Does anyone know of....

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HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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You want more people to lack understanding of God. Your problem is you believe some attributes of God outweigh others. They are all equal.
God is LOVE every other attribute is expressed within this foundational nature.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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Yes, you are right John Calvin did not teach saving faith was a gift, he understood Ephesians correctly I guess his hours studying Greek had some value.

So let's have a new what to summarize this set of doctrines/tenets "Cameron's Way" and we can have "HeIsHere's CDS" way. :)

Anyone moving on for now to the News Section... again there is no scripture that supports limited atonement, total depravity, regeneration before salvation etc., etc.,
You define the terms yourself and don't listen to what people share with you. When someone shares their perspective, you falsely characterize their perspective.

One example we have just been discussing. God has allowed Satan to blind unbelievers and exercise dominion over them. Paul says God must make the light of the understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ shine into an individual's heart before they will no longer be blinded. Hard to have a discussion with someone who denies what scripture clearly teaches.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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You define the terms yourself and don't listen to what people share with you. When someone shares their perspective, you falsely characterize their perspective.

One example we have just been discussing. God has allowed Satan to blind unbelievers and exercise dominion over them. Paul says God must make the light of the understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ shine into an individual's heart before they will no longer be blinded. Hard to have a discussion with someone who denies what scripture clearly teaches.

Every single person that has ever lived is blinded by Satan... he has all that power?
Can he be everywhere at once?
 

Cameron143

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Every single person that has ever lived is blinded by Satan... he has all that power?
Can he be everywhere at once?
Read Ephesians 2:1-3. Dead. Dominated. Doomed. That's how we enter the world.
 

Hakawaka

Active member
Jul 1, 2021
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CDS will put an end to this terrible soteriology which impugns the very character of God.

I pray more people acquire CDS lest others fall into the false soteriology of despair.
What is CDS?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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it is those who chose to not believe who have had their minds blinded.
Nobody is born believing. What choice is there in that? Men by nature are children of wrath,
hostile in their minds towards God. That is Scriptural. Best wrap your mind around that.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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God is LOVE every other attribute is expressed within this foundational nature.
Does this mean you have changed your position that God, in acting unilaterally, forcefully kidnaps people against their will?
 

BillyBob

Active member
Dec 20, 2023
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Texas
No im not making that claim, I said that in the message that we all do sin! That was my whole point. But the reason I sin is NOT because God determined for me to sin!
Do you not live and breath? If so, did not God determine this?
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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The way I see it, at the core of all of this is ONE tenet which is wrong and not established in scripture.... SAVING faith is a gift from God only given to some and not others.

The case is always made by a negative inference fallacy >> saving faith/belief must be gifted due to the fallen nature of man... yet Jesus and Paul never teach this, ever

Now they will say "dead in sin" "children of wrath" "blinded by Satan" etc, etc.,

They cannot prove saving faith/belief is a gift according to scripture, that is why they always build their case with indirect concepts to make the argument.

They confuse the gift of eternal life from God with the instrumentality of saving faith/belief, whereby that gift is received.

Eph 2:8-9 does not say faith is the gift from God.
In the Greek, the word for faith, pistis, is a feminine noun.
The word for “this” is touto, and it’s a neuter demonstrative pronoun.
“This” can not be referring to faith; you can’t have a neuter pronoun referring to a feminine noun.
“This” refers to the entire phrase “for by grace you have been saved through faith.” The gift that “this” refers to is salvation, not faith in this verse.

God’s grace offers the gift of salvation; it’s up to us to choose if we want to apply it to us through faith.
That is why it is “gospel”—good news. We cannot earn it, so God, in His grace, gives is to us freely. We just have to accept it by faith.

There really is no debate.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,217
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The way I see it, at the core of all of this is ONE tenet which is wrong and not established in scripture.... SAVING faith is a gift from God only given to some and not others.

The case is always made by a negative inference fallacy >> saving faith/belief must be gifted due to the fallen nature of man... yet Jesus and Paul never teach this, ever

Now they will say "dead in sin" "children of wrath" "blinded by Satan" etc, etc.,

They cannot prove saving faith/belief is a gift according to scripture, that is why they always build their case with indirect concepts to make the argument.

They confuse the gift of eternal life from God with the instrumentality of saving faith/belief, whereby that gift is received.

Eph 2:8-9 does not say faith is the gift from God.
In the Greek, the word for faith, pistis, is a feminine noun.
The word for “this” is touto, and it’s a neuter demonstrative pronoun.
“This” can not be referring to faith; you can’t have a neuter pronoun referring to a feminine noun.
“This” refers to the entire phrase “for by grace you have been saved through faith.” The gift that “this” refers to is salvation, not faith in this verse.

God’s grace offers the gift of salvation; it’s up to us to choose if we want to apply it to us through faith.
That is why it is “gospel”—good news. We cannot earn it, so God, in His grace, gives is to us freely. We just have to accept it by faith.

There really is no debate.
One doesn't need faith to be a gift to see that God must act first to enable salvation. The hindrance to faith is understanding. When God gives understanding and shines the light into the heart, a person believes.
 

BillyBob

Active member
Dec 20, 2023
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Texas
One doesn't need faith to be a gift to see that God must act first to enable salvation. The hindrance to faith is understanding. When God gives understanding and shines the light into the heart, a person believes.
I agree with this. And the very fact that this light does not shine in the heart of all people, simply means that He limits this to those that He chose to receive it!
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
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You are quick on assumption and slow on information. Just because someone doesn't understand the outworking of salvation doesn't mean they are not saved. There is no requirement to understand salvation, but simply believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

If you didn't have CDS, you could learn a thing or two.
I have no idea what you are speaking about.
I believe you have me confused with someone else.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,170
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They cannot prove saving faith/belief is a gift according to scripture,
You keep denying what Scripture explicitly states.


1 Corinthians 4:7b; John 3:27; Romans 9:15-16 What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did also receive it, why do you boast as not having received it? John replied, "A man can receive only that which is given him from heaven." "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then, it does not depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
:)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,170
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They cannot prove saving faith/belief is a gift according to scripture,
Romans 12:3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself
more highly than you ought, but think of yourself with sober judgment, according to
the measure of faith God has given you.

You keep denying what Scripture explicitly states. Why???


Romans 12:3b
:)
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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I have no idea what you are speaking about.
I believe you have me confused with someone else.
Nope. You assume alot about what others believe and falsely assume what others must mean. Even when you are told otherwise, it doesn't change your perspective.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,217
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Romans 12:3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself
more highly than you ought, but think of yourself with sober judgment, according to
the measure of faith God has given you.

You keep denying what Scripture explicitly states. Why???


Romans 12:3b
:)
This is probably referring to the gift of faith, but we also know that all things we have came from God. This is what isn't being acknowledged.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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One doesn't need faith to be a gift to see that God must act first to enable salvation. The hindrance to faith is understanding. When God gives understanding and shines the light into the heart, a person believes.

There is no requirement to understand salvation, but simply believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
Okay, yes I get it now. :rolleyes::eek::D

This has been awesome, verses out of their surrounding context, not exegeted which are not even about soteriology.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,170
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This is probably the gift of faith, but we also know that all things we have came from God. This is what isn't being acknowledged.
Yes, and I keep posting about that, the very Scriptures, but they are ignored and not acknowledged at all ... and they just keep lying about what Scripture does and does not say.