The Coming Tribulation: Many Brethren Are Ignorant About It

Your list is what is misleading, and I gave some strong clues with the first couple of examples. I'm not going to waste my time going through the whole list, when it's easy to know Biblically the first couple of items aren't even correct per Bible Scripture. To the Biblical unstudied, that list looks accurate, because of how it proposes verse comparisons as being about the same subject when they in reality are not. The only way to know this is by going to each verse and studying the actual 'context' of the Bible Chapter where they appear, and having a working knowledge of all the various description examples in The Bible about those events.

Absolute truth.

I think Jesus is using the first person personal pronoun (MY/ P1GS, mou in Greek) along with his own name(Jesus) to establish the difference between someone coming claiming to be "the Christ" and instead he is meaning that many would come in his name(Jesus) and claim that he(Jesus) is the "Christ" and deceive many in Matthew 24:5. What I see him saying is many false prophets(verse 11) will come claiming Jesus is the Christ and deceive many(i.e.false Christians) not that they are claiming that they are the Messiah or Jesus. https://www.blueletterbible.org/tools/interlinear/tr/mat/24/5/

Around and around we go again and nobody will change their mind!

And Jesus himself cut off any possibility of misinterpretation by using two different first person personal pronouns in verse 5. First "My"(name) then second "I" am the Christ in the same sentence. The rule of usage in Greek is that if a name or noun is substituted which Jesus did on purpose, i.e. my name and Christ then it's all first person. If he intended it to be third person he would have used afti, "they"(masculine), aftes "they", (female) or afta "they" (neutral). https://www.greekpod101.com/blog/20... —,meaning “women,” then αυτές should be used.

The only thing I disagree with in this otherwise good sentence ( ) is the word "symbolic".

It is not a "symbolic" measure of time, but a literal measure of time: "seventy SEVENS [shebua - H7620]".



It is CONTEXT which determines whether "sevens [of YEARS]" or "sevens [of DAYS]" or "sevens [of WHATEVER]"... but that literal amount of time.

In this case, it is easy to determine that the context refers to "sevens [of YEARS]". (So, "seventy sevens [of YEARS]"... 69 of those having concluded in the first century, on the very day that He RODE into Jerusalem [fulfilling Zech 9:9] and SAID the words He said in Lk19:42-44--BOTH of these passages having to do with "Jerusalem / thy [Daniel's] holy city," which is what that Dan9:24-27 "time-prophecy" is PERTAINING to);

Bottom line, on this point, it is not a "symbolic" measure of time, but "literal"... using the word "sevens [shabua - H7620]" (CONTEXT determining whether "sevens" of DAYS, or "sevens" of YEARS, or whatever... literally.


It seems to differ, in that, you seem only to be acknowledging the "42 mos" (or "1260 days")... what is commonly known as the second half (or "the GREAT tribulation"... 2Th2:4b kicks off that second half, among other things).


Well, since THEIR "1260 days" CONCLUDES with the wording about "the SECOND WOE is past" (associated with the "6th Trumpet [events]"), then "the days of their prophecy" does not run entirely "concurrently" with the "second half" (THOSE 1260 days), because the second half doesn't END with "the SECOND WOE" (there still remains to play out: "the 7th Trumpet [events] / THIRD Woe / 1st Vial" and "6 more Vials" yet, before Christ's Second Coming to the earth in Rev19 [/Matt24:29-31 / Isa27:9,12-13] which is what CONCLUDES the "second half").


I disagree that this is what the wording means, there in that passage (I've explained that in past posts, so won't elaborate here, on that).



Well, I disagree with those who suggest that it has now been shortened to "five months". The "five months" referred to in scripture pertains solely to the "5th Trumpet [events]"... but the tribulation period (as we commonly call it) covers: Seals 1-7, Trumpets 1-7, Vials 1-7... not merely the "5th Trumpet / 1st Woe" events alone. No.




