Does anyone know of....

yeah what I’m saying is maybe they see that God our life and death before Adam and Informed him so he could be safe

then tbey saw God our life and death in front of isreel and say choose life and live

a they saw Jesus send the gospel to all creatures of the world sayong “ whoever hears and believes will be saved , whoever does not believe will be damned “

maybe they just realize “ Gods giving me a choice I should choose life like he’s saying “

maybe this doesn’t mean “ God can’t do what he wants he isn’t soveriegn g and has no right ect ect “

maybe they ere saying sinply “ God tells us his Will and it’s certain because he is soveriegn and it’s important to ac to ally hear what he says will save sinners and give them eternal life and believe that version of truth knowing zgod cannot fail but also that he foretold them the plan that will not change and said believe and live

maybe thier point isn’t “ Gods not soveriegn “ maybe the post is “ God told us the truth so we can live and not die with his soveriegn Will “

a maybe they are just saying “ God doesn’t randomly act hes foretold man what he’s going to do so they can be safe if they listen to what he said

alike a father does his children and not so much like a puppeteer

sister I don’t know the people I don’t know what theyve said , I know and agree there are alot of people who don’t agree with the gospel if that’s what you mean that’s for certain

Lol I was only responding to your comment to me sister 😂

and the maybes were because yeah I don’t even know really who exactly your talking about so how could I ?

I think you have taken some of the things other people say and mix them in to your responses to me as if I have said or believe the things people falsely accuse me of. Like when I say man does not have a will that is free, that is not me saying we are puppets, or we don't have a choice, or denying that God asks us to choose wisely. So few understand that making choices does not equate to having a will that is free, and they refuse to admit that the Bible teaches no such thing when the natural man is described as slaves to sin. I have many times said the same thing you have about Calvinism: God does not force us to do evil and then punish us for doing so. He does not make it impossible for some to respond and then punish them for their failure to do so. To me that is a major flaw in the whole Calvinist view and I do not hold to it and have said I am not a Calvinist a number of times but people still speak to me as if I am which you seem to be doing also.

Look at what happened on page one even: as soon as I say man's will is not free I am accused of believing
nobody has a choice! Then that very same person claims I am a Calvinist then they deny they do such things.

“think you have taken some of the things other people say and mix them in to your responses to me as if I have said or believe the things people falsely accuse me of.”

Im certainly not accusing you of anything honestly I just saw a notification from you and replied .

Wasn’t really arguing or anything I had replied to this which was what you had said to me

“Consider that those who are wailing and gnashing teeth do not consider it good news to discover they were wrong all along.

Do you think it much different for a person who is opposed to God to find out they were wrong?

Some may submit readily, or in relief, after God has done His work in them. Others? Not so much.

Many tell of resisting tooth and nail. We know what that means. Very reluctant converts!

BUT... afterwards? Extremely grateful that God rescued them.

Although some call it being kidnapped against their will and say God is a tyrant for acting unilaterally.

I mean... how dare He take possession of that which is His”

I was just responding to this as best I could. But if I’ve offended or hurt your feelings or anything I do apologize I was just discussing

“So few understand that making choices does not equate to having a will that is free, “

yes I think if you have two options and the freedom to choose those o formed decisions this leaves you with a choice.

“ free Will “ is mans inherant gift from God being made in his image what haooened was Satan corrupted mankind’s Will when he deceived them in Eden causing them to take the knowledge of good and evil , over Hods word of life

man is a unique part of creation with a position designed by God it requires tbier agency in the design of crestion

“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion….. upon the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

man is an agent of God a steward of the earth created by and for him. Our Will is free what happens is we’ve been placed in a world with good and evil in it and we are like a cup or glass . Our Will is influenced by good and evil but we were free not being forced into either the issue we have is not that we’re either good or evil but that we’re both good and evil both spirit and flesh

This is why we were forbidden the knowledge of good and evil God understood it would corrupt us

“I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

our Will needs to be informed of the truth it’s corrupt beforehand causing us to serve sins will rather than Gods Will which is man’s rightful free Will

I think the term “ will “ is misunderstood

man is like a glass we can be filled with good or evil Truth or lies and that’s what’s going to lead us and form in our Will whatever we give ourselves to

“Whether it is the word will that is misunderstood or the word free, together the concept of free will is not taught in the Bible at all, as we are slaves to either sin or righteousness”

The freedom is the choice between serving good or serving evil

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

whether of sin unto death,

or of obedience unto righteousness?
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin,

ye became the servants of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they converted from servants of sin to servants of righteousness because they heers and believed the gospel the doctrine they learned from Jesus that gave them freedom from sins dominion

the choice is go an o going to yield myself to? God through the spirit unto life ? Or Satan through the flesh unto death

“I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity;

even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the term “ slave “ might be misunderstood as if we have no choice who to serve , we do if we can accept the truth that sets men free

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”( he just told them how to be set free he’s not now talking about a different magical way )
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32, 34, 36‬ ‭KJV‬‬


man was not crested without free Will sister Satan corrupted man’s free Will and enslaved them

“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:16-17‬ ‭

“you are free but this one is deadly don’t eat of it you’ll die “

at this point man os t a slave he isn’t being forced he was warned of God just told the truth about death that’s meant to keep him safe . His Will is not eslaved it’s informed sister now it becomes corrupt

“And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:4-6, 8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and later after sin runs its course mans eill has become completely corrupt and enslaved by thier own lusts through good and evil and the forbidden knowledge

“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God told a free man and woman not to eat the fruit that would corrupt and cause this because he foreknew what would happen . Eves free Will was corrupted by satans words after God told them the truth adams was corrupted by the same words from her the fruit of good and evil is the corruption itself that causes us to be “enslaved “to sin

