Some thought about "Jews"

Yes, just as only a remnant of "Christians" will be saved.

Who are all these people in glory that no man can number? Guess people need a bigger abacus. How many stars are there? How many grains of sand are there? Guess God was just joking with Abraham.

What does this mean?

I hope to address a difficult topic, one that has been mentioned several times on CC. The statement has been made that all Jews are going to burn in hell because they reject Jesus Christ. I have a few thoughts on that topic.

First, being a “Jew” is not monolithic. Just like Christianity there are multiple statements of faith within that group, some biblical and some not. The Natsarim, “Jews” who keep the Torah while accepting Messiah Yeshua, was the very first expression of Christianity. They still exist today. Indeed, Messianic Judaism is alive and well and appears to be a growing movement in Israel, as predicted.

Then, there is the issue of natural law. Biblically, a person who has never heard the word (Jesus) but has the Torah written on his heart and obeys, is redeemed. The “Jews” as a people have pursued the truths of YHWH longer and with more diligence than any other people. The Word is deeply etched in their hearts. Are they really denied salvation?

Next, since the modern church has denied the First Testament, the impression exists that Jesus suddenly appears and quickly changes everything. From this view, it looks like He was inactive in history until the nativity. Even a cursory reading of scripture disproves this assumption. Yeshua, the one appearing as the Son of Man, the Angel of The Lord (YHWH), was continually involved with God’s people throughout history, teaching, encouraging, protecting, growing, and sometimes even punishing his people. To think Jesus suddenly changes direction and now forever curses his people is unimaginable.

I also do not accept the assumption that “Jews” deny Yeshua HaMashiach. His teachings have influenced many “Jewish” thoughts. What many “Jews” do struggle with is the concept that The Messiah appears twice in human history. Indeed, they look forward eagerly to his promised coming. Missing His first coming may be an error on their part, but it is not a rejection of YHWH or Yeshua or their teachings.

There is also an issue about who provides salvation to whom. We know God’s chosen people, the Seed of Abraham, brings salvation to the gentiles. There is also the opposite reaction, salvation of the “Jews” comes in the fullness of the gentiles. An eagerly anticipated future event. Even the Second Testament Disciple; the Patron Saint of the western Christian Church; Paul, makes this perfectly clear:

“Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!
Romans 11:11-12

Revelation 7:9 says there is a number in heaven that no man can number. That sounds like alot of people to me. God's promise to Abraham was that his offspring would be as the stars in the sky and as the grains of sand on the shore. That sounds like alot of people to me as well. Doesn't sound like a remnant to me.

Revelation 7:9 says there is a number in heaven that no man can number. That sounds like alot of people to me. God's promise to Abraham was that his offspring would be as the stars in the sky and as the grains of sand on the shore. That sounds like alot of people to me as well. Doesn't sound like a remnant to me.

Abraham's seed is from all nations.

I agree. But it isn't a remnant.

The 144000 from Israel’s tribes are the remnant , the group your referring to are gentiles and also Jews from every nation and people who came after

“Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.( remnant of ot israel belonging to the law )


After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, ( the gospel covenant preached to all nations ) standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:4, 9‬ ‭NIV‬‬

It is compared to the rest of humanity that doesn't make it

That's just supposition. But the saved of any nation is a remnant of the whole of the redeemed.

“The statement has been made that all Jews are going to burn in hell because they reject Jesus Christ. “


Who said that ? Terrible thing to say

I agree. But it isn't a remnant.

I am not going to point anyone out. I have made other posts supporting those who practice some form of Judaism and got that exact response once and a similar post on another occasion. I have also heard this outside of CC. My concern is that there was no significant challenge to this idea.

Not really. Wide is the gate to destruction and many go that way

Revelation 7:9 says there is a number in heaven that no man can number. That sounds like alot of people to me. God's promise to Abraham was that his offspring would be as the stars in the sky and as the grains of sand on the shore. That sounds like alot of people to me as well. Doesn't sound like a remnant to me.

There was often only a remnant of Israel at any given point, but this doesn't preclude that a large number aren't saved.
The 144,000 is a representative number of Jewish believers in the first century.

The tribes of Israel that survived the slaughter in ad 70 and we’re scattered into the earth are the remnant it’s based upon ot prophecy

“and say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys; Behold, I, even I, will bring a sword upon you, and I will destroy your high places. And your altars shall be desolate, and your images shall be broken: and I will cast down your slain men before your idols. In all your dwellingplaces the cities shall be laid waste, and the high places shall be desolate; that your altars may be laid waste and made desolate, and your idols may be broken and cease, and your images may be cut down, and your works may be abolished.

And the slain shall fall in the midst of you, and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

Yet will I leave a remnant, that ye may have some that shall escape the sword among the nations, when ye shall be scattered through the countries. And they that escape of you shall remember me among the nations whither they shall be carried captives, ( Jewish dispersia by rome after ad 70s destruction of Jerusalem )

because I am broken with their whorish heart, which hath departed from me, and with their eyes, which go a whoring after their idols: and they shall lothe themselves for the evils which they have committed in all their abominations. And they shall know that I am the LORD, and that I have not said in vain that I would do this evil unto them.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭6:3-4, 6-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:20-22, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

in revelation you see the remnant of Jews before you see the gentile crowd

“And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

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“After this ( nt time period when the gospel was sent to all people ) I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The remnant of Israel is from the old covenant doctrine the many nations are from the new it’s why there’s a finite number of them it’s only a remnant of the children of Israel because of the old covenant cirse . The gentile group is innumerable

a lot of the terminology in the nt is established in ot orophecy foretelling the New Testament time period such as “the remnant “ in the ot there’s a whole doctrine regarding a remnant he would spare when he had Jerusalem destroyed for breaking thier covenant

The early church in Jerusalem alone grew 3,000 in 1 day. Then another large group soon after. There was around 40 years between the onset of the church and the destruction of Jerusalem.