The Real Antichrist For The End

No, when Satan went to war with God's angels in heaven and was cast to the earth at his original rebellion of old... is what you... are talking about, not I, and not the Revelation 12:7-17 Scripture either.

I have already shown in those Revelation 12:7-11 Scriptures that event is for the end of this world, simply because it contains references to those who 'overcome' in Christ, and the Power of Christ having come. That did not... ever happen back when Satan first rebelled in the old world, simply because Christ had not been born yet in the flesh to die on the cross, so this is actually very easy to grasp per that Revelation 12:7-11 Scripture.

Thus, I don't understand why any believing Christian would try and fight against that simple revelation that Jesus gave there about Satan and his angels coming to earth at the end of this world, especially since God said Satan's destruction will be "upon the earth" per Ezekiel 28:18. Even Isaiah 14 reveals in the world to come that we will look over at Satan in the pit and say, "Is this the man that...?"

I don't keep men's traditions, and the old Jewish idea that Satan's abode is somewhere inside the earth is a man-made doctrine by those who cannot understand about the heavenly dimension, simply because they try to use their fleshy carnal mind to explain a spiritual matter, which is impossible to do.


Rev 12:10
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."
KJV

The Rev.12:10 declaration when Satan and his angels are kicked out of heaven, "Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, ... ," reveals a specific time, the very end of this world.

So breaking that Rev.12:10 verse down means this...

"Now is come salvation, and strength..." where is it written that Salvation came when Satan was first cast down to earth? Jesus hadn't even been born in the flesh yet back then, and had not fulfilled His Salvation on His cross yet.

"... and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: ...." = so that came back when Satan first rebelled against God, coveting God's Throne, and God cast him to earth back then? No, afraid not; Jesus had not come yet to die on the cross back then.

"... for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, ...." = just what "brethren" back when Satan first fell would that be? That is obvious this Rev.12:7-9 casting Satan and his angels out of heaven is for the end of this world, not back when Satan first fell. These "brethren" is a pointer to those in Christ Jesus.

Thus that Rev.12:7-11 Scripture is very simple about what 'specific' time it is pointing to, i.e., the very end of this world.

It does indeed reveals a specific time, and not in ancient past and not in the furure.

Um, I think Satan only got cast out of heaven once, which I think has already happened, so I think it's written right here in the verses we are discussing He was already born when when Satan and the third got chucked out of heaven So you can see Salvation is not a future event, thats it's already happened and the cross was the mechanism in the past, so why do you think salvation is a future event?

the cross is a past event not a future event, If you don't believe me when I say Salvation has already come, believe Jesus.

Luk 19:9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
Luk 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

I know you mean the cross gives us salvation as the mechanism, but it is the Lord who is our Salvation.

Remember Simeon he was told by God he would not see death before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

and this is what he said

Luk 2:29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
Luk 2:30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,

So again read "Now is come salvation, and strength... in Rev 12:10 and see it is a past event, it was right after the Lord stooped down to earth to become a man, after He made Himself lower than angels.

No, why is everything still to happen in the future in your eyes, lol.

This is highlighting an occurrence that happened in the past, its not a general generalisation for people to apply to whatever, it has a bit deeper meaning than that, in the Old testament, Satan continually accused the saints, and Israel, and there is a certain incident in Zech chapter 3, where Joshua the high priest stands before the angel of the Lord dressed in filthy rags. And Satan opposes Him, the Lord then rebukes Satan and then puts clean clothes on Joshua.

I wont go into depth on Zech 3 but ill try and explain this point, the Lord also came in meekness and lowliness, in sackcloth.

Psa 69:7 Because for thy sake I have borne reproach; shame hath covered my face.
Psa 69:8 I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children.
Psa 69:9 For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me.
Psa 69:10 When I wept, and chastened my soul with fasting, that was to my reproach.
Psa 69:11 I made sackcloth also my garment; and I became a proverb to them.

So Satan continually accused those who belong to the Lord, and they were in deed sinners clothed in filthy rags.

