Spiritual Covering

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ValleyAnt

ValleyAnt

Active member
#1
Nov 14, 2024
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Kansas
#1
I'm on my way to bed and just wanted to shoot this off so I don't forget it later. In other words, it won't be long. I might add to it some other time.

I don't like the word 'doctrine'. It sounds dead, irrelevant, obsolete, and unrelatable in our modern and post-modern world. But it's still a word so I'll use it.

There are biblical and relevant doctrines of 'spiritual covering'. There are also unbiblical teachings and doctrines of the same. Many people have misused the doctrine and harmed others along the way. An example of the misuse of this doctrine was the Shepherding/Discipleship Movement which was meant to address immaturity in the churches but ended up dominating and suffocating the people it was supposed to help into maturity.

Like other relevant doctrines that many christians have abandoned due to their misuses and abuses, many christians don't believe that spiritual covering is biblical or relevant. But everything that God created is good when done healthily. In the Godhead, you can see the principle of spiritual covering. The Bible also says that God covers Jesus who then covers a husband who then covers his wife. The Bible, both OT and NT, allude to and reference spiritual covering often. So, according to the Bible, what is spiritual covering and why is it important? Allude.

There have to be a bunch of answers to that question. For now, I'll only say that:

1. Spiritual covering isn't your pastor, minister, or someone else who calls themselves your covering. It isn't a label; it is an actual and literal function that has actual effects-- good or bad-- in a person's life.

2. Spiritual covering is anyone who [passively] has responsibility for or [actively, intentionally] takes responsibility for another person.

The a.) person who even against their will is given responsibility for someone else and the b.) person who willingly takes responsibility for someone else are both recognized-- at least in the spirit realm where they see things as they in fact are-- as that person's spiritual covering. They don't have to know it and they don't have to know that it makes any difference or how it works. It just happens as soon as the exchange or agreement happens and as long as it continues.

One of the reasons biblical and legitimate spiritual covering is important to the believer and among believers is because of a.) the many blessings and b.) the increased protection from harm that are available under spiritual covering that are not available without it. Anyone who has some insight or opinions on this topic feel free to chime in.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#2
Apr 21, 2021
8,318
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#2
ValleyAnt said:
I'm on my way to bed and just wanted to shoot this off so I don't forget it later. In other words, it won't be long. I might add to it some other time.

I don't like the word 'doctrine'. It sounds dead, irrelevant, obsolete, and unrelatable in our modern and post-modern world. But it's still a word so I'll use it.

There are biblical and relevant doctrines of 'spiritual covering'. There are also unbiblical teachings and doctrines of the same. Many people have misused the doctrine and harmed others along the way. An example of the misuse of this doctrine was the Shepherding/Discipleship Movement which was meant to address immaturity in the churches but ended up dominating and suffocating the people it was supposed to help into maturity.

Like other relevant doctrines that many christians have abandoned due to their misuses and abuses, many christians don't believe that spiritual covering is biblical or relevant. But everything that God created is good when done healthily. In the Godhead, you can see the principle of spiritual covering. The Bible also says that God covers Jesus who then covers a husband who then covers his wife. The Bible, both OT and NT, allude to and reference spiritual covering often. So, according to the Bible, what is spiritual covering and why is it important? Allude.

There have to be a bunch of answers to that question. For now, I'll only say that:

1. Spiritual covering isn't your pastor, minister, or someone else who calls themselves your covering. It isn't a label; it is an actual and literal function that has actual effects-- good or bad-- in a person's life.

2. Spiritual covering is anyone who [passively] has responsibility for or [actively, intentionally] takes responsibility for another person.

The a.) person who even against their will is given responsibility for someone else and the b.) person who willingly takes responsibility for someone else are both recognized-- at least in the spirit realm where they see things as they in fact are-- as that person's spiritual covering. They don't have to know it and they don't have to know that it makes any difference or how it works. It just happens as soon as the exchange or agreement happens and as long as it continues.

One of the reasons biblical and legitimate spiritual covering is important to the believer and among believers is because of a.) the many blessings and b.) the increased protection from harm that are available under spiritual covering that are not available without it. Anyone who has some insight or opinions on this topic feel free to chime in.
Click to expand...
I know you mentioned the Shepherding/Discipleship movement, but do you see legitimate discipleship as any different than covering? If so, how? What teaching from scripture do you base it on?
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#3
Oct 24, 2012
16,557
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#3
ValleyAnt said:
I'm on my way to bed and just wanted to shoot this off so I don't forget it later. In other words, it won't be long. I might add to it some other time.

