Will There Be A Rapture?

When He returns (to the earth), yes.

(Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 [and parallel], "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." ...THEN "the meal [G347]" [on the earth / the EARTHLY MK age]--He will RETURN as an ALREADY-WED "Bridegroom" in these contexts);

But Jesus ASCENDED TWO TIMES.

Acts 1 (which they "BEHELD") was the latter of these TWO times.

And He shall "SO" come "IN LIKE MANNER" as they have "SEEN" Him traveling up to heaven. TRUE!! Pre-tribbers do NOT disagree!
(This Acts 1 wording corresponds with 2Th2:8b "the MANIFESTATION of the presence / parousia of Him/Jesus," when He will squash the "man of sin"/"AC"; and with Rev1:7's "and EVERY EYE shall SEE Him" [i.e. at Rev19]; and corresponding with 1Tim6:15 "which in his times he SHALL SHEW [/OPENLY MANIFEST]...").


But some "40 days" EARLIER He ascended the FIRST time (ON His Resurrection Day / ON "FIRSTFRUIT" [Lev23:10-12 / 1Cor15:20])... and further study shows that this "pattern" holds.

We will see 😀

Well, if you're trying to use that reasoning to support man's pre-trib rapture theory, that really does not work.

Lord Jesus was emphatic about the timing and order of His future return to gather His Church being AFTER... the tribulation, even as Apostle Paul showed in 1 Thessalonians 4 with the asleep saints being resurrected on that day of Christ's future return.

I'm well aware that man's pre-trib rapture theory believes Christ's 2nd coming is actually a 3rd coming, with all His Church, when it is not a 3rd coming. So believing that Jesus ascended to Heaven more than once is likewise an adding to the Scripture.

There are only... two comings written of in God's Word for Lord Jesus Christ. His 1st coming was to be meek as a lamb to be crucified for the remission of sins of those who believe. And His 2nd coming will be His future return with His army from Heaven on the last day... of this world, which also is when Paul showed the rapture of the Church will occur.

Yes, many will... see, with some in shame, when Jesus appears after the tribulation.

there is a tremendous amount fro everyone to learn
He was risen, Mary saw him and tried to touch him. Jesus stopped her, said to her he had not yet ascended John 20
He then ascended, telling her to go to the others to tell them he has risen. He showed up there in the upper room to them. Jesus as risen , hung out with the disciples for forty days, before going. back to Heaven. As they saw him leave on that cloud
Amazing, therefore so yes it was he went back to Heaven to first place this does work of himself willingly on the Mercy seat, the true Church in Heaven not here on earth.
However you or others sees this is how others see it, Love you all is the call from God that is proven to me in risen Son
Hoping the best for us all

None of that involves man's pre-trib rapture theory though about a 3rd coming.

However it turns out is how it will turn out.
....

I'm sorry brother/sister, I cannot go with that kind of attitude, as I'd be doing Christ a disservice if I agreed with it.

When Christ gave us plain and simple Bible Scripture to know in what order of events to expect His future return, even how... that is to happen, He meant it, as written.

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Okay, thanks I do believe in the coming back of Jesus for us. seeing in Revelations, his return for the new earth to begin and hand back the keys to Father then. Therefore daily presently I see to take care of today in trust to Father and Son as still won for me and everyone else also, whether another one believes this or not . I see to daily stand in trust and not be concerned too much about future stuff, why?
There is enough evil in today, God is out taking care of my tomorrow.
And everyone else's too. It is whenever "I" am trying to figure it out, I am somehow in doubt, beating me up and possibly others thinking, I got it and others do not. God forbid
At least for me, thanks

Well, if you're trying to use that reasoning to support man's pre-trib rapture theory, that really does not work.

Lord Jesus was emphatic about the timing and order of His future return to gather His Church being AFTER... the tribulation, even as Apostle Paul showed in 1 Thessalonians 4 with the asleep saints being resurrected on that day of Christ's future return.

I'm well aware that man's pre-trib rapture theory believes Christ's 2nd coming is actually a 3rd coming, with all His Church, when it is not a 3rd coming.

So believing that Jesus ascended to Heaven more than once is likewise an adding to the Scripture.

There are only... two comings written of in God's Word for Lord Jesus Christ.

His 1st coming was to be meek as a lamb to be crucified for the remission of sins of those who believe. And His 2nd coming will be His future return with His army from Heaven on the last day... of this world, which also is when Paul showed the rapture of the Church will occur.

When Christ gave us plain and simple Bible Scripture to know in what order of events to expect His future return, even how... that is to happen, He meant it, as written.

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV
But the above example is different than the Matt.24 version. Here Jesus is pointing to the saints still alive... on earth being gathered, "...from the uttermost part of the earth...".

And His 2nd coming will be His future return with His army from Heaven [...]

Hi @DavyP

I believe that there will be days after the gathering of the saints. In the Revelation, we find that Jesus first gathers his and then God's angel comes and delivers those left behind into the winepress of God's wrath. Those days are then described for us as the bowl judgments that are poured out upon the earth. They will be dreadful days for those who are left to deal with His wrath.

