Dietary laws, do you keep them?

Hi @Genez

Well, thanks for clearing that up, but it wasn't where I was going on the subject. I agree with you, I think, that God has, since the days of Noah, allowed that man can eat just about anything that moves on the earth. Yet, I'm pretty sure that Noah would have understood that didn't mean to eat some animal that he found dead 10 days ago. It is only within the confines of the Jewish people, that God gave such specific dietary restrictions. Now if it were for health reasons, then that would mean that God really doesn't care about the rest of us because He's told us that it's ok to eat pretty much everything.

The God I know doesn't work like that. That's why I'm fairly well convicted that the dietary restrictions were, much like the not mixing clothing fibers, a command to keep His people from easily intermingling with the Gentiles. But only until they had completed the part of the work of His plan of salvation that required their participation. Now that the Scriptures have been recorded and compiled and Jesus has come and paid the price for sin, there is no longer a need for the Jewish religious practices.

As I understand the Scriptures, God raised up a people to be His people from the generations of Abraham. That His purpose in doing that is, as Paul alludes to, that they were entrusted with the very oracles of God. But now that's done. Those oracles have all been written down and God has now given mankind a full and complete accounting of all that He has done that we live and can have eternal life with Him. They were also to culminate their work in God's plan of salvation by being the very people that He used to sacrifice His Son for all of mankind. God instructed the Jews how to celebrate the Passover and then called upon them to do the work of actually doing the final Passover sacrifice for sin. But now that's all done. The work of the Jew, in God's plan, is complete.

Of course, God's word does still hold out promises to the Jews. The fact that they are now in their homeland again was a promise that God made in the old covenant. He has foretold to us that He is going to bring Israel back to their land and He has now done that, too. God loves the Jewish people. Despite their stiff-necked disobedience, they did get the job done. Now, that doesn't mean, of course, that every one who presents as a Jew will be saved. That's still going to require that any Jew since Jesus' sacrifice walk over to the Jesus group and leave the ancient practices of Judaism behind. Now it's time for all of those who will be saved, to walk in the light and the life of God's Messiah...Jesus, the Christ.

God bless you,
Ted

Could you quote some of these Scriptures? I assume you are referring to Isaiah 65 and 66? Those do seem to be second coming passages and make it sound like God will slay all the swine eaters, however in the light of the new covenant should we interpret it that way?

In the new covenant there was a letter sent to the gentiles in Acts 15, and it includes abstaining from BLOOD and meat sacrificed to idols (and fornication, but thats not food related), so two things regarding food. Why didn't they just write "abstain from unclean meats" ? Would of made it a lot easier in my opinion.

Could you share your insights on this? I am always willing to change my mind if given scriptural evidence

The same chapter talks about new moons and sabbaths, where do you draw the line? Why not get circumcised since its an "eternal" ordinance given to Abraham?

The issue with sabbath keeping as well is that biblically, you cannot keep it. The bible requires animal sacrifices during the sabbath:


Numbers 28:9,10
And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof:

and many others.

So many epidemics were caused historically because of a lack of sewerage infrastructure.

Here is an example.

Because of the high levels of unmanaged waste, epidemics of infectious diseases were commonplace in New York. The city battled outbreaks of smallpox, typhoid, malaria, yellow fever, cholera, and tuberculosis. In 1849, a rash of cholera struck the city, killing more than five thousand people.

It is amazing the difference to health sewerage pipes make to a city.

Become a vegetarian and you don't need to worry too much about food laws.

I do believe that we were commanded by Jesus to love others, that is the priority.

The law merely reveals that we are a crooked people at heart.

The law carries no righteousness with it.

Hence, obedience to the law is a useless pursuit.

Focus on Jesus.

It's not a line I draw, as I am not God.

A new moon is how one determined months in bible days since they didn't have a calendar system. A New Moon, just means new month.

The Sabbath is a commandment of God, so any disagreement there needs to be taken up with God.

Sacrifices ended at the Cross and were fulfilled in Jesus Heb 10:1-22 there is no sacrifices in the Ten Commandments anywhere Exodus 20- sacrifices were added for breaking God's law.

Circumcision of the heart is an eternal ordinance Romans 2:29 but physical circumcision was discussed to death in scripture such as in Romans, Acts, Galatians and Paul came to the conclusion circumcision or uncircumcision is not what matters- but keeping the commandments of God matters 1 Cor 7:19

What are you talking about?

Swine eaters in Isaiah's day referred to a bad mental attitude... not a health code. They defy God's order at that time.

>>>>Why didn't they just write "abstain from unclean meats" ? Would of made it a lot easier in my opinion.<<<<

Because religion is slow and stupid in its need to change and adjust to newly introduced truth.
We still have a lot of that kind of thinking today.

It is like a Catholic who who thinks he is righteous, keeps thinking we need to say Rosary and pray to Mary.
The Bible contains the errors of men as well as their right thinking.

Not everything stated by believers in the Bible is free of error. But, are errors in thinking kept on record to show
us that even men of God go through phases of coming out of error, and to let us know we are not alone when
we find our self doing some erroneous things we clung to while finally going on into maturity.

In Christ.... grace and peace

Brilliant. Thank you for the answer. Isn't circumcision one of the commandments of God?

I would argue the commandments Paul talks about are the new covenant ones.

.
Some years ago I heard tell of an elite Christian bragging to their pastor
that they were a vegetarian just like Man was intended to be back in the
very beginning.

