The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation

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GWH

Groovy
#141
Oct 19, 2024
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#141
The topic of baptism is being discussed on another thread, but is also appropriate here in the discussion of key Christian beliefs.

At the moment of repentance/acceptance, God’s Holy Spirit enters their spiritual hearts (RV 3:20), uniting them with God as heavenly Father (RM 8:9) and identifying them with Christ’s worldwide/catholic body or church (CL 1:18). This manifold event is called spiritual birth or baptism (1CR 12:13).

We can infer that this dynamic occurs also for pre-NT believers, because there is no salvation outside of Christ’s ekklesia or church (ACTS 4:12). Partial knowledge of God’s Word will limit ability to cooperate with Him, so there is a need for evangelism or learning the full Gospel (MT 28:18-20, cf. ACTS 18:24-26) as well as for lifelong discipleship or spiritual training (2TM 3:16-17).

Confusion may arise from the fact that in Ephesians 4:5 Paul says there is only one baptism, but elsewhere the NT seems to refer to two types of baptism: one by water and another by the Holy Spirit. In His “Great Commission” Jesus tied saving faith closely to the work of water baptism when He said “Make disciples of all nations, baptizing them” (MT 28:19). Yet, in 1 Corinthians 12:13 Paul wrote that “We were all baptized by one Spirit into one body.”

This suggests again that spirit baptism occurs at the moment of conversion, when the Holy Spirit unites the new saint (saved sinner/soul) with Christ, because “if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.” (RM 8:9) The indwelling of the Holy Spirit may also be called the initial filling by the Holy Spirit, because at the point of confession and conversion a person is cooperating fully with God. (See RM 6:3-7, GL 2:20) The evidence that a person has been baptized by God’s Spirit or included in Christ’s spiritual body is love in its myriad of forms (GL 5:22-23, JN 13:35).

Any confusion is resolved by understanding that the two types of baptism are united if baptism with water is viewed as a symbolic way of portraying baptism by the Holy Spirit. The details for this work are vague, but the mode of immersion best portrays a Believer’s spiritual union with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection to eternal life (CL 2:12, RM 6:4). As a practical matter, a new Believer normally would be baptized by the local congregation of the catholic (worldwide) church in which he/she will want to participate as an acknowledged member. Water baptism symbolizes spiritual baptism.
 
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GWH

Groovy
#142
Oct 19, 2024
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#142
Instead of commanding water baptism for salvation, Paul said in one place (RM 10:9-10) that a convert should confess “with your mouth” in order to be saved, even though elsewhere (EPH 2:8-9) he taught that one is saved by faith and occasionally he administered water baptism, even though it was probably done by his assistants, because that was not the focus of his calling. (Cf. ACTS 18:8, 19:5-7, 1CR 1:13-17)

Both outward confession and water baptism may be seen as works manifesting love for God that every new Believer will want to (but we cannot say “must”) perform as soon as possible following his/her decision to have saving faith (cf. MT 3:13-15, ACTS 2:38). The relationship between Believers/Christians and God may be viewed as having three stages.

The first stage is the moment of conversion or repentance (ACTS 20:21) just mentioned, when a person “plugs in” to the power of God’s Holy Spirit by accepting Christ Jesus as Lord. Because a person’s commitment to Christ is in accordance with God’s perfect will and the response of yielding to His calling (1TM 2:3-4), the moment of spiritual baptism fulfills the command of Ephesians 5:18 to be filled (cooperate fully) with the Spirit. For Christians, this stage occurred in the past historically and grammatically; we were saved when we repented and accepted Christ.

The second stage is spiritual growth, which is also referred to as maturation (EPH 4:13), discipleship (ACTS 14:22) or sanctification (2THS 2:13). Grammatically it is present pro-gressive, and historically it is the process of being saved now.

This stage has two phases: instability and maturity. Although a new Spirit-filled convert has access to all of the power he/she needs for loving like Christ (EPH 3:16-19), no one attains immediate “perfection” by remaining filled with the Holy Spirit forever (PHP 3:12). Instead, the combination of temptations, ignorance and the old selfish nature results in immature saints committing their first post-conversion sin(s). Then he/she no longer is spiritual or filled with the Holy Spirit but rather is acting like unsaved unbelievers (1CR 3:1). This “venial” type of error differs from the “mortal” or damning sin of unbelief or apostasy (rejecting God’s Lordship, cf. JM 1:15).

