Loss of salvation???

this isn't about how they learned or how we learn.

but if they had no concept if right or wrong, and we do, then they didn't apprehend in the same way we do, and none of your philosophies about the acquisition of knowledge are relevant to them.

Simple example

“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When this word was eves belief she hadn’t eaten the fruit

“And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they had the freedom to eat from the tree of life already at this point , and they’ve been told the truth about the deadly fruit. They are safe because thier mind about the fruit is correct it’s based on what God told them about the fruit it’s going to keep them away from the fruit but then

her belief is attacked with a false doctrine about the fruit that causes death

“And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:4-5‬ ‭

If I believe this is true about the fruit , then I’m going to eat it it’s a good thing . But if I remember what God said and believe him , I’m not going to eat the fruit it’s death which will I believe is the question Gods word ? Or the other words out there telling me what God said isn’t true ?

a look what happens when she hears and believes the wrong word something happens to her and her his and who also did the same thing because of the same word she shared with him

“And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they lost the battle the moment they disbelieved Gods warning about the fruit and accepted the lie it altered thier belief about the fruit and that’s why they are the fruit . They didn’t believe Gods warning but satans temptation instead

Back then it was a wreath and today it's a gold medal. Those who did not receive the prize were not disqualified from the Olympics but were disqualified for the prize. No loss of salvation here.

That's correct. However, if they had no concept of right or wrong, then God could not have told Adam what He did in Genesis 2:17. How could God give a warning to someone who could not distinguish between obeying a command and disobeying a command?

They both had consciences at the time they were created, otherwise how could they have hidden from God not having a guilty conscience? All humans have a conscience (unlike animals), and conscience tells all humans what is right and what it wrong.

We have to remember that this is figurative language. Paul is not talking about the “Olympics”. He’s just talking about a “race.” As a figure of speech representing our “Christian life””. For us, as Christian’s, it’s for a “crown”. We know, because of Revelation 3:10 says “IF” we are FAITHFUL. He will give us the crown of life. We don’t need to read too much into this. It’s simple really. James 1:12 says when we have “BEEN APPROVED”, we will receive the crown of life. The scriptures are very plain that receiving that “crown” is CONDITIONAL on our being FAITHFUL to God until we die (Rev. 3:10) and being approved by God.

Paul is saying it is possible, if we dont discipline ourselves, we can be “disqualified” and Lose that crown. Paul says we are to RUN IN SUCH A WAY so that we can obtain it. (Verse 24) This harmonizes with 2 Tim. 2:5 which says “Anyone who competes in athletics is NOT crowned unless he competes according to the “RULES.” So it MATTERS how we live our life; it MATTERS to God whether or not we keep His commandments; TWO of His rules for this race is that we be faithful to Him all of our life; the other one us that we must abide by His rules. That means that a person will not get a crown if he sins against God and is in- repentant. That would not be playing by His rules. Then, after we have finished this “race”, we must be approved by God. It makes no sense, nor is it LOGICAL for God to make these “conditions” if it is impossible for us to lose our crown! Paul says that even he can lose his crown. Even though he has preached to others— he can be disqualified! Even Paul MUST run the race according to the “rules”.

EVERYTHING in scripture teaches that we can lose our salvation;

Jesus teaches it in His parables, like the parable of the sower.

And that is the whole point of the parable of the prodigal son. It’s the picture of a person who leaves his “father” who is really FATHER GOD. The boy WASTED his inheritance (heaven), he threw it away! But when he repented, his father (God) took him back with open arms.

There are so many scriptures, so much evidence that God has given us. I hope you will consider this with an honest heart.

I'm going to answer this in the simplest way I can think of. Yes, it IS possible to lose salvation.


KJV Galatians 5:19-22
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


Revelations also shines a similar light on the subject.

KJV Revelations 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


So correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me like losing salvation IS possible, if you fall under any of these categories. And yes, repenting and asking for forgiveness is ALWAYS a good idea.