Yet the Lord has now put clean clothes on them, now they are righteous and Satans accusations ended up directed at the Son of God.
Him Who knew no sin, became sin for us and cleaned our filthy rags.

So brother we are now wearing clean clothes, we have been washed in the blood, payment was made for our sins by Christ at Calvary. We have already received salvation.

Satan does not accuse us anymore, for more than the obvious reason of he was cast out and no longer can, but because we are no longer seen as sinners.

So without being specific the brethren here is Israel.

Our most monumentous event in our history, is when the Lord became flesh and dwelt among us, there were signs in the heavens, the dragon even appeared in heaven, he cast the stars to the ground, the demonic activity was crazy as the fallen angels were terrorising people, yet you have it happening in the distant past or happening in the future.

“No, when Satan went to war with God's angels in heaven and was cast to the earth at his original rebellion of old... is what you... are talking about, not I, and not the Revelation 12:7-17 Scripture either.”

This is about the messiah promised to israel being born in earth overcoming Satan and then being taken up to sit on his throne in heaven .

“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron:
( the ot promises this of the son of man the messiah psalm 2 , Daniel 7: 13-14))


and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

( the messiah the ruler of heaven and earth Jesus , was taken up to his throne in heaven and then )

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

( this isn’t happening in earth John os seeing things in heaven where Christ arrives and is enthroned and then Satan and all the evil is banned and barred from heaven forever )

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth,

( Jesus left the earth and went up into heaven annd Satan was cast out into earth )and his angels were cast out with him.

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.

( that’s the new state of heaven where Christ is seated )


Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

( that’s the state of the earth while heaven is on victory earth is still in the fight the war spilled into earth )

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:5, 7-12, 17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Now the church is at war on earth with the enemy the devil who’s trying to devour them and lead them astray. The devil is a spiritual being not a man, the “ man of sin “ is like Jesus an embodiment of God who is a spirit Jesus was God manifest in the flesh and blood of a man

That’s what the “ anti christ “ was then , and also will be a when he returns with ten kings. An embodiment of the spiritual dragon like the beast with the same appearance as the dragon


Satans spirit in the earth is why you look around and so many people are lying cheating stealing serving his Will murders rapes thefts robberies abuses and defilement’s false gods a plenty false religions rampant in all the world ect

“But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭4:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You can see the devils face everywhere see his fingerprints on the world because his ideas and spirit is anctive in people everywhere.

just like Gods spirit helps and encourages and gives us strength people also operate in the earth by satans spirit having rejected Christs there’s nothing left





imagine if you were like John called up into heaven and then shown the state of the earth right now……

what would it look like

nuclear war looms someday when two nations disagree or have issues . We’ve gone from warring with sticks and stones to Henares and rifles to planes and tanks to well bombs that can literally incinerate hundreds of thousands of people and travel thousands of miles or hour reaching global distances in minutes

These things aren’t Gods design for man but mans design for our own world apart from and in violation of Gods ways ….the world prefers the dragons ways to be honest in the end that’s why it seems so harshly punished and burned up

You fail to rightly divide that Rev.12 chapter according to its timelines. Not all verses in that chapter are of the same time.

I see

Arnold.. he has acting school? No I have no clue who this is nor do I want to know thank you.

Yeah I agree about the antichrist for when He who is now holds back the lawless one is taken out of the way then and only then will he come out in the open and do lying wonders that will appear as only a god can do. Can't happen now since we are still here. Well from what I read we have been given all power all authority over the enemy and nothing shall by any means hurt us. The gates of hell will never come against the church. Right now every believer has the king of kings lord of lords GOD in them and the sweet holy spirit with them forever.

Now since no one clearly knows about what can or can not possess a person. Well I mean I believe demons do since they have no body they are always looking for home where as fallen angels ..yeah.. angel? They do not need to possess man. Now we don't know its not written. Why possess a man when you can look like one? Oh but greater is He that is in me then he thats in the world. Just another verse showing all the demons and fallen angels with Satan can not stand against one believer for its really CHRIST in that believer.. we are nothing..its always 100% Yeshua/Jesus Christ.. haha guess what song is playing now? "IN JESUS NAME" by glory. In jesus name our sins are washed away. In Jesus name there is healing for the hopeless.... on and on. Holy holy you are worthy.. Thank you Father for that.. Him.