“I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. ( this isn’t supposed to be it’s a result of the transgression ) For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

sister scripture like this here should tell you what I’m saying

It’s a choice of who to serve

“It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

….You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh;

( we are free and have a choice )

rather, serve one another humbly in love.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:1, 13‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Possibly another apostles word it’s a choice we have to make ,that’s what our freedom allows we aren’t slaves and don’t have that excuse anymore

“Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God’s servants.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭2:16‬ ‭NIV‬‬

And we’re told why we need to make the choice

“Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die;

( the other choice we can make if we have received the spirit )

but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-13‬ ‭NIV‬‬

hes given us the tools and eauippped us we’re Alfred no longer bound by the law set free by the truth instead able to resist satans temptations and choose Christs ways instead

Sister you never need apologize I’m fine with a challenge in a discussion to what I’ve said you have never gotten personal or insulted me in any way , and owe absolutely no apology to me . You’re one of my favorite people. A blessing indeed ! I’m always looking for others to state thier case whether they agree of disagree . And certainly what you have to say is worthy of consideration to me. Sometimes I forget to qualify that part with people lol

Magneta, given that scripture clearly teaches that man's way is not in himself but rather it is God who directs mankind's steps (Prov 16:1, 9; 19:21; 21:1, 30; Jer 10:23, etc.), and given the fact God both gives and removes his undeserved grace freely from men as it pleases him and suits his purpose, which would include giving sinners over to a reprobate mind to commit all manner of sin (|Romans 1), then how would God be justified in condemning those to whom he have given over to their own sinful devices? God's grace clearly works two ways: It restrains sin in people when it is given to them (Ambimelech being a great example, cf. Gen 20:3-6) or it can increase sin in people when taken from them (the life of king Saul comes immediately to mind). But let's examine two other people who greatly displeased God and how He dealt with them.


1 Sam 2:22-25
22 Now Eli, who was very old, heard about everything his sons were doing to all Israel and how they slept with the women who served at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. 23 So he said to them, "Why do you do such things? I hear from all the people about these wicked deeds of yours. 24 No, my sons; it is not a good report that I hear spreading among the LORD's people. 25 If a man sins against another man, God may mediate for him; but if a man sins against the LORD, who will intercede for him?" His sons, however, did not listen to their father's rebuke, for it was the LORD's will to put them to death.
NIV


It seems to me that this passage is saying that God closed the door on Eli's two sons, so that there was no chance any longer for them to repent, which means they continued to sin until God took them both the same day (2:34), whenever that was. Was God unjust for not making it possible for them to repent in which case they would have listened to their father's rebuke; or was God just in giving them over to their own evil pursuits?

What a strange post.

You write 605 words, ask me at least 8 questions and make multiple statements yet you "see no point at all debating it with me"?

Okay...I guess.

But this discussion is simple. You have one side defending the notion that mankind cannot on their own accord accept the message of the Gospel of Christ and the other defending the opposite.

On your question of "So please SHOW ME where these comments are since you seem to have seen them so "clearly stated".

Post# 14
Post# 27
Post# 33
and others.

Since you "see no point at all debating it with me" I will assume you will not reply.

Really? This "clearly teaches" that mankind is put on this world without the ability to go his own way?

Eli's sons had no say so in their own way upon the world?

Eli's sons reaped what they sowed. They chose to not follow the way of their father.

Well, how do you interpret Jer 10:23?

Jer 10:23
23 I know, O LORD, that a man's life is not his own;
it is not for man to direct his steps.
NIV

Since man isn't directing his own steps, then who is directing them?

But I totally agree that Eli's two sons reaped what they sowed. However, what was the ultimate reason behind them not listening to their father's rebuke? 1Sam 2:25 reads in part...His sons, however, did not listen to their father's rebuke, FOR it was the LORD's will to put them to death. That little three letter word that begins the last clause "for" looms quite large in this passage. It states the ultimate reason why the two sons didn't listen to their father. And the ultimate cause behind their choice did not lie in their own will.

I agree with this passage and what is being taught.
The problem seems to be that there are those who, when they read it, are quick to say that it does not mean what it says because that would indicate that we have an unfair God. However, the truth is that God does as He wishes! He does not owe man the least little thing! When He does bless us with His undeserved favor, our reaction should be to fall on our face with thankfulness, that He should take interest in such a worm as we are!

It does not matter "how I interpret" the verse.

The Word of God exist as a lamp for mankind to guide his path. If you are interpreting the verse to mean that we do not direct our own steps then the Bible has no purpose. In other words, your verse is general in nature and can not be viewed in such a rigid and all-encompassing manner.

Just as Esther was told to decide her role in saving the Jews, it was her choice. If she would not save the Jews God would pick someone else to do His will. (Esther 4:12-15)

On the issue of Eli's sons, God would not allow their repentance, they were past that point. But it was their choice to follow that path.
Eli's sons could have been great leaders for God but they chose evil. God puts limits on our time to repent, after that point we may simply be pawns in His plans.

So in a board sense "mankind" is following the path laid out by God but "individuals" are free to follow that path or not.

5 Vessels come to the same church meeting and hear the same Gospel Message but only 2 leave the service full of the Holy Spirit and a new follower of Christ.

I made a list of the 5 Vessels who came to this church meeting.


1. the Vessel coming with an expectant attitude

2. the Vessel coming because they are made to

3. the Vessel coming because they agreed to an invitation

4. the Vessel coming to make fun of the Body of local Believers

5. the Vessel coming out of curiosity


Which 2 would you think were most likely to become Believers in Christ?

They match what we read in the Bible.

The God of the Bible is not as you describe. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a loving, patient and good God. You seem to see Him as a god like Zeus, giving mankind no recourse in his own purpose or destiny. I reject your reasoning.

God is good not just to a chosen few but to all who love Him.