Yes, it’s all about not trusting and believing God; instead she believed Satan’s lies. There is an Old Testament story that illustrates this, too. I King 13. Each time, Satan said the very opposite of what God said. God said “You will die.” Satan said, “You will NOT die.” If God says “yes”, Satan will say, “no”. That is STILL going on today. And people are still taking Satan’s words over God’s. In the garden Satan worked through a serpent; in 1 Kings 13, he worked through a prophet; he worked through Peter in Matthew 16:23. Today, Satan is still working through men—preachers, and lay men. The Bible warns many times about false teachers, false doctrines , and commandments of men. 1John 4:1 says, Do not believe every spirit but TEST” the spirits whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.” What are these false prophets teaching? They are being led by Satan and preaching HIS message; you can be sure it is a false teacher if what they teach contradicts what God says in the Bible. They do not wear horns and a forked tail; many times they may wear ecclesiastical robes. Jesus called them “sheep” in wolves clothing. Matthew 7:15-16. They may look BEAUTIFUL! Jesus said Satan could turn himself into an ANGEL of light! 2 Cor. 11:13-14. Jesus says the way we can know them is by their “fruits”. That is by what they teach. But to do that, we HAVE TO KNOw WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS. Otherwise, we will think they are telling the truth. Did Satan lie to Eve in the garden? Yes, He did. And Satan’s helpers today will lie to us the same way. So God says in 1 Thess. 5:21 to PROVE (test) ALL THINGS. The only way we can “test” or prove anything is by the Bible.

On a site such as this, you can read comments from many different people, expressing, many different beliefs, and many, many OPINIONS. Please do not take a man’s word for anything. Insist on “proof” from God word for what you believe. Otherwise, how are we different from Eve?

Their eyes were opened once they ate. (See Genesis 3:5 + 7.)
Do you not read your Bible? What you claim is not in Scripture.

Did you mean Revelation 2:10? If Revelation 2:10 teaches that we must be "faithful enough" (in addition) to placing our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation (Ephesians 2:8,9) then just "how faithful" would you have to be? Where do you draw the line in the sand and say that you were "faithful enough" so now the Lord will be able to save you? That is vague and could include any number of good works, which results in "works righteousness." The same applies to James 1:12. Only genuine believers are faithful.

I see Revelation 2:10 as an encouraging statement from the Lord to Christians at the church of Smyrna who were being persecuted, even to the point of death. I don't see Jesus telling these Christians that if they are not "faithful enough" (in addition) to having faith in Him for salvation that they will not receive eternal life. That is "salvation by works!" I do see Jesus telling them that they will receive the crown of life after death, be faithful, hang in there! In the very next verse, Jesus said - "He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death." 1 John 5:4, we read - "For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. ONLY (genuine) BELIEVERS are saved, overcome, and are faithful unto death (Ephesians 2:8; 1 Peter 1:9). Unbelievers are not saved, do not overcome and are unfaithful unto death.

When I was a teenager, I temporarily attended the church of Christ with my friend and his aunt. Years later, after I received Christ through faith and was now a born-again Christian, I ran into my friend's aunt and while discussing church with her, she asked me if I had "remained faithful." Her idea of remaining faithful revolved around whether or not I still attended the church of Christ and held to all of their beliefs. When I told her that I no longer attend that church, but attend a different church now, a Baptist church, she acted very uncomfortable and implied that I have not been faithful and will not be saved.

The Bible mentions 5 different crowns that believers may receive. Do they all simply represent eternal life according to you? In Revelation 19:12, Jesus is described as having eyes that were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. What do those many crowns represent according to you?

In context, Paul asks the question. What is the prize before Paul? Is it that reward of which he spoke in verse 1 Corinthians 9:18, his glorying of preaching a free gospel? There are those who take Paul to be referring to the possibility of his rejection in his personal salvation at the end of the race. The problem that I see with that interpretation is there is a difference between a prize and a gift.

A prize is something that you work for and earn where a gift is something that you freely accept without merit. Prize (brabeion) - the prize awarded to a victor, the reward (recognition) that follows triumph. Yet salvation is a free gift that we freely accept. (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8). 1 Corinthians 3:14-15 mentions - If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, (of reward) though he himself will be saved. Paul said disqualified for the prize. Not disqualified for the free gift of eternal life.