Yet it is pretty easy to see which verses are at the same time.

There is always verses, bible critics use to show that the bible contradicts itself, for example read this,

John 20:12 and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus’ body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot.
Mark 16:5 As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed.

Same event? same time? Of course it is, its just showing us the events from different perspectives, there are thousands of examples throughout scripture where we see the same event from different perspectives, the reason is two fold, it gives the believer more information to digest and look at, It gives opportunity for those who want to deny the truth to, well, to deny the truth.

Same thing happens in Rev 12.

But by now we are so use to reading the bible in the topical format that God so often sets out throughout scriptures, I naturally apply it here in Rev 12, to the point that when I see events I naturally assume there will not be only one account but multiple accounts of the same event, for example.

Rev 12:3-4 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born.

Rev 12:7:8 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven.


Rev 12:9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

This is obviously in the past, when the demons were thrown to earth, at the time Jesus was made flesh. It is just recapping the same event so we can see more than one angle.

And then you have the verses that are obviously future in the tribulation period.

Rev 12:6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

Rev 12:14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach.

Again the same event from more than one angle.

The more momentous the event the more views or angles of it we get to see, look at the cross for example, Jesus wasn't crucified four different times but the gospel accounts are harmonious and it was the one and same event, same as Rev 12 there wasn't one third of the angels thrown out of heaven and the later another third of the angels thrown out, besides it would make the math too hard to work out, does that mean two thirds of the angels were thrown out of heaven, or just a third and then a third of two thirds thrown out the next time?

Well, what you are saying was not my point in my post to Pilgrimshope at all.

What your Rev.12 interpretation appears to be following is your idea about different writers explaining the same event, like between the different Gospel Books. Not what I'm talking about with the idea of Apostle Paul's 'rightly dividing' the Scriptures.


An example:
in Luke 4, at the start of Christ's Ministry, He went into the temple and read from the Book of Isaiah chapter 61. He read until He got to the last phrase of Isaiah 61:2...

Isa 61:2
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
KJV

He read all of Isaiah 61:1 and that first phrase of verse 2, but not that above part in red. And then He closed the Book and said what He read was then fulfilled in their ears.

So why didn't He continue to read that last phrase of verse 2 above?

Simple, one has to rightly divide the timelines given in God's written Word. That last phrase of verse 2 is about His future 2nd coming, which is still yet to happen. Likewise, there's many examples of these timeline divisions written in the Book of Revelation, for it follows a format closer to the Old Testament Books of the prophets than the other New Testament Books.

Revelation 12:1-4:
This covers the time from the beginning of God's ordaining of Israel via the family of the man Adam and the Seed of the Woman, and the start of Her Seed of Abel, with the "dragon" standing by ready to devour Her Seed (via Cain's murder). Verse 3 & 4 define what the "dragon" did before in rebellion against God, drawing one third of the angels ("stars") into rebellion with him in the old world prior to Adam, and thus the "dragon" having back then setup the first beast kingdom that had ten horns, seven heads, but only seven crowns.

Revelation 12:5:
The symbolic Woman birthed The Son of God Who was crucified and raised by The Father, and His Son Jesus The Christ is to reign over all nations with a rod of iron, and He was caught up to The Father, now sitting on the right hand of The Father's throne.

Revelation 12:6:
The first 1260 days half of the Daniel 9:27 symbolic "one week" (7 years), a prophecy for the very end of this world.

Revelation 12:7-17:
That war in heaven is for the END of this world. I have already proven that by the Rev.12:10-11 verses which are obviously... events for the END of this world.

Revelation 12:10-11:
Revelation 12:7 forward Covers the time when that "dragon" (Satan) is cast out of the heavenly dimension down to earth, in OUR earthly dimension, with his angels. Verse 14 marks the LATTER HALF of the Daniel 9:27 "one week", the actual time of "great tribulation" that Jesus forewarned in His Olivet discourse signs for the end. Verse 11 is about the future event of saints being delivered up to give a Testimony at the end of this world, which is about the 5th Seal of Revelation 6 linked to that sign Jesus gave in Mark 13.