As soon as a new Christian realizes a sin was committed, he/she should confess it (1JN 1:9) rather than compound it by trying to hide it or cover it up like Adam and Eve did (GN 3:7-8). Then God will forgive, and the saint will again be in a Spirit-filled or spiritual condition. This spiritual flip-flopping might happen once a day, or it could occur several times in an hour. While this instability may be bad, failure to confess promptly is much worse, because it results in chain-sinning or back-sliding. This condition is also referred to as being carnal/worldly (1CR 3:1) or prodigal (LK 15:13) if it continues for weeks or years.
 
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GWH

Groovy
#143
Oct 19, 2024
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#143
Unfortunately, some people may not appreciate the process of being renewed morally or as Paul says (in RM 12:2) of being “transformed by the renewing of your mind”, perhaps because it involves admitting sins or having “guilt trips”. It is not guilt that is bad; rather whatever one is doing that makes one feel guilty.

Guilt is like a warning light on a car’s instrument panel that lets one know something is wrong. Until we have the wisdom to welcome God’s “guilt trips” like we do warning lights, we will never feel the satisfaction of becoming a new and improved version of ourselves. Hopefully, we will never reach the point where we are so callous that we experience no guilt when we do wrong (MT 13:14-15). Warnings are good!

This unstable or immature phase in a Christian’s spiritual relationship with God is followed eventually (and hopefully soon) by a second phase of relative perfection or maturity signified in the Bible (especially the King James Version) by the phrase “walking with God”. Genesis 5:24 describes Enoch as a man who walked with God, and the apostle Paul described the goal of Christians (the fullness of Christ) as walking with God (RM 6:4, GL 5:16, EPH 4:1, 1THS 4:1). Elsewhere the continually (ideally) Spirit-filled condition is referred to as walking: in light (1JN 1:7), in love (EPH 5:2), in a new life (RM 6:4), according to the Spirit (RM 8:4), and in good works (CL 1:10).
 
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GWH

Groovy
#144
Oct 19, 2024
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#144
The outward evidence that someone is Spirit-filled (EPH 5:18) or walking with God is the manifestation of the fruit of the Spirit or fullness of Christ (EPH 3:19, 4:13), which consists of such attributes as those listed in Galatians 5:22-23: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Jesus said “All men will know that you are my disciples if you love one another” (JN13:35), because “love” sums up the moral character of God (1JN 4:7-8).

Someone who does not hunger and thirst after righteousness (MT 5:6) and LGW (PS 119:9) needs to reevaluate the sincerity of his/her profession of faith in the Lord. As Paul says (in 2CR 13:5), “Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith.” The spiritual beauty of God’s truth is as awe-inspiring or attractive as the physical beauty of God’s world for one who has the Spirit/mind of Christ (1CR 2:12-16).

How we become new and improved versions of ourselves is taught in EPH 4:1-16. The key need is to keep on learning God's Word. We see that God’s goal for our faith is attaining Christ-like moral maturity and spiritual unity, so God’s will is resisted or contradicted by people who have a judgmental and divisive spirit rather than God’s loving or Holy Spirit. Jesus warned against this evil spirit early in his ministry (MT 7:1-5&21). Also near the end of his earthly life, Jesus prayed for godly unity (JN 17:20-23). It is up to each of us to cooperate with God in answering this prayer. (Cf. the quest for oneness on the Hermeneutics thread.)
 
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GWH

Groovy
#145
Oct 19, 2024
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#145
Since I am encountering no headwinds on this presentation of spiritual dynamics, I will continue.

The third stage of a Christian’s relationship with God, called glorification (1PT 5:10) or immortality (1CR 15:53), occurs in heaven, when Believers will walk with God perfectly and eternally. Of course, grammatically and historically, this stage is in the future. Somehow, in heaven saints will be both free to sin and free of/from sin, perhaps because they will have perfect memories of the lessons learned in this earthly life (2PT 1:12-15), which will enable them to appreciate the blessings of heaven forever.

Like physical walking, spiritual walking has two steps. Another apt analogy is the act of breathing. The meaning of both analogies is simply communion or communication with God’s Holy Spirit. The first step or inhale is listening to God (LGW), and the second step or exhale is responding to or cooperating with God. God’s message for mankind is revealed partially by the world He has created but more fully by the Scriptures He has inspired. The crux of God’s Word is the Gospel of salvation (kerygma), while the secondary teachings (didache) consist of the manifold applications of the law of love (1JN 3:11, cf. Part I).

