The Gospels and the Mystery

It isn't "paul onlyism"; it is gospel-ism and is the gospel itself. The reverse is unhealthy, unscriptural and untenable.

When we look at the Gospel as preached by the twelve, and the Gospel given to Paul to be preached to Gentiles and Jews alike, it becomes quite clear, apart from over-spiritualizing everything one reads, that the two messages are not one and the same:

The Kingdom Gospel preached by Christ and the twelve:

Proclaimed repentance and water baptism for salvation (Acts 2:38)
Proclaimed the gospel of the kingdom ([URL='Matthew 4:17, Acts 3.19)
Saved and commissioned within Israel’s borders (Matthew 16:13, 16-17)
Taught in Christ’s earthly ministry
Ministered to Jews only (Matthew 10:5, Galatians 2:7-9)

The Gospel of Grace received and taught by Paul:

Proclaimed “believe” alone for salvation (Romans 4:5-6, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4)
Proclaimed the gospel of the grace of God (Acts 20:24)
Saved and commissioned outside Israel’s borders (Acts 9:3)
Was taught in Christ’s heavenly ministry (Galatians 1:1, 11-12)
Ministered primarily to Gentiles because of Jewish rejection (Romans 11:13, Galatians 2:7-9)

Paul was not taught by the twelve:

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received [it] not [as] the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

So, Paul was instructed by Christ Jesus, not other men in the mystery, which is the body of Christ, that was hidden in God, not the scriptures or the prophets:

1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Ephesians 3:2-7
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Not given to the twelve, but only to Paul, who then preached it to all others from that point onward. Paul already knew that the eleven were preaching, but THAT is the reason he persecuted them, and killed them. If Paul was only preaching what the others had already been preaching, then all the scriptures stating otherwise make no sense.

1 Corinthians 2:7-9
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

See that? Not even Satan and his demons knew of the Gospel of Grace that would be extended to the Gentiles until after it was revealed to, and preached by Paul. They would not have pushed for the crucifixion of Christ had they known that the kingdom of the Gentiles would be greatly diminished from their clutches through Paul's Gospel. They knew of the Kingdom Gospel, but they did NOT know of the Gospel of Grace and its impact until after it was too late.

Thoughts?

MM

So, no, Peter still was speaking of water baptism later in that same chapter, just as he commanded in Acts 10:

If you had only the knowledge of these men, would that be enough for salvation today?

1. Abraham
2. Moses
3. David
4. Disciple pre-resurrection

I may have misunderstood your point but you sound like your saying paul onlyism is gospelism wich is the gospel.


I would disagree with you. Paul onlyism aka hyper-dispensationalism is unhealthy, unscriptural and untenable....

The reverse is the good news taught by the whole of scripture revealed at the right time in the advent, life, death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus who ascended into heaven and now reigns as king of Kings and Lord of Lords. The mystery has been revealed in these last days (new covenant era) in Christ and by Christ.

I understand what you have been saying. That is why I asked you a couple if questions before I made a longer post.

I don't think you have understood the point I was making, that is, Peter, John and Paul et al preach the one, the
same and only gospel.

The idea of my allegedly "conflating" a point, such as water baptism, as being some overly big deal, that too is merely an opinion that minimizes a difference that violates the concept of grace and of a gift. To say that the different apostles only taught variations of one gospel is to erase a vastly important aspect of scripture...namely that salvation is of the Jews.

Where it was through Israel the Gentiles obtained salvation because salvation was of the Jews, that ceased when Israel was cut off. Jews and Gentiles no longer had access to salvation that was of the Jews. There had to be a change whereby Gentiles were "brought in" by some other means than the nation that had absolutely failed the Lord...failed to be a light and salt unto the world; set apart for the work of being the conduit through which salvation to the world was found, by way of the Blood of Christ. We failed, and so Jews and Gentiles needed some other means through which to obtain salvation, and grace alone through faith became that one and only means.

The legalistic ideas out there that one can somehow merit salvation by way of any work on the part of an individual, apart from faith, that absolutely will never work out for anyone.

MM

The Jews looked forward to a Savior, we look backwards to our Savior.

Then that’s another gospel other than the d,b,r for sins. Thanks for proving my point.

Claims in and of themselves prove nothing. I showed from scripture the differences in content within each Gospel, where you showed nothing. As an antagonist, your words don't carry any weight without evidence. What you quoted is only partial, and proves nothing for your case. Abraham did not know Christ Jesus, but his salvation was sealed because of his faith in YHWH that placed him IN Christ for salvation. So, yes, Christ is indeed the common foundation for salvation across all Gospels, but your lack of understanding about Israel and the fact that Gentiles had to become Jews to be saved, and how that relates to the differences between the Kingdom Gospel and the Gospel of Grace, they speak for themselves by way of content differences.