I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested. Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.” The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath. They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.

That's a lot of blood that will be flowing right here upon the earth, after Jesus removes those who he knows.

Nor does it "work" to disregard 1Th3:13 (in the CONTEXT of 1Th4) simply because it doesn't happen to jive with "your [post-trib Rapture] take on things".



I'm going to say this in love and try to explain in such a way that you can grasp what I'm meaning...

... remember as a kid, doing one of those "Connect the Dots" pages, that once completed (connecting dots 1 through 100) it would form a complete picture?

What I see you doing is "connecting" dots 1, 10, and 100 (forming a sort of zig-zag set of jagged lines) because you think they "look similar" (1, 10, 100--they DO kinda "look similar"). But you are missing so many dots (in the proper sequence all the numbers of "1 to 100") that you are coming up short of seeing "the whole [correct] picture".



If you want to discuss the ideas of "THIRD" in relation to the word "COME" (re: Jesus), then see John 21:13-14 WHICH USES THOSE TWO WORDS (re: Him)... all [times] of which took place "after He was risen from the dead".





In Scripture, there is no text referencing "[His] SECOND coming/advent" (it is a LABEL used by us/ppl to help communicate what it is we are referring to, when discussing biblical Subjects... i.e. a man made designation--which CAN at times cause confusion).


BTW, Heb10:28's "a second time apart from sin shall appear" isn't saying "[His] Second ADVENT/COMING"(as though, in contrast to "His FIRST advent/coming");
The FIRST TIME "apart from sin" that He appeared [passive] was AFTER His resurrection.



So you do not believe that 1Cor15:20 (re: His resurrection) saying "FIRSTFRUIT" (in that verse), was a literal fulfillment of Leviticus 23:10-12 ON "FIRSTFRUIT" [ON THAT EXACT DATE] (please read that context)?

He fulfilled Ex12:3,5,6 (the selection of the lamb) ON THE VERY DAY prescribed (Nisan 10--what we call Palm Sunday) and was examined for those prescribed days (see Ex12:6);

He fulfilled Passover;

Why are you thinking He did not fulfill Lev23:10-12 (FIRSTFRUIT), when 1Cor15:20 SAYS this, and when Jesus Himself TOLD Mary Magdalene "I ASCEND [active]"... yet later that very evening (way late in the evening) He ENCOURAGED THEM to touch Him (whereas the REASON He had told MM NOT to touch Him was BECAUSE ["FOR"] He had "NOT YET ASCENDED"... AND He told her to "GO... and SAY UNTO" them this fact... which she did. Why tell MM to go say to them what He could say to them Himself later that very day at the evening meal IF He was referring to the "40-days LATER" event of Him traveling up to Heaven in Acts 1?)

Yeah, He SAID to her "I ASCEND"... and HE DID! (ON [and FULFILLING] THE VERY DATE OF "FIRSTFRUIT" - Lev23:10-12 / 1Cor15:20!)



And yet, IN SCRIPTURE we see:

--"[...thou, Bethlehem Ephratah... out of thee] shall he COME forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel..." - Micah 5:2; and

--"...behold, thy King COMETH unto thee: ...riding upon an ass..." - Zechariah 9:9 [see Lk19:41-44];


So here we see two DISTINCT "comings" (of Him) that were THIRTY-SOME YEARS apart (iow, they were not IDENTICAL "comings" but distinct--though all falling under the umbrella of what *we* LABEL His First Advent)







"ON the last day... of this world" is NOT a BIBLICAL phrase.

One will not find that idea being conveyed in the passages using the phrase "the last day" you are drawing from.






What you are missing here is:

--this passage CONNECTS BACK with Isaiah 27:9,12-13 (about a SPECIFIC THING)...

--so Isaiah 27:9 (of that context) CONNECTS with both Romans 11:27 (and context); as well as Daniel 9:24 [parts] and its context pertaining to "____ ARE DETERMINED UPON *thy* [Daniel's] people, AND UPON *thy* [Daniel's] holy city"--the PEOPLE WHO HAVE been "judicially SCATTERED"... TO THE "FOUR WINDS" (and WHO will be gathered FROM THENCE in this Matt24:29-31 passage);
Notice the "GREAT" trumpet sound which also CONNECTS these TWO passages;
Notice that THEY will be "gathered" (by ANGELS that HE "SHALL SEND" to do so) "ONE BY ONE" (not AS ONE, as *WE* [/the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY] will be!)

"The Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" is NOT who've been judicially scattered (see Eph1:20-23 WHEN [as to ITS existence]).



You are conflating DISTINCT things simply because they LOOK SIMILAR (numbers 1, 10, and 100), but consequently are missing the big picture (the correct SEQUENCE of "connecting ALL the dots," not merely the few you are "connecting" in a zig-zag [insufficient] kind of manner).


