Some thought about "Jews"
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Revelation 7:9 says there is a number in heaven that no man can number. That sounds like alot of people to me. God's promise to Abraham was that his offspring would be as the stars in the sky and as the grains of sand on the shore. That sounds like alot of people to me as well. Doesn't sound like a remnant to me.
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The 144000 from Israel’s tribes are the remnant , the group your referring to are gentiles and also Jews from every nation and people who came after
“Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.( remnant of ot israel belonging to the law )
After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, ( the gospel covenant preached to all nations ) standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.”
Revelation 7:4, 9 NIV
“Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.( remnant of ot israel belonging to the law )
After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, ( the gospel covenant preached to all nations ) standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.”
Revelation 7:4, 9 NIV
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I am not going to point anyone out. I have made other posts supporting those who practice some form of Judaism and got that exact response once and a similar post on another occasion. I have also heard this outside of CC. My concern is that there was no significant challenge to this idea.
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The tribes of Israel that survived the slaughter in ad 70 and we’re scattered into the earth are the remnant it’s based upon ot prophecy
“and say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys; Behold, I, even I, will bring a sword upon you, and I will destroy your high places. And your altars shall be desolate, and your images shall be broken: and I will cast down your slain men before your idols. In all your dwellingplaces the cities shall be laid waste, and the high places shall be desolate; that your altars may be laid waste and made desolate, and your idols may be broken and cease, and your images may be cut down, and your works may be abolished.
And the slain shall fall in the midst of you, and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Yet will I leave a remnant, that ye may have some that shall escape the sword among the nations, when ye shall be scattered through the countries. And they that escape of you shall remember me among the nations whither they shall be carried captives, ( Jewish dispersia by rome after ad 70s destruction of Jerusalem )
because I am broken with their whorish heart, which hath departed from me, and with their eyes, which go a whoring after their idols: and they shall lothe themselves for the evils which they have committed in all their abominations. And they shall know that I am the LORD, and that I have not said in vain that I would do this evil unto them.”
Ezekiel 6:3-4, 6-10 KJV
“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”
Luke 21:20-22, 24 KJV
in revelation you see the remnant of Jews before you see the gentile crowd
“And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.”
Revelation 7:4 KJV
“After this ( nt time period when the gospel was sent to all people ) I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;”
Revelation 7:9 KJV
The remnant of Israel is from the old covenant doctrine the many nations are from the new it’s why there’s a finite number of them it’s only a remnant of the children of Israel because of the old covenant cirse . The gentile group is innumerable
a lot of the terminology in the nt is established in ot orophecy foretelling the New Testament time period such as “the remnant “ in the ot there’s a whole doctrine regarding a remnant he would spare when he had Jerusalem destroyed for breaking thier covenant
“and say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys; Behold, I, even I, will bring a sword upon you, and I will destroy your high places. And your altars shall be desolate, and your images shall be broken: and I will cast down your slain men before your idols. In all your dwellingplaces the cities shall be laid waste, and the high places shall be desolate; that your altars may be laid waste and made desolate, and your idols may be broken and cease, and your images may be cut down, and your works may be abolished.
And the slain shall fall in the midst of you, and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Yet will I leave a remnant, that ye may have some that shall escape the sword among the nations, when ye shall be scattered through the countries. And they that escape of you shall remember me among the nations whither they shall be carried captives, ( Jewish dispersia by rome after ad 70s destruction of Jerusalem )
because I am broken with their whorish heart, which hath departed from me, and with their eyes, which go a whoring after their idols: and they shall lothe themselves for the evils which they have committed in all their abominations. And they shall know that I am the LORD, and that I have not said in vain that I would do this evil unto them.”
Ezekiel 6:3-4, 6-10 KJV
“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”
Luke 21:20-22, 24 KJV
in revelation you see the remnant of Jews before you see the gentile crowd
“And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.”