The Believer’s main types of responses to God’s Word are prayer to God and good works unto others for God (cf. 1JN 4:20, EPH 2:10). The kerygmatic prayer that is necessary in order for a sinner be saved and walk with God is confession (1JN 1:9, PS 32:1-5). Prayer is simply talking/addressing our thoughts to God. From the moment of repentance onward, whenever a Believer acknowledges to God his/her known sins of immoral attitudes and actions, God forgives all sins (1JN 1:9b). This means he/she is pleasing rather than grieving God or once again is Spirit-filled (walking in the Spirit) and has a right relationship with Christ Jesus (EPH 4:30, 5:10 & 18).
 
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GWH

Groovy
#146
Oct 19, 2024
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#146
Paul exhorted Believers (in EPH 6:18) to pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests, which leads into a discussion of didachaic prayers/thoughts a Believer might address to God after the kerygmatic prayer of repentance. When a Believer confesses sin and is refilled by the Spirit, he/she experiences divine love, joy and peace (GL 5:22-23), which prompts prayers giving thanks. Jesus led a prayer of thanksgiving during the Last Supper (1CR 11:23-24). Paul frequently expressed thankfulness for believers he had helped to convert and who had helped support his ministry (1THS 1:2, PHP 1:3). He instructed Believers to “Pray continually; give thanks in all circumstances.” (1THS 5:17-18)

A type of prayer akin to thanksgiving is praise, which expresses love and glory to God for who He is and what He means to us. Numerous Psalms express this type of prayer, from 9:1-2 to 150:1-6. Hebrews 13:15 says, “Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice [prayer] of praise.” Revelation 5:13 refers to prayers of praise in heaven: “Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth . . . singing: To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”

A fourth kind of prayer is petition, which may be the most used and least understood type. The Lord’s Sample Prayer (MT 6:9-13) has a series of petitions. In Philippians 4:6 Paul taught: “By prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.” A petition in which we ask God for something on behalf of another person is called intercession. Paul frequently prayed for others (EPH 1:16-18, PHP 1:3-4&9, CL 1:3&9), and he asked believers to pray for him (EPH 6:18-20, CL 4:3-4, 1TM 2:1, 2THS 3:1), so perhaps intercession should be our most frequent type of petition (EPH 6:18b).
 
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GWH

Groovy
#147
Oct 19, 2024
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#147
The privilege of petitioning God should not be viewed as a blank check, nor is the primary purpose of prayer to persuade God to do our will like a genie. Rather, in prayer we should express our agreement with the perfect will of God. As 1 John 5:14 says, “if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.”

Although agreement with God is not always mentioned (cf. EPH 3:20, JN 16:23), Jesus exemplified this principle when He prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane (MT 26:36-46). Again, we should approach God’s “throne of grace” (HB 4:16) not to ask Him to do some good He otherwise would not do, but rather to remind ourselves of His presence and that He is the source of all blessings (JM 1:17).

In order to pray in accordance with God’s will, we must know God’s Word (JN 15:7). Like bread and butter or romantic love and spiritual marriage, prayer and LGW go together. Pray for God’s will to be done.

God may answer a petition in various ways: 1. He may grant it as requested (1KG 18:37-39), 2. He may grant the underlying desire in a way different than requested (GN 17:18-19), 3. He may grant the request, but it will not satisfy our desire (NM 11:4-34, PS 106:15), and 4. God may say “no” or “not yet”, perhaps but not necessarily because we are committing some sin, including: a. lack of faith (JM 1:6-8), MT 21:21-22), b. disobedience or lack of love (1JN 3:21-23, PR 21:13, JOB 35:12-13), c. marital strife (1PT 3:7), and d. selfishness (JM 4:3).

Knowing God’s will is necessary in order for us to pray more specifically than “Thy will be done”. Much of God’s will is prescriptive or stated in clear moral teachings such as the Ten Commandments (EX 20:1-17, MT 19:17-21, GL 5:22-23). We may not know how to pray, but we can “live up to what we have already attained” (PHP 3:16). That we pray is more important to God than our wording (EPH 6:18a, 1THS 5:17, RM 8:26-27). Not praying would be like giving God “the silent treatment”.

The power of prayer is God’s, and Believers should not talk as though God would not act if they did not pray! In brief, prayer is like surfing: One does not need to ask God to send waves, but rather for readiness to ride them.
 