First of all, yes, thank you, I DID MEAN Revelation 2:10. But you have “added” a word into that verse that is not there. The word “enough.” God did NOT say “if you are faithful ENOUGH.” That changes the meaning. You know, that is a trick of Satan. He only added one word to what God said, too. He said “you shall “NOT” die. Revelation 22:18-19 warns us not to ADD to His word. (Nor subtract from it.). Yes, there are more things we must do in addition to our faith. I know this because God said we are NOT saved by faith only. I will trust what God says in His word. It’s the same trick Satan pulled with Eve. He basically told her what God said wasn’t true. Then, he said the OPPOSITE of what God said, “ You shall NOT die. That’s the same thing you are doing with James 2:24. GOD says we are NOT saved by faith only. YOU say,” Yes, we ARE SAVED by faith only.” You see? Satan ALWAYS SAYS THE OPPOSITE of what God says. I know what God has said in James 2:24. Eve knew what God had said to her. If I believe YOU, instead of GOD, then I am just repeating Eve’s mistake and sin. I choose to believe God. Here’s another example. GOD says in 1 Peter 3:21, “BAPTISM SAVES US.” Here’s what YOU say, “Baptism does NOT save us.” You see? It’s the scene in the garden of Eden all over again. If God says “yes”, Satan says “no”. If God says”no”, Satan says “yes.” You are saying the OPPOSITE of what God says. This is what I know: Satan uses people ( or things) to teach his lies. In the garden of Eden he used a serpent. In 1 Kings 13, he used an old prophet, who said the OPPOSITE of what God said. And in Matthew 16:23 he even used the apostle Peter. God said, “Do not believe every spirit, but test” the spirits to see if they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.” 1 John 4:1
I’m not at all interested in what MEN say in trying to “explain away” the parable of the sower and the parable of the Prodigal Son. Those parables are not hard to understand nor the meanings of those parables. The explanation given in trying to “get around” their meaning is much more complicated and confusing than the simplicity of what Jesus taught.
God has made it very plain for us: Galations 5:1-4 says “YOU HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE.”
Ephesians 2:5- Remember from where YOU HAVE FALLEN and repent.”1 Cor, 10:12- “Let him who thinks he stands take heed LEST HE FALL. Now, please answer me this: where did they FALL FROM? If they were never saved in the first place then they were already lost So WHERE DID THEY FALL FROM? GOD TOLD THE Christian’s in Ephesus they had “fallen”. He told the Christian’s at Corinth to be careful not to “fall.” FROM WHERE?? Please answer .
Not only that, WHERE DID THEY FALL TO?? If they were already lost, then where did they go when they “fell.? FELL TO WHERE?? Please answer.
Even in the Old Testament God shows us the saved can be lost. In Exodus 32:33 God plainly says that “WHOEVER SINS, I WILL BLOT OUT OF MY BOOK.” He repeats the message again in Revelation 3:5 when He says those who overcome (sin), I will NOT blot out of the book of life.” No misunderstanding that!! In Deut. 29:20 God is speaking to His chosen people Israel-His children and He tells them in verse 18 that there may be one of them whose HEART TURNS AWAY FROM GOD. Did you get that? It is possible that a child of God can TURN AWAY FROM GOD. But read on; in verse 20 God says “I will BLOT OUT HIS NAME FROM UNDER HEAVEN. That harmonizes perfectly with Rev. 3:5 and Exodus 32:33. God is telling us all through His book, that 1) a child of God can turn away from God, and 2) if he does he will lose his salvation. And 3) we can LOSE OUR CROWN. Rev. 3:11 says to be careful SOMEONE CAN TAKE YOUR CROWN AWAY!! Through false teaching or false teachers would be one way. And God warns us about these in 1 John 4:1. Lamentations 5:16 says, “THE CROWN HAS FALLEN FROM OUR HEAD. Woe to us for we have sinned.”

I'm going to answer this in the simplest way I can think of. Yes, it IS possible to lose salvation.

KJV Galatians 5:19-22
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Revelations also shines a similar light on the subject.

KJV Revelations 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me like losing salvation IS possible, if you fall under any of these categories. And yes, repenting and asking for forgiveness is ALWAYS a good idea.

That's correct. However, if they had no concept of right or wrong, then God could not have told Adam what He did in Genesis 2:17. How could God give a warning to someone who could not distinguish between obeying a command and disobeying a command?

They both had consciences at the time they were created, otherwise how could they have hidden from God not having a guilty conscience? All humans have a conscience (unlike animals), and conscience tells all humans what is right and what it wrong.

The difference is that we have an inner wrongness Adam, Eve and Christ never had to deal with.

Adam wanted to eat the fruit and Eve gave him the excuse he needed to justify his own evil desire and take the fruit and eat.

As far as your theory about it only applying to Adam? Guess you forgot.

Genesis 2:24
That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

What applied to Adam applied to Eve.

Agree! We have the example of Simon the sorcerer in Acts 8 as an example —both of loosing his salvation and what to do to regain it. Peter told him to repent and pray for forgiveness. If that’s what Simon had to do—that’s what we must do. Also.

It was about rejecting the truth. God could have said "don't pick your nose" and Adam would still have fallen if he disobeyed the

God kept the way to the tree of life.
He saves.

God clothed Adam and Eve, shedding blood to make garments for them by His own hand. He took away what they had made with their own hands, it being insufficient, and gave them the work of His own hand.
He saves.

and God prevented Adam and Eve from being able to eat of the tree of life until Messiah should come, because if they did they would be eternally in their state of sin.
God saves.

God preached to them the gospel, atoned for their sin, covered them, made the way to eternal life secure, and made it impossible for them to be eternally damned.
He saves, to the uttermost.

the doctrine of eternal security is right here in Genesis 3