That Revelation 12:7 war in heaven is what the following event is about, when Archangel Michael makes the 'stand' against Satan for the END of this world, and boots him out of heaven down to this earth...

Dan 12:1
12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
KJV

That first "And at that time" connects the previous Daniel 11 chapter verses about the "vile person" of that chapter who represents the final Antichrist coming at the end of this world. This Daniel 12:1 verse connects to that previous subject about the placing of the "abomination of desolation" IDOL in Jerusalem for the end (Matt.24:15).

Notice that "and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time" is connected to that subject of when Michael makes that 'stand', and is also... connected to the latter "and at that time" when "thy people shall be delivered...", even pointing directly to Christ's saints.

And then, that Daniel 12:1 verse connects to the signs Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse about the time of "great tribulation" for the end of this world just prior to His future 2nd coming.

Matt 24:15-21
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
KJV

The above warning Jesus gives about seeing the "abomination of desolation" IDOL in Jerusalem, and then showing that is when the "great tribulation" time will be just prior to His future return, all link back to that Daniel 11 chapter with the "vile person" who will be behind the placing of that "abomination of desolation" IDOL in Jerusalem for the END, and also that Daniel 12:1 verse that is describing that time of "great tribulation" as "a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time."

This... is how to properly 'rightly divide' The Word of Truth like Apostle Paul was telling Timothy in 2 Timothy 2:15.

Ive asked you before, and ill try asking again, so I can answer according to how you think!

In the gospels we have accounts of fallen angels, who are demons.

Who are these fallen angels? where did they come from? and can you rightly divide this by providing the associated verses to the answer?

Thanks, in advance

they did not even know the Christ when he came here to earth and had him killed, only to their demise, when they saw him risen as revealed in Col. 2 thank you Lord

Its interesting that the demons knew exactly who Jesus was, in Him dwells the fullness of the Godhead in bodily form.

Luke 4:31:35 Then he went down to Capernaum, a town in Galilee, and on the Sabbath he taught the people. They were amazed at his teaching, because his words had authority. In the synagogue there was a man possessed by a demon, an impure spirit. He cried out at the top of his voice,

“Go away! What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God!”

“Be quiet!” Jesus said sternly. “Come out of him!” Then the demon threw the man down before them all and came out without injuring him.


Mark 5:1-8 They went across the lake to the region of the Gerasenes. When Jesus got out of the boat, a man with an impure spirit came from the tombs to meet him. This man lived in the tombs, and no one could bind him anymore, not even with a chain. For he had often been chained hand and foot, but he tore the chains apart and broke the irons on his feet. No one was strong enough to subdue him. Night and day among the tombs and in the hills he would cry out and cut himself with stones.

When he saw Jesus from a distance, he ran and fell on his knees in front of him. He shouted at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? In God’s name don’t torture me!” For Jesus had said to him, “Come out of this man, you impure spirit!”

amazing, the demons know, therefore we are to work out our own salvation between God and each person personally. The demons know and fear and tremble. The flesh once it has made its choice to believe God, to put their Faith in God, are freed in no more fear. Yet the flesh, when it makes the concious choice to not believe God and act as do to the people, having no fear seen. Actually do as that day to be seen will be seen.
go away, I never knew you, as many on that day, will be saying, but, but, but, I did that, this and the other.
i am seeing motive is the key with humility that God sees and knows. Therefore have referent fear over worldly fear in getting away with using iniquity over glorying in iniquity
God all in all will take care of all righteously so. I can rest in full trust 1 John 4:18-19 God is perfect love and is never pleased in any human flesh work Hebrews 4

No angel needs to have this extra "image of a man" because all angels are men, and look like men because they are men. They are not human men but angelic men, males of the angelic order. I have met one and he looked like all angels that are described in the bible, looked like a human man.