How are you saying that I "missed" that phrase, when in my post I actually used CAPS, and UNDERLINING to emphasize that very phrase, myself.

I've not missed that phrase.

I'm pointing out how it PARALLELS the wording in Daniel 7:21, which states essentially the SAME THING, in its wording of: "the same horn [/king] MADE WAR with the saints, and PREVAILED AGAINST them"
(let the readers note what Matt16:18 shows Jesus saying about "My church" [future tense] - https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/mat/16/18/p0/t_concif_945018 "shall NOT";
see word in LXX of Dan7:21 - https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g2480/kjv/lxx/0-2/#lexResults )






Then, let the readers note that the word "overcome G3528 [them]" in Rev13:7 https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/rev/13/7/p0/t_concif_1180007
(parallel to Dan7:21 as I'm pointing out), is the SAME GREEK WORD used 2x in Revelation 6:2 :

(translated in the kjv there as "conquering [G3528] [and] to conquer [G3528]"... SAME GREEK WORD as in 13:7 (same "person" in both also!)--https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/rev/6/2/ss1/t_concif_1173002
--THIS (in 6:2) is the FIRST ACTION of that person we call "the Antichrist" or "the man of sin"... in his "whose COMING / ADVENT / ARRIVAL / PRESENCE / PAROUSIA" [2Th2:9a] at the START of the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period we call "the SEVEN YEAR trib" or the "70th SEVEN [/"for ONE WEEK/shabua [7 yrs]"], which takes place WELL-BEFORE the 2Th2:4b "sitteth" thing, which is at the MID-trib point)

What actually is... the Biblical idea of "great tribulation" going to be about??
Once again you are only describing the SAME... event, and not two separate times of Christ's coming.

Per the Zechariah 9:9-10 prophecy about Jesus' coming, it mentions ONLY TWO comings, His 1st coming to die on the cross; and His second coming to take reign over all nations.

The warning against the false pre-trib rapture theory still must go out, whether the deceived will listen or not.

The church, the Body of Christ is currently in Great Tribulation Acts 14 22


Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much/great tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

The word much here is the greek word polys and it translated geat 59 x

What is it then, that will make the coming "great tribulation" a time of tribulation?

1. Jesus showed all war (militaries fighting each other) will have stopped, which means a time of one-world peace (Matt.24:6; Rev.13:4).

2. Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5 marked the future great tribulation by the deceived saying, "Peace and safety" before a "sudden destruction" comes upon them at the very end of the trib.

3. Per Daniel 8:23-25, the coming "king of fierce countenance" is to destroy many using PEACE, and craft will prosper by his hand.


ONE-WORLD GOVERNMENT:
If you are not aware of the globalist plans to create a "one world government" over all... nations, then you are way, way behind in understanding what is actually going on. That plan has been in the works by the world powers for centuries. Even U.S. presidents have mentioned it, at least back to president Woodrow Wilson. Ever heard the term 'New World Order'? That's one of their watchwords. What about the formation of the League of Nations, which would become the United Nations? Did you know that Soviet Russia agreed to join the U.N. if it followed the precepts of a "one world government"? After all, that actually has been the plan of world communism all along. If you are not aware of that, then again, you are way, way behind in understanding what has been going on, and what is coming.

That strategy for a "one world government" is... what the 1st beast of Revelation 13:1-2 is about, which is a kingdom beast over all nations. Jesus described what those waters represent in Revelation 17:15 as a symbol for "peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues."

Since world peace with a one-world kingdom over all nations is actually the plan for the future, and God's Word even confirms that, how are we to understand what the "great tribulation" will be about. Preachers who keep pushing the fibs that future will be all out WWIII and chaos have obviously got it wrong, and are just following their own sensationalist thoughts instead of staying in God's Word about it. Recall that the main time of physical strife with wars, nation against nation, famine, earthquakes and pestilences, is for the time that Lord Jesus called the "beginning of sorrows", a time just prior... to the "great tribulation". (Matthew 24:4-8)

What will the "great tribulation" actually be about then, that will make it a time on earth like it that has never been before, nor ever will be again, as Lord Jesus said in Matthew 24:21?