I don't like the word 'doctrine'. It sounds dead, irrelevant, obsolete, and unrelatable in our modern and post-modern world. But it's still a word so I'll use it.

There are biblical and relevant doctrines of 'spiritual covering'. There are also unbiblical teachings and doctrines of the same. Many people have misused the doctrine and harmed others along the way. An example of the misuse of this doctrine was the Shepherding/Discipleship Movement which was meant to address immaturity in the churches but ended up dominating and suffocating the people it was supposed to help into maturity.

Like other relevant doctrines that many christians have abandoned due to their misuses and abuses, many christians don't believe that spiritual covering is biblical or relevant. But everything that God created is good when done healthily. In the Godhead, you can see the principle of spiritual covering. The Bible also says that God covers Jesus who then covers a husband who then covers his wife. The Bible, both OT and NT, allude to and reference spiritual covering often. So, according to the Bible, what is spiritual covering and why is it important? Allude.

There have to be a bunch of answers to that question. For now, I'll only say that:

1. Spiritual covering isn't your pastor, minister, or someone else who calls themselves your covering. It isn't a label; it is an actual and literal function that has actual effects-- good or bad-- in a person's life.

2. Spiritual covering is anyone who [passively] has responsibility for or [actively, intentionally] takes responsibility for another person.

The a.) person who even against their will is given responsibility for someone else and the b.) person who willingly takes responsibility for someone else are both recognized-- at least in the spirit realm where they see things as they in fact are-- as that person's spiritual covering. They don't have to know it and they don't have to know that it makes any difference or how it works. It just happens as soon as the exchange or agreement happens and as long as it continues.

One of the reasons biblical and legitimate spiritual covering is important to the believer and among believers is because of a.) the many blessings and b.) the increased protection from harm that are available under spiritual covering that are not available without it. Anyone who has some insight or opinions on this topic feel free to chime in.
Click to expand...
1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

man flesh continues to try to produce fear in anyone to control them and calls it doctrine

the only doctrine is, Jesus Christ crucified we are forgiven (reconciled) by the death alone, everyone id reconciled by the death alone. Not yet saved!
The salvation is in the risen Christ, given to see it and be it by God Father for them, those that will not abuse or misuse it for any self gain at all.

Hebrews 13:9
Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

1 Corinthians 14:6
Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

1 Corinthians 14:26
How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

Mark 1:22
And they were astonished at his doctrine: for he taught them as one that had authority, and not as the scribes.

He is today and forever risen and wants to do the teaching are you willing?

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

  1. John 2:22
    When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  2. John 21:14
    This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead.

Being risen is where the new life for each child is given is in the risen
for the death has passed and he Jesus fulfilled the Law and prophets about him coming to earth through woman to reconcile us all first, before any new life could ever be given to each person personally first. Then each in continued belief, no matter what troubles happen to them or not, matters not. These get taught new in love and mercy to all as is done now forever once for all by Son first (Heb 10:10) on that cross for us all to be saved in trust to God free of charge ever. God installs the new life in us to love as God loves as in 1 Cor 13:4-7, to me at least, thank you, this is the only Doctrine to me I see

1 Corinthians 3

Authorized (King James) Version

And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building.

Now see Hebrews 5:12 - Chapter 6 ask God to permit you to grow up in maturity, thanking God all in all form it all as a gift, not as a work from us ever, since no flesh but Son's could ever please Father to begin with, at least this is how I now see it, thanks
 
JohnRH

JohnRH

Junior Member
#4
Mar 5, 2018
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#4
ValleyAnt said:
I'm on my way to bed and just wanted to shoot this off so I don't forget it later. In other words, it won't be long. I might add to it some other time.

I don't like the word 'doctrine'. It sounds dead, irrelevant, obsolete, and unrelatable in our modern and post-modern world. But it's still a word so I'll use it.

There are biblical and relevant doctrines of 'spiritual covering'. There are also unbiblical teachings and doctrines of the same. Many people have misused the doctrine and harmed others along the way. An example of the misuse of this doctrine was the Shepherding/Discipleship Movement which was meant to address