Thorn in Paul's body

7 And to keep me from being too elated by the abundance of revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan, to harass me, to keep me from being too elated. 8 Three times I besought the Lord about this, that it should leave me; 9 but he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness. 2 Cor 12

Your input on the thorn??

Does anyone see Paul dealing with a sin??

a common interpretation of this is that Paul may have had chronic eye trouble.

two things speak to that directly in scripture, one being that he was temporarily blinded when Christ called him, and the other here -

it's speculated that after his experience meeting Jesus he had continuing trouble with his sight for the rest of his life. reading this section of Galatians it fits well with the text that he may have stopped there originally because something like migraines or blurry vision, some malady having to do with his eyes, made it impossible for him to keep traveling.

i've heard this from several different preachers, but not sure what if anything about it was written in the early church writings...

🤔

Galatians 6:11-12 KJV - Ye see how large a letter I have written unto you with mine own hand.
12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.

Galatians 6 also.

The reason I say that Paul was dealing with a sin is because of Grace. Grace is unmerited forgiveness for sins.


For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God—


For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

dealing with his unredeemed flesh body, that does not please God, Romans 8

I agree but it doesn't affect salvation

Grace, that is God's given grace by Son Jesus is sufficient. yet we each in a flesh body that cannot please God which is unredeemed, Romans 8:3. Therefore be dead, to sin: trust Son in belief to God in this as truth to you, Christ is risen, to never die again and take away anymore sin. This is for you, me and all others too. (John 19:30) (Romans 6:12), read the whole chapter, slowly, ask God to interpret it for you in you and then trust God in love and mercy to work this out through you too, (Phil 1:6). You no longer work for what is given. A gift cannot be earned
Under Law, (to have to do) (Romans 7) creates sin in us the first born person. And grabs a hold of it through a thought mindset of I better or else, attitude (Romans 12:2) of religion taking control over you the person. People not seeing, we all put our pants on, one leg at a time. Whoever anyone follows, gets a hold put on them in that other persons thoughts.

2 Corinthians 5:16
Authorized (King James) Version


16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
she are made alive in Spirit and Truth, that saves our soul, not our flesh

The risen Life is where salvation is at. The reconciliation, forgiveness had to happen first, to clear the deck to be saved by God in the risen Son. Married to God, as God has put out this proposal to us all through Son's death, burial as proof of death, then most important the resurrection, for us to be new in God's Spirit and truth too.
This is as being a prostitute, that gets a pardon from prostitution. "That is great news, yet there is no motive to change, until accepting the marriage proposal to the King, Lord of Lords. When accepts this and marries, the prostitute will be a queen. Think she will change?
Saved by the resurrected life, restored in the death first to be proposed to marry. all are now called through the risen Son
The mystery of marriage, revealed now in the risen Son.

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Grace saves our soul but sin damages the flesh but we are saved by faith in Christ Jesus

learn the difference, trust God not self or anyone else to get this truth in you to lead you as born new from God, in risen Son
to be made wise as a serpent, and remain harmless as a dove. the remain harmless is the hard part. Still learning daily and practicing new daily in trust to God Son is raised for me too, where the new life is given in God's spirit and truth, from God Father of Son the two married as One (Won, for us too)

yes, that is why God came to earth in Son Jesus to first reconcile us all to himself, forgave us to have a relationship with us, to teach us how to say no to unrighteousness humbly.
We can now approach the throne of grace in confidence and thankfulness, and ask for the new life offered in the risen Son Jesus. Believe, receive and see, as we each are learning new daily in trust to the King
God plucks the thorns, by our acceptance of God's grace, not having our own pleasures in mind anymore,
As, James speaks of in asking amiss, is why we do not get. the wrong motives in asking, keeps me from eating at the King's table.

The flesh is not redeemed, and is why all flesh to this day still dies

Romans 8
Authorized (King James) Version


8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 6:11-15
Authorized (King James) Version


11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

this, reconciliation is not meant to be misused and abuse anyone else=, not even self. That is what the Corinthians did, misused grace given them, and is why Paul wrote them.

