goes to Him!
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
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Oct 24, 2012
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#77
SilverFox7 said:
and we need to avoid and reject the evil in this world and our own sinful nature.
Click to expand...
To avoid sin as just said by you above, puts people in sin over and over again, trying not to sin. What?????? Then there are those that accomplish this, or so they think, and pride enters in them. (Luke 18:9-14) A self righteousness gets them and others see their arrogance, but they do not see it, being a "Betty better than others" attitude of the flesh nature controlling them. Not trusting God (yet claiming they are) not seeing it is finished for them ( to not be under Law anymore) to be new in love and mercy to all, no matter what others do ( to do that, one has to be reckoned dead to first birth daily, Romans 6:1-12). since God has pardoned everyone (1 John 2:1-2) for their wrongs, which is done in Son Jesus by God for us in love to us, we all are pardoned in the death, burial of Son Jesus. There is no motivation to change in the death, burial, only.
The Motivation to change is in the risen Life, married to the king, no need to go to any more trash cans to eat, to thirst, no thirst ever needed again in the risen Life, yet in the death and burial only we the people are left to do as is done, which no flesh can do perfect ever. Therefore daily reckon self dead to sin by Son for you.
Sin now today is nothing more than "Unbelief" to God Father of risen Son for us the people to stand in, even if sin again, why? Because standing in being and remaining forgiven by God. God trains us new in how to walk away from sin, at least me this God has been doing in and through me from day one I first believed God. You, I bet too, as well as many others reading this too, thank God y'all. Eph 1:1-13
Believe, receive and see. Continue in belief even if do not feel like it,
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#78
Oct 24, 2012
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#78
SilverFox7 said:
and we need to avoid and reject the evil in this world and our own sinful nature. Our confidence is no longer in the flesh
Click to expand...
We, at least I see to let go of self in the process of God never leaving us or forsaking us as we each grow up into maturity as God permits this for each one of us, I do not see as I first saw on the first day I chose to believe God, I see deeper now in humility of this truth given us to stand in or not, knowing I do not deserve to have it or use sin any longer to get away with sin. I need God, I glory in my need as in 2 Cor 12:7-10
 
SilverFox7

SilverFox7

Well-known member
#79
Dec 24, 2022
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#79
Pilgrimshope said:
Really I'm an old hillbilly , who's failed as much as the next person . Ain't got much in the way of sense but what happened was I prayed alot and then co timued reading the word and thinking about what he was saying. So now I have a,it if thoughts and opinions right ir wrong that I seem to be compelled to share . Honestly I hope I don't know more than I've lived up to through life but I can't seem to drop so full steam ahead lol
Click to expand...
I'm just a simple country boy at heart myself, brother. Soaking in God's Word, meditation, and prayer certainly draw us closer to God, and they stir up the Holy Spirit within us to think and live as Jesus did. Look at the all-out commitment from Paul to His calling:

Philippians 3:8-10

New King James Version


8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ

9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;

10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,

Just as Jesus had His focus on the Father and completing His work, Paul was laser focused on Jesus Christ and learning more about Him to deepen their relationship. Paul knew his "righteousness" was but "filthy rags" (Isa. 64:6), and the law was not going to save him. He needed "faith in Christ" to develop true righteousness that can only come from "God by faith."

Paul wanted to know the power of Christ's resurrection and was willing to share in His sufferings and even die for the sake of the gospel and the Church. While I have the knowledge, I am certainly not even close to Paul's level of conviction. Yes, I am willing to suffer and die for Jesus if it's His will, but I will certainly need to be empowered with His faith to accomplish this. No way could I do this through my own power - I am too selfish and weak at the core.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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#80
Jul 3, 2015
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#80

Philippians 4:4
One again you have inspired me to update an older panel... :)
 
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