Revelation 7:4 KJV
“After this ( nt time period when the gospel was sent to all people ) I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;”
Revelation 7:9 KJV
The remnant of Israel is from the old covenant doctrine the many nations are from the new it’s why there’s a finite number of them it’s only a remnant of the children of Israel because of the old covenant cirse . The gentile group is innumerable
a lot of the terminology in the nt is established in ot orophecy foretelling the New Testament time period such as “the remnant “ in the ot there’s a whole doctrine regarding a remnant he would spare when he had Jerusalem destroyed for breaking thier covenant
The word there for offspring is “seed”, singular, as revealed to Paul. Christ is the singular seed that was to come. However, as a Life Giving Spirit, Christ contains the whole lot of people who have faith in Christ. This is not unlike a tree containing a whole forest given enough time, or a single head of wheat filling the whole field.
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Even though he says he’s going to destroy many of them ? And spare a remnant and send them out into the world afterwards ?
Brother a Jew is one who adheres to Moses law and is circumcised. Even if one was born in another nation , they could and can convert to Judaism and become a jew.
That wont save anyone to stick with Moses law and reject Christ. But an Israelite can be saved just like anyone all that’s needed for a jew or gentile is to accept the gospel
jews need to accept Christ to be saved just like a gentile but it’s hard for them because they stick with Moses words which is what makes them a Jew
“and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament;
which vail is done away in Christ.
But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.”
2 Corinthians 3:13-16 KJV
A Jew today only needs to do the same thing a gentile needs to do . Before thier covenant ended that’s what the remnant is about bro the destruction of jersualem
it doesn’t mean a jew can’t convert to chrirtianity now though but it then makes them a Christian in Christ there is no jew or gentile there’s only gods children
Brother a Jew is one who adheres to Moses law and is circumcised. Even if one was born in another nation , they could and can convert to Judaism and become a jew.
That wont save anyone to stick with Moses law and reject Christ. But an Israelite can be saved just like anyone all that’s needed for a jew or gentile is to accept the gospel
jews need to accept Christ to be saved just like a gentile but it’s hard for them because they stick with Moses words which is what makes them a Jew
“and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament;
which vail is done away in Christ.
But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.”
2 Corinthians 3:13-16 KJV
A Jew today only needs to do the same thing a gentile needs to do . Before thier covenant ended that’s what the remnant is about bro the destruction of jersualem
it doesn’t mean a jew can’t convert to chrirtianity now though but it then makes them a Christian in Christ there is no jew or gentile there’s only gods children
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Yes exactly because they repented and believed in Jesus got baptized in his name and became Christians
“A Jew “ is someone who adheres to Moses law and adheres to the old covenant word. A Christian is someone who believes the gospel and follows that covenant whether they were a Jew or gentile before
The remnant isn’t about Christianity it’s part of the curse of the law hat he would destroy Jerusalem and the people but he wouldn’t destroy them all . A remnant would survive and be sent out into the world carrying the message of the law of moses to convict the world of sin and the gospel to save souls who repent and believe
the remnant is from the ot is my point it’s not about how many Jews can be saved in the nt it’s about how many Jews would be spared from the destruction of ad 70
anyone can be saved jew or gentile it’s a matter of who believes the gospel not how we identified ourselves before we heard it
“A Jew “ is someone who adheres to Moses law and adheres to the old covenant word. A Christian is someone who believes the gospel and follows that covenant whether they were a Jew or gentile before
The remnant isn’t about Christianity it’s part of the curse of the law hat he would destroy Jerusalem and the people but he wouldn’t destroy them all . A remnant would survive and be sent out into the world carrying the message of the law of moses to convict the world of sin and the gospel to save souls who repent and believe
the remnant is from the ot is my point it’s not about how many Jews can be saved in the nt it’s about how many Jews would be spared from the destruction of ad 70
anyone can be saved jew or gentile it’s a matter of who believes the gospel not how we identified ourselves before we heard it
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