The pastor replied: "Very nearly every one of those vegetarians were
destroyed in the Flood".
_

There is nothing about circumcision in the Ten Commandments Exodus 20

Sin is the same in the New Covenant as it is in the Old Covenant- Breaking God's law, the Ten Commandments 1 John 3:4 Rom 7:7 James 2:10-12 Mat 5:19-30

Jesus came to save us from our sins Mat 1:21, we are not saved in sin, so of course it is still a sin to break God's law. The New Covenant is based on better promises Heb 8:6 and now it has God doing in the NC - He is the one writing His laws in our hearts and minds Heb 8:10 and enabling us to keep through love and faith John 14:15-18 Rom 3:31 Rev 14:12, which is a much better promise than us doing on our own efforts. Exo 19:8

So you would argue the 10 commandments are distinct from the rest of the law of Moses?

Yes, for many reasons but some highlights....

God wrote the Ten Commandments with His own finger Exo 31:18 Exo 32:18- there is no greater Authority
Only the Ten Commandments was placed inside the ark of the Covenant Exo 40:20 that is revealed in heaven Rev 11:19. The Ten Commandments is the law that defines what sin is when broken Rom 7:7 James 2:10-12 Mat 5:19-30

The law of Moses was added because of transgression Gal 3:19 was handwritten by Moses in a book placed outside as a witness against Deut 31:24-28 for breaking what was inside the ark, the Ten Commandments.

These two sets of laws are very different, but sadly most don't understand the differences which is why they get very confused with some of the NT writings. If one would stick with what Jesus lived and taught would know we are not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat 5:19-30. Jesus taught them and lived them and they are given for our own good. 1 John 5:3 Rev 22:14

So, no lutefisk? What about raw meats? I didn't see any prohibition.

Easy to understand.

A new creation is under the new commandments and that is what we are!

Jesus fulfilled the law for all of us.

We all are law breakers and we can't help ourselves, everyone needs to honest and confess.

The law advertises our absolute moral and spiritual failure.

Boast in Jesus and not in the law!

I was born Jewish....

The Sabbath was commanded for the Jews.
We are no longer living under the Law.

Why are you so confused, yet dogmatic, about this?

Does it offer you a sense of achieving something that you can take credit for?

To keep a sabbath day .. as under the Law one was to keep the sabbath day, makes no sense in the light of what the Bible teaches for the Christian who is now neither Jew nor Gentile.

No where in the New Testament does the phrase "the ten commandments" occur.

The phrase, "not under the law", occurs often in the New Testament.

Do not afflict widows and orphans and that commandment should have been near
the top of any list. Why is that omitted from the ten commandments?

Love the world and you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

You cannot love God and money at the same time, that's impossible.

Don't even think about committing gluttony.

Don't be a drunkard.

On and on it goes and and no mention of the ten commandments.

The law was written on paper for the nation of Israel, your correct.

Gentiles were never under the law.

That is why Gentiles are prohibited from circumcision.

The law cannot be obeyed in the flesh.

We are saved by grace and that is not from us.

We must be reading a different bible, because the Ten Commandments are all throughout.

God called them "My commandments" right in the Ten Exo 20:6

You might want to prayerfully consider reading Rom 7:7 James 2:10-12 Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 Mat 19:17-19 Mat 5:19-30 Rom 13:9, Rev 22:14-15 and so forth. There is no scripture that says we can break one of God's commandments- Jesus kept them and taught us to, so for me thats where I place my faith.

My bible say the God calls the Sabbath "My holy day" Isa 58:13 that Jesus said was made for man Mark 2:27 Isa 56:6

This whole "under the law" teaching is so misunderstood by Paul. Weird he would say we are not "under the law" but then say what matters is keeping the commandments of God, either Paul is constantly contradicting himself and Jesus or one doesn't understand his teachings just like we are told would happen 2 Peter 3:16 . Paul never countermanded Jesus who never said we are free to break God's law- He taught the opposite- not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments as one would be in fear of sin and Judgement Mat 5:19-30. We have free will, but considering the consequences Jesus taught of lawlessness I would want to study it a bit more carefully and humbly in prayer.

When Jesus came did God cast away the apple of His eye? Did God give up on Israel or not? No He gave them probation,
And set conditions to be a child of God.

Israel has not stopped being the nation of God, it was opened to all people and anyone that accepted the truth became an Israelite... we are Israel today and the laws that God gave them in Lev 11 apply today.. no verse states that these laws were removed.

The flesh of the pig has not changed.

God is the creator of man and knows what is best. In eden we were told to eat vegetables and fruit (no meat) they lived to 900. The world was destroyed by a flood. God allowed them to eat meat because there wasn't vegetables available.. but look at the animals that God provided for Noah and his family.

The clean animals.

Gen 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

It is not just about Israel.. it is for mankind's good. Long before Israel ever existed.

The DNA of the animals has not changed.

Pigs contain 7 times more uric acid, urine in the meat then the clean animals do.

Ponder this significant fact carefully. If certain animals were identified as unclean before the flood; if they were still counted as unclean when Peter rejected them in his vision; if they are still called unclean in Revelation 18:2, where it speaks of "unclean" birds; and if Isaiah declares that all who are eating swine and the abomination at the time of the second advent will be consumed (Isaiah 66:15-17), how can we feel that they are now fit to eat? When did they become clean?