MM

When we look at the Gospel as preached by the twelve, and the Gospel given to Paul to be preached to Gentiles and Jews alike, it becomes quite clear, apart from over-spiritualizing everything one reads, that the two messages are not one and the same:

The Kingdom Gospel preached by Christ and the twelve:

Proclaimed repentance and water baptism for salvation (Acts 2:38)
Proclaimed the gospel of the kingdom ([URL='Matthew 4:17, Acts 3.19)
Saved and commissioned within Israel’s borders (Matthew 16:13, 16-17)
Taught in Christ’s earthly ministry
Ministered to Jews only (Matthew 10:5, Galatians 2:7-9)

The Gospel of Grace received and taught by Paul:

Proclaimed “believe” alone for salvation (Romans 4:5-6, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4)
Proclaimed the gospel of the grace of God (Acts 20:24)
Saved and commissioned outside Israel’s borders (Acts 9:3)
Was taught in Christ’s heavenly ministry (Galatians 1:1, 11-12)
Ministered primarily to Gentiles because of Jewish rejection (Romans 11:13, Galatians 2:7-9)

Paul was not taught by the twelve:

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received [it] not [as] the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

So, Paul was instructed by Christ Jesus, not other men in the mystery, which is the body of Christ, that was hidden in God, not the scriptures or the prophets:

1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Ephesians 3:2-7
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Not given to the twelve, but only to Paul, who then preached it to all others from that point onward. Paul already knew that the eleven were preaching, but THAT is the reason he persecuted them, and killed them. If Paul was only preaching what the others had already been preaching, then all the scriptures stating otherwise make no sense.

1 Corinthians 2:7-9
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

See that? Not even Satan and his demons knew of the Gospel of Grace that would be extended to the Gentiles until after it was revealed to, and preached by Paul. They would not have pushed for the crucifixion of Christ had they known that the kingdom of the Gentiles would be greatly diminished from their clutches through Paul's Gospel. They knew of the Kingdom Gospel, but they did NOT know of the Gospel of Grace and its impact until after it was too late.

Thoughts?

MM

Adam didn’t have what we have. He was not saved. The best outcome for Adam is to die and end up in the heart of the earth, safe from hell fire. That is not salvation as we know it today. Adam had no knowledge of the cross, the d,b,r of Jesus for sins.

The gospel unto salvation is specifically how Christ died, was buried, and resurrected the third day. Adam had no such belief in the cross. To say so is making things up.

That much I understood, but what I was wondering about are the differences where they are not one and the same. Some have tried to tell me that 1 Corinthians 15 is just an overview, which leads to the idea that Paul, then, we guilty of giving to them only part of the saving Gospel...as if works complete or perfect one's justification. All of that completely undermines the unmerited nature of the Grace that has been bestowed upon us through faith. Our salvation is also referred to as a "gift," and yet there are many factions out there who also claim works as the merit for salvation, all of which nullifies it being a gift and that it is unmerited. I ask them what part of this that they don't understand, and they continue to argue senselessly, as if Paul was mealy-mouthed, and incapable of saying what he meant:

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Where it's true that Paul couched this stand-alone argument within the context of Israel not being cast away, it remains true that some statements/arguments within a given context can and do exist as true outside the home context within which it was seated. Some things a simply empirical, all-encompassing if you will. Grace is what it is, standing alone in the dryness of the desert without the watering of works. It is without need for that watering, and yet anyone who knows anything about such things as desert cacti understands that even just a little water can kill the plant, allegorically speaking. Grace is without need for anything from us apart from faith:

Ephsians 2:5-9
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

That is so self-explanatory, and yet there are those who think they can add to it some work from the Kingdom Gospel what Paul never stated, as the apostle to the Gentiles. It's true that Peter, for a very short time, preached to Gentiles, but Paul's assignment was absolutely to the Gentiles after having experienced rejection from fellow Jews.

We Israelites are indeed a stiff-necked people...as a people. His-story bears this out...

MM

All of the apostles (including Paul) proclaimed the identical gospel message, for there is but one gospel – a gospel of grace alone,

Hi rogerg,

That is basically what i was saying in post #125. Its all by grace. One gospel for all people. And its taught in all the NT. The good news being Christ himself (advent, life, death, resurrection etc)

Sola Scriptura
Sola fide
Solus Christus
Sola Gratia
Soli Deo Gloria.

When dealing with hyper dispensationalist / paul onlyist. We can't jusy say saved by grace alone as they will agree with that statement. The answer we can give which is the truth... What is the Gospel.. Its nature, necessity and purpose etc. And knowing, ultimately that, the one true gospel starts with the person of Christ.

Anyhow rogerc, looks like we are on the same side. In post #125 i wasn't referring to how the gospel is appropiated, i was discussing some aspects of what it is.