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GWH

Groovy
#148
Oct 19, 2024
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#148
The way God has chosen to answer our prayers for the kingdom of heaven to come on earth in our lifetime is for us to partake of the bread of truth (MT 6:10-11, cf. LGW above). We cannot live by physical bread (or prayer) alone; our souls need every word God speaks (MT 4:4). Jesus said that He is God’s way and the word/bread of life (JN 14:6, 6:35&63). He also said, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching.” (JN 14:23) In order to obey, we must learn, even as Jesus did (HB 5:8). This is the reason Believers should attend a local church (fellowship), if possible, where the pastor/lead learner is a good Bible teacher (HB 10:25, RM 10:14). The numerous practical problems we experience in this pre-heavenly life—poverty, war, disease, divorce, crime and so forth—find their solution to the extent that as many people as possible LGW as soon as possible.

We considered prayer in some detail, because it is an integral aspect of spiritual dynamics or how the Spirit of God communes with Believers. The second main type of response by Believers is doing good works, which would lead into discussion of a myriad of moral (didachaic) topics. At this point let us simply say that saints should seek to become morally perfect (MT 5:48) or pure (PHP 1:10& 2:15) or spiritually mature (EPH 4:13, PHP 3:12-15), which means to remain filled by or to be in step with the Holy Spirit (GL 5:25) more and more of the time (PHP 1:9, 1THS 4:1 &10).

Some people wonder whether God’s will includes a specific plan for their lives, including career and spouse. While some Believers may feel called to serve the Lord in a specific way, probably most Christians do not have a “Damascus road experience”, and so they are free to choose whatever morally respectable vocation (1THS 4:11-12) or spiritually compatible spouse (if any, 1CR 7:8-9, 2CR 6:14) appeals to them. Every soul’s general calling has been revealed or taught in the Holy Scriptures, which is to experience the miraculous fullness of Christ or become a Christ-like person (EPH 4:1-2, 2THS 1:11-12).
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#151
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#151
Lamar said:
Are these not simple generalities?
Can such generalities save anyone?

Where is the threshold for saving faith?
Click to expand...
It says God's requirements. This is what God requires to save an individual. Since He provides both, His grace is the only thing necessary for man to experience salvation.
 
Lamar

Lamar

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#152
May 21, 2023
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#152
Cameron143 said:
It says God's requirements. This is what God requires to save an individual. Since He provides both, His grace is the only thing necessary for man to experience salvation.
Click to expand...
Okay... but what about the question? Your comment sounds like a call for universalism.

Is faith needed and if so what is the threshold for salvation?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#153
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#153
Lamar said:
Okay... but what about the question? Your comment sounds like a call for universalism.

Is faith needed and if so what is the threshold for salvation?
Click to expand...
The subject is God's requirements. I gave them and posited that God supplied both the the blood atonement and the requisite righteousness. Having done this, nothing else is required.
What people are discussing are the human responses they believe are necessary for salvation. This has nothing to do with God's requirements.
Anything added to what God has done are therefore simply means God uses to accomplish salvation. Faith is the means by which God makes known to an individual what He has provided for them in Christ.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

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#154
Sep 2, 2020
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Beckworth said:
Psalms 119:160 says that the “SUM” of God’s word is truth. You must accept everything that God says saves us. Most denominations only accept the part that they like, and reject anything else even if God says it. That is a mistake that will cause you to lose your soul. Not only are we not to “ADD” to God’s word, but we are not to TAKE AWAY from what He says either. Deut. 4:2, Proverbs 30:6 and Rev. 22:18-19.

If you want to know God’s truth on what to do to be saved, then here is what God says in His word: Romans 10:17 tells us that faith comes by hearing the WORD OF GOD. THAT is where we start. We don’t wait for the Holy Spirit to “ZAP” us with knowledge. I’m talking about preaching God’s knowledge, Paul said that God put this “treasure” in EARTHEN VESSELS”. 2Corinthians 4:7. The ones who preach and teach God’s word are the earthen vessels who tell us God’s gospel. Matthew 28:18-19. So, being taught or hearing the gospel is the first step, Jesus tells us Himself what to do next—“He that believes and is baptized shall be saved.” FAITH is necessary Hebrews 11:6. We must believe that Jesus is the Son of God. Romans 10:10 gives us another step. “ With the mouth CONFESSION is made unto salvation.” Matt. 10:32 says we MUST confess Jesus (as the son of God). This confession is not confessing our sins but confessing our faith in Jesus as the Son of God. We are taught this in the example of the Ethiopian eunuch innActs 8. He confessed His faith in Christ just before his baptism. Repentance is necessary and should have been put before confession. Acts 2:38 is Peter’s answer to “what shall we do?” He says to REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins. And the last and final step is BAPTISM.