Do not "leave out" 1Th3:13... which CONNECTS with both "the BEMA of Christ" for REWARD/AWARD (which is designated solely for "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"), like when Paul said he will receive a "CROWN / stephanos" *IN THAT DAY* (and not to him only), which is not referring to the day he DIES... and CONNECTS ALSO with what we SEE being SHOWN in Rev4:4c (crowns / stephanous")!

And this is just for starters! lol (we're, like, on "dot number 4" at this point! )

Okay, thanks I do believe in the coming back of Jesus for us. seeing in Revelations, his return for the new earth to begin and hand back the keys to Father then.
....

Well, there will be a "thousand years" reign by Lord Jesus and His elect first once Jesus returns in our near future (Revelation 20). God's Word in Zechariah 14 even shows that after Christ's future return, the leftovers who will have come up against Jerusalem (i.e., battle of Armageddon), will be made to come up to Jerusalem and worship Christ in that future time, and keep the feast of tabernacles. This is what Apostle Paul was speaking of in the 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 Scripture that Jesus must reign until He puts all His enemies under His feet.

The idea of Amillennialism, which is a man-made doctrine that crept into the Church in the 2nd century A.D., instead tries to omit that future "thousand years" reign by Christ and His elect. They teach instead that when Jesus returns, the 'new heavens and a new earth' time begins, with all the wicked destroyed. That is not what God's Word teaches.

Nor does it "work" to disregard 1Th3:13 (in the CONTEXT of 1Th4) simply because it doesn't happen to jive with "your [post-trib Rapture] take on things".

I'm going to say this in love and try to explain in such a way that you can grasp what I'm meaning...
....

There is much to discern as truth over the many errors in this world we are in and not a part of anymore. Thanks to Father and Son as Won for us to stand in thanksgiving and praise with all sin taken away as far as the east is from the west.
However it all turns out, man to this day does not really know truth, not completely. Therefore I see what Paul talks of, in us (me) being carnal and need meat. The meat is not for me to discern and see and tell others I got it and you don't. It is to eat solid food in the risen Son for me at least and all others as well. If they will be willing for God to lead them daily, as I am learning this truth daily in this love and mercy given me, no matter how I might think I get it or know it. Truth is God knows and I am safe win God's love and mercy of Son given me as all others are also.
I can rest in God Quill over Ny-quill, if you get that. Yes I am so old, I must have been a servant at the last supper

Yes, as those in Christ do not all have the same calling in His service. Some of us He called as teachers, which He has given proof of for me, though I still recognize that I don't know everything, and that there are other brethren way ahead of me in their knowledge of God's Word. For some called in that office, He gives them a Holy Spirit 'urge' to study all of His Word and into the "strong meat".

The problem that I see today in the majority of Churches is lack of line upon line, chapter by chapter Bible teaching. Some Churches that can afford a Bible scholar are blessed in that, but per my experience that's very few Churches today. But most Churches preach the "milk" of God's Word, and some don't even fulfill that, and instead just preach that most all Bible prophecy has already been fulfilled, except for Lord Jesus Christ's future return.

Let's look at the example of a Church that does not teach Bible prophecy, and preaches the idea that most all The Bible is already fulfilled, except for Christ's future return. That idea in the seminaries is called Preterism, based on the word 'preter', which means 'what is past'. That's the kind of Christian Church organization I was raised in, but I do not follow that doctrine, which is a man-made doctrine and not Biblical. What it does for that particular Church organization is it gives them control above & beyond God's written Word, so they believe they can teach whatever they want instead.

One of the most important Bible doctrines for our times near the end of this world, are Christ's SIGNS of the end He commanded us to be watching which lead up to His future return, per His Olivet discourse, which are the same SIGNS He gave us through Apostle John in the Book of Revelation. Very few Churches today are covering those SIGNS. And many who try to fail simply because they haven't yet studied enough of God's Word of both Old and New Testament Books. Did you know that starting in Isaiah 24 there are many Revelation parallels? Some Bible scholars call certain Chapters of the Book of Isaiah as "The Apocalypse of Isaiah."

So yes, there is definitely much to learn with study of God's Word, and no one completely will know it all during this world. Yet that's no excuse to not get busy in line upon line, chapter by chapter Bible study.

I highly recommend at minimum the KJV study Bible called The Companion Bible put together by 19th century Christian Bible scholar E.W. Bullinger. It's a KJV Bible with scholar notes in a side margin. The majority of those side margin notes are not opinion, but scholarly facts, historical events, etc. The 192 Appendixes of Bible information contained in the back is alone worth having a copy.

Along with that, a good Strong's Exhaustive Concordance (pre 1990's edition preferred); The Treasury of Scripture Knowledge, and The Englishman's Concordance, as simple study tools. These other Bible study tools, along with many other Bible versions, can be found in the FREE Bible software by BibleSoft called OneTouch, a free download from their website. Then you can buy add-on Bible sources from their website. BibleSoft is used by many Christian pastors.

You study deeply, yet it seems you are studying man's interpretations of the word of God.