I think it relates to Paul’s eye problem

“Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:13-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a thorn in the flesh is meaning a hindrance to his ministry an infirmity that made it harder for him to acc give his mission . I think he was asking God to heal his eyes because they were hindering him , but Gods response was essentially “ no , my grace will see you through in spite of the thorn you bear “

“And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭12:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He’s adressing a weakness in Paul’s flesh Paul eas hoping it would be removed to make it easier but he responds how gods grace shines through when there’s a physical issue a weakness , gods grace can overcome our physical issues and make us fruitful even though we have a struggle in the flesh

pauls adressing a physical infirmity he asked for it to be removed but it remained and Gods grace strengthened him to accomplish his goals even with his thorn

“And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭12:7‬ ‭

a Paul eas given a physical infirmity because the revelations he was receiving were so true moor rant and big it kept him from flirting in his own worth and abilities and kept him focused on the grace he needed daily to accomplish his tasks

aim guessing it’s an eye issue because he makes references such as talking about how large the letters he writes are , and also explaining that his infirmity brought him to preach at Galatia , and then he says of them how they receives him lovingly he says “ I had that infirmity that brought me to you and you received me and cared for me I testify that if you could have you would have taken out your own eyes and given them to me “

at here are a few references he makes that suggest he had an eyes issue after he was converted which given the circumstance also sort of fits

“And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus. And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink. And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭9:8-9, 18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It seems God used this issue of sight to keep Paul from exalting himself

“lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations,…there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.”

physical issues have a loud voice inside the person

"to buffet me" literally means to strike or repeated blows

But it’s not a literal thorn he’s talking about is the thing , not a literal messenger from Satan to literally buffet him , he’s clearly talking about an infirmity of his flesh in a spiritual manner.

“this arthritus beats me to death almost every day “ is what i might write . And do you know the words arthritus can speak the message it repeats “ “ boy you’ve sure gotten old and broken z , your body just isn’t capable now , you aren’t capable anymore , tomorrow will hurt worse ect these aren’t from God tbey come from a thorn in my own flesh and bones . We all have issues n the world sometimes not physical

Any persietsnt hindering or painful or difficult issue one has , can be referred to as “ a thorn in my rear end “ a pain in the hiney “ Paul’s letters are written from this type of perspective in many areas where he uses phrases to sort of paint a very colorful vision of what he’s saying

This is how those terms take root . It literally hurts and hinders us to have a literal thorn stuck in our flesh “ Paul and also jesus many times uses the literal description of a literal thing , and they are trying to convey a spiritual message we can understand , by relating the literal , that is described ehoch human minds grasp.

i can write a paragraph or say something like “ this arthritus is a constant thorn in my rear end “ and convey an understanding through the fellowship of understanding dong a literal thing like having a thorn stuck in our flesh …

As fun as playing with speculation is its not truth and I am not here to offend anyone if so forgive me. A messenger was sent to me to buffet me Paul writes. Hmm since many Christians use this for almost any problem they have lets look at what's written not adding something to it that is not written nor hinted at. Now in your life have you been given "abundance of revelations" that a messenger from Satan was sent to you to buffet you to keep you from becoming proud, conceited, exalted above measure? That's why it was sent to Paul what's your reason? It says a messenger not some thing or some sickness. Odd well if this was written "a messenger from God was sent to me" how would we understand, interpret that? That right there is just speculation.

Any time this comes up some things that are suggested that go against Gods word meaning He gave a promise already that God would have to then brake to do what some think He does or allows. To know if we humble ourselves before God He will exalt us in due time. Well why do some run with the negative not something like, Satan was trying to make sure God didn't exalt him. God has done this in the past (hello OT) and got more people to come to Him. Then some will try to take other scriptures out of context to then tie them together to make it His word, say something it does not.

Speculation and words by many scholars.
"Again its being speculated about Pauls thorn. One "guess" is it was some illness of the eyes because he wrote the Galatians with letters and they were willing to give him their eyes. No where does it say or suggest Paul had eye problems. Some liberals say the thorn was epilepsy and that his conversation experience on the word to Damascus was among the many seizures which is unthinkable! Some think it was malarial fever. The spirit buffeted (beat, struck as with the fist) and tortured him. The devil continuously slapped the apostle on the face, as the present subjunctive tense of the verb shows. This Paul followed the story of his most blessed experience in life (2-4) with that of his deepest humiliation."

So in 63 years 55+ of them in the lord this what happened to Paul has never happened in my life. I have never been given abundance of revelations. Yeah the why it happened matters most.

Possibly. I believe that he had a guilt problem.

The "thorn in the flesh" is figurative, but a messenger from Satan to buffet him...I take literally. There's nothing in the text that tells me not to take it literal. Just my opinion.

A messenger of God = an angel
A messenger of Satan = a fallen angel