THE ANSWER: That Satan himself, with his angels, are coming to earth, in plain sight, with Satan playing The Christ in Jerusalem.

That truly does sounds fantastic, I know, especially with all the false preaching that Satan and his angels would have to take on a flesh body in order to just appear in our earthly dimension here on earth. Satan has the image of 'man' just as all the angels do. So they do not need a flesh body to appear on earth. Even Lord Jesus appeared to Abraham in Genesis 18 without the need for a flesh body, and the two angels He sent to Lot appeared to Abraham with Him.

There's a MAJOR PROBLEM with lack of understanding among many of my Christian brethren today. Many do... not... understand about the 2 different dimensions of existence per God's Word, this earthly dimension and the heavenly dimension, nor how they relate to each other. In 1 Corinthians 15, Apostle Paul said even in the resurrection we shall bear the "image of the heavenly", so that should have been a huge clue of things are going to change here on earth when Lord Jesus does return.

Well, that same understanding about this earthly dimension and the heavenly dimension, and how those of the heavenly can move within our earthly dimension, many brethren are not taught from God's Word. It's like that kind of understanding for many brethren is a fantasy, and only belongs in a Disney movie, etc.

No, this coming event for the future "great tribulation" is not going to be like some Disney movie. It's going to be very real, very serious, and it will involve Satan tricking you into believing he is The Christ having returned, and thus capturing your soul. That is what he is after, your soul, not your flesh body.

This is why Lord Jesus in His Olivet discourse showed that when someone comes up to us and says, "Behold, Christ is here, or there", Jesus said to not believe it. (Matthew 24:23-26). Jesus even showed that coming pseudo-Christ will be so powerful in deception, his working false great signs and wonders, that IF it were possible..., it would deceive even Jesus' very elect.

THAT... is what the coming "great tribulation" is going to be about, a falling away to worship Satan who comes first playing Jesus Christ. THAT... is what Apostle Paul was warning us about with that "man of sin" appearing in a new temple in Jerusalem for the end, and that one coming with all power of signs and lying wonders (2 Thessalonians 2).

Even in 2 Corinthians 11, Apostle Paul was warning us about the "another Jesus" that some preach, that Satan is disguised as an angel of light, and his angels as the ministers of righteousness. Paul said he was afraid we might instead listen to those false preachers pushing that "another Jesus", and not remain faithful to Jesus, for his desire is to present us as "a chaste virgin" to our TRUE HUSBAND Jesus Christ! So did you know there will be "another Jesus" coming first with Satan in that role working all power of signs and wonders to deceive the whole world with?

Lord Jesus even said the deceived will wonder at that beast king that will ascend up out of the bottomless pit, because their names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. (Rev.13:11-14; Rev.17:8) I don't want you to be deceived by going to that first one coming to play Christ, neither does Lord Jesus want you to be deceived by that, which is why He showed this clearly in His Word, if we'd only listen to Him, instead of the deceived teachers that heed men's doctrines instead.

(Continued...)

(Continued...)

Thus the "great tribulation" will be truly great, affecting 2 types of folks in two ways:

1. for those who will be deceived by the false-Messiah that comes first prior to Jesus' coming to gather His Church.

2. for those of us who stand in Jesus Christ, and are aware that coming false-Messiah is going to be Satan himself appearing on earth, in Jerusalem, as The Christ, working all great signs and wonders and miracles to deceive the whole world, except Christ's elect. We will be persecuted for making that stand in Jesus Christ, and Satan's host will try to convert us to worship him.