Sorry, I don't do tests to help you be satisfied with my character. If the Scriptures I post is not enough for you, then I suggest conversation about those first instead of just bypassing whatever I post from God's Word.

No such thing as an "extra" image of a man. God simply created Adam with that heavenly image of man that originates from Him and His angels.

The word 'angel' is simply a word that applies to the heavenly image state, a state that those in Christ as the "sons of God" will have in the future adoption...

1 Cor 15:49-50
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

Your whole argument is founded upon the commonly-taught but false premise that there is prophesied to be someone called "the antichrist." But Jesus Himself prophesied otherwise:

Matt. 24:5 “For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,' and will deceive many."

John likewise prophesied otherwise:

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is a last hour; and as you have heard that Antichrist is coming [a rumor, not a prophecy!], even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is a last hour.

This whole End Times "The Antichrist" teaching is a man-made one, not a biblical one.
For more on this, see:

We have both been talking about the verses where a third of the angels were cast out in Rev 12, I have been constantly saying the timing in regard to these verses are talking about when God left heaven to become a man, when he lowered Himself even lower than than the angels. And that the timing of the Lords first advent and the war in heaven was about 2000yrs ago.

Then I constantly have been saying we can read about the results of this in the gospel accounts, if you read Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John even the book of Acts, you can read about these fallen angels.

I have talked about the casting out of the one third angels from heaven with other people before, they don't seem to have a problem with saying how they view things, and how they view the fallen angels in the gospel accounts!

Its not a test, Ive already told you how I view this more than once, You tell me I don't rightly divide scriptures while you rightly divide scriptures.



If your answer is, you don't know exactly know who the fallen angels that are that are in the gospel accounts are, then thats ok, then I'll at least know you don't know, or just tell me who you think they are and where did they come from? Its not a hard question is it?

Hi WilliamL, and welcome to CC.

I must disagree with what you are presenting here, for the following reasons:

-- Jesus is saying (in your verse ^ ) "FOR many...," because in the previous verse He had just spoken of the "individual-person" He's wanting them to be IN PARTICULAR aware of and cautioned about...

... there in the previous verse, He'd said, "tis - G5100 - 'A CERTAIN ONE ['a certain one' BRINGING DECEPTION]' "

...So He's saying beware of "A CERTAIN ONE [bringing deception--at a particular point in time]," FOR MANY shall come [throughout time / history], saying... [...] ; and He wants them to be PARTICULARLY AWARE of "A CERTAIN ONE" (the real AC-individual, who is also "the man of sin" that Paul refers to in 2Th2, which passage points back to Daniel 11:36-37 [& Dan9:27a/26b "THAT SHALL COME/COMING"], etc... and 2Th2:6 says he will be revealed "IN HIS TIME" [a specific time-slot, not throughout history/time though there will be "MANY" throughout time... but it is the PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL that Jesus is warning SPECIFICALLY about, here in this section of His Olivet Discourse])


CONSIDER:

--that the phrase "YE HAVE HEARD" is a phrase used elsewhere that specifically POINTS BACK to subjects having been written already in the OT; for example, this phrase is used several times in: Matthew 5:21, 27, [31,] 33, 38, 43... and note that each of these SUBJECTS (in these verses) can be traced back having been written of in the OT (Jesus is clearing up matters concerning those Subjects [but which others had mangled, twisted, wrangled...])


I disagree.

I do see how others can perhaps THINK such, but it is usually because they've ignored what the "FOR" is there for (in Mt24:5, pointing back to the "A CERTAIN ONE" in the previous verse)... and by disregarding the numerous other "connections" in Scripture (what many call "Scripture interpreting Scripture"), and by not grasping the SEQUENCE / CHRONOLOGY type issues in Scripture (in these related contexts), etc... which is very common.





Hope that helps you see my perspective on this point.

And again, welcome to CC. Hope to see you around the boards.

I read your blog at the other forum which is basically the same as what you wrote here, and even there, no one agrees with you. They all even posted the verses that show that this man will be real.

I don't know how you can miss what is already spelled out in scripture that no one else misses. 🤷


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