All you have to do to be lost is just leave out one step or one thing that Jesus commanded. AndcSatan has been very successful in deceiving people so that they reject baptism “for the remission of sins “ like Peter said. They reject what Jesus says in Mark 16:16–that baptism comes BEFORE salvation. They refuse to believe what Peter says in 1 Peter 3:21 that BAPTISM SAVES US. Remember Rev. 22:18-19. They have “TAKEN AWAY” baptism as necessary to salvation when God has clearly put it there. Remember we are to PUT IT ALL TOGETHER and take the SUM of everything God has said. Only then do we have the “TRUTH.”

Prove this to yourself. Look at every conversion in the book of Acts and just see how people in the 1st century were saved. Not every step was mentioned in each example but in EVERY CASE everyone of them was baptized! (Acts 2, 8, 9, 10, 16, 22.).

God says you are NOT SAVED BY FAITH ONLY. James 2:24. No one is denying that faith is necessary—but God says there is more than that. If you only believe, you have left out all of the scriptures and commands on repentance, confession and baptism. You will come up short on Judgement day. Make sure you know all that God says to do—and then do it.
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right

“faith comes by hearing the WORD OF GOD. “

“But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:35‬ ‭

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-

“Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When we actually begin to listen to Jesus words and sayings and teachings it teaches us what Paul’s talking about here

“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; ( repentance )

and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; ( believe the gospel and it will change your understanding and belief of God ourselves eternal life )

and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.” ( he teaches us in the gospel to walk after him follow obey the lord )
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s all about hearing and believing Jesus and the gospel that promises salvstion to everyone that believes the true gospel including his word
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

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#155
Cameron143 said:
The subject is God's requirements. I gave them and posited that God supplied both the the blood atonement and the requisite righteousness. Having done this, nothing else is required.
What people are discussing are the human responses they believe are necessary for salvation. This has nothing to do with God's requirements.
Anything added to what God has done are therefore simply means God uses to accomplish salvation. Faith is the means by which God makes known to an individual what He has provided for them in Christ.
Click to expand...
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

isn’t that the requirement to be saved ?
 
Lamar

Lamar

Active member
#156
May 21, 2023
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#156
Cameron143 said:
The subject is God's requirements. I gave them and posited that God supplied both the the blood atonement and the requisite righteousness. Having done this, nothing else is required.
What people are discussing are the human responses they believe are necessary for salvation. This has nothing to do with God's requirements.
Anything added to what God has done are therefore simply means God uses to accomplish salvation. Faith is the means by which God makes known to an individual what He has provided for them in Christ.
Click to expand...
This is the OP:

What is God's requirement for salvation (GRFS)?

Are you implying that God has no requirements from mankind?

Be honest, are you pushing universalism?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#157
Pilgrimshope said:
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

isn’t that the requirement to be saved ?
Click to expand...
The proliferation of the gospel is one of the means God uses to bring about salvation. This is the usual means that God employs. But not necessary for God to save someone.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#158
Lamar said:
This is the OP:

What is God's requirement for salvation (GRFS)?

Are you implying that God has no requirements from mankind?

Be honest, are you pushing universalism?
Click to expand...
I don't believe in universalism. All that is required for someone to be saved is a blood atonement made and a perfect righteousness gained. God, in Christ, has provided all that is necessary for someone to be saved. Jesus lived a perfect life to provide the necessary righteousness. And He shed His blood on the cross as a propitiation to assuage God's anger against sin.
This frees God to redeem mankind. Without these 2 things, no one could be saved.
 
Lamar

Lamar

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May 21, 2023
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#159
Cameron143 said:
I don't believe in universalism. All that is required for someone to be saved is a blood atonement made and a perfect righteousness gained. God, in Christ, has provided all that is necessary for someone to be saved. Jesus lived a perfect life to provide the necessary righteousness. And He shed His blood on the cross as a propitiation to assuage God's anger against sin.
This frees God to redeem mankind. Without these 2 things, no one could be saved.
Click to expand...
And how does your belief differ from universalism?
 
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