For those who will make a 'stand' against the beast during the future "great tribulation", with the Gospel armor on, like Apostle Paul taught about the "evil day" in Ephesians 6, we will be hated even by deceived brethren, friends, and family. (See Mark 13 with Jesus' forewarning about that). Some of us may expect to be killed, like Jesus said there, and to remain faithful to Him even unto death. Jesus told those who remain faithful waiting for His coming, that some of us will be delivered up to give a TESTIMONY for Him by The Holy Spirit, and not to think what we will say in that hour, but speak what The Holy Spirit gives us to speak (Mark 13:9-13).

But for the deceived, you folks will be saying, "Peace and safety" has finally come on earth, thinking that false-Messiah actually is our Lord Jesus Christ having returned. This is not a far out statement, this is the very point that Lord Jesus and His Apostles, especially Apostles Paul and John, were making about the coming false one at the end of this world, i.e., for the time of "great tribulation". Remember, Lord Jesus in Matt.24:23-26 said 'don't believe it', when someone says 'Christ is here, or there', or in the secret chambers (Jerusalem temple), or in the desert.

Even with the following warning, most preachers show they don't understand this, because they instead wrongly teach that it is about Satan being cast down back in history at his first rebellion...

Rev 12:7-12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

That future war in Heaven is the subject of the Daniel 12:1 verse when Archangel Michael makes a "stand", and then it mentions a time on earth that has never ever been the likes before, nor ever will be again, i.e., a "great tribulation" marker. Immediately then, we should know that war in heaven is about the future, even future to our time. Yet there are more clues here.

I put that above "neither was their place found any more in heaven" in red because it bears special attention about this future casting out. Per God's Word there are only two different dimensions of existence, like I had said before, this earthly one and the heavenly one. If you are cast out of one, it means you have to appear in the other one. Since Satan that "dragon", with his angels, are to be cast out of heaven, with no more place in the heavenly found for them, it means THEY ARE COMING TO EARTH IN OUR DIMENSION. This earthly dimension is the ONLY OTHER place they can go. Thus Lord Jesus is giving us a HUGE CLUE with that idea, showing that Satan and his angels are coming to earth, among us literally, in person, in plain sight, and not hidden behind some antichrist flesh figure.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Ask yourself, did that "salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ" come back when Satan originally fell? No, because Lord Jesus had not even been born in the flesh yet to die on the cross when Satan first fell from heaven.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

What does that idea of overcoming "by the blood of the Lamb" point to? It points to FAITH on the Blood of Jesus Christ shed upon His cross! Ask yourself again, did that happen back when Satan first rebelled against God and fell from heaven? No! Not only that, but that is about the overcomers linked to those fellow-servants of the 5th Seal that are to be killed at the end. Thus we know for sure those did not exist back when Satan first fell, for Jesus, that "Lamb", had not died on His cross yet back when Satan originally fell.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
KJV

That literally means what it says, the devil himself is coming to our... earthly dimension, and he knows he has only a "short time" to work the great signs, wonders, and miracles to deceive the whole world with (except Christ's elect who are aware of this). This will be the casting out that Jesus mentioned for the devil in the Book of John. It has not happened yet, but it is getting ready to happen, and is what will cause the future time of "great tribulation" upon us, for Lord Jesus does not come to gather us until AFTER... this coming "great tribulation", like He foretold us in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27.

Sounds like you fail to understand what a 'symbol' is. A symbol is used to represent... something literal. So you've only gone around in circles with your attempt to explain that concept away. In the KJV, the translators used the 'symbol' of a "week" to represent each period of 'seven' in the manuscripts. And the Daniel 9:27 verse is about the final "one week" to complete the 70 weeks prophecy given in that Chapter.

Sorry, I don't have time to respond to the rest of your post.

Sorry, but that idea is NOT about the future time of "great tribulation" that will be a time on earth that has never been the like before, nor ever will be again...

Dan 12:1
12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
KJV

Matt 24:21
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
KJV

That time when Archangel Michael will make that stand will be when Satan and his angels are cast down to this earth for the coming "great tribulation" in the final generation on earth. That is... the timing Jesus was talking about in His Olivet discourse of Matthew 24 and Mark 13, which are the Seals of Revelation 6, a definite marker of endtime SIGNS He gave for the final generation that will literally 'see'... His future return.

"It's surprising how many of my Christian brethren follow a bunch of men of what the future "great tribulation" will be about instead of actually understanding about it per God's written Word."

Well here you are doing the exact same thing your talking about. You are one of those telling GODS people what you personally believe is the real truth. Its not worth getting into since you didn't search on this good enough. What was written in the 1600's about Christ coming before the great tribulation? What was written by a Hymn writer in 300-400AD about Christ coming before the great tribulation? I can keep going here but all it would prove is we have talked about preached about Christ coming before the great tribulation since He left.

So .. your just another telling Gods people what HE really was saying. That 1st letter Paul wrote there was no REV book/letter and the revelation Paul had... yet never said per mid post. To make Post work to make Pre work to make MID work with in each one we have to toss out some verses... add other verses and add "what that really means". Christ going back to make us a home and will come get us "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am." See they at that time fully understood what He was saying. Go search on an old Jewish wedding. Who taught them to have a wedding like that? Yeah Jesus is coming in the clouds and the dead will rise but don't worry the won't go before us we get changed and all go up together to meet and be with Christ forever. But its going to happen after you go through the worst time that has ever been on earth and never will again. Now go confront each other with these words.

Not even what He said.. not even hinted at. its man adding all this stuff. WHY we don't say He is coming to get us we don't know when so watch and pray be ready now. Tell them truth. You were not promised tomorrow so live in the moment you have. Keep looking up.. be ready now. What you fail to tell people is God will never go against your will. He has never forced you to believe anything. So if you are not looking are not ready you do not believe He can come any moment.. you think He will go against your will anyway and take you? For you .. it will be as a thief came. No one saw Him but not a thief but HE took what was His. He didn't ask any man if it was ok to take two in the OT. Matters not what you and I say or believe. He is coming like He said.. dead will rise.. we will be changed and be with Him forever. It is not written where you are I will be. So just look up be ready now. You were only given this moment.. so live in this moment for Him..always looking up and you will never miss Him. ASK HIM don't believe anything I say..

I can't prove pre trib any more then I can prove post trib. So ask Him about pre trib post trib.. go for it.. no one has ever heard about pre or post. No one.. .. best be living for Him now.. watch for Him now.. or not your free choice.. what happens or does not.. its not Him.. its you believed or didn't

@DavyP

I disagree

Ever since I was delivered from the whole Left Behind worldview, I've honestly just taken the stance of "What does it matter?" when it comes to end times doctrines, While I don't believe in any form of rapture teaching, I find the debate of the timeline of tribulation a trivial matter. Until I meet with my Savior in whatever way He sees fit, should I care about how bad any tribulation is and when it occurs, as long as I'm walking as closely to Him as possible all the time?

So to those who find this topic important, with all respect and humility, I'm curious as to why?

It really is a trivial matter all we need to know is we will have trials and Jesus is coming back. "But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. " I'm not going to give my crown away for some conspiracy theories that may or not be true, focus on the present is what the bible says and keep your path straight.

Jesus commanded the church to teach all things.
All things are in the Scripture, from Gen. to Rev.
If it is not important, not necessary, not to be studied and known, why is it there?
NO SCRIPTURE IS TRIVIAL!!!

If you're ready to endure to the end for the Lord, then that is completely fine to me.

I think this topic is important because most people don't have the same attitude you do. I believe that the Lord Jesus will return to collect us AFTER the great tribulation and I notice that most pre-tribbers aren't spiritually preparing for the severe persecution that comes with living through it.

They can keep hoping for pre-trib, but I would like them to prepare to endure and succeed in doing so (knowing that the Lord's collecting us is after the tribulation).


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That was a very foolish reply. I have been a student of Holy Scripture for thirty plus years... you don't think I know what is taught by our Lord as recorded in Matthew or Mark? Really brother, you should desire to listen (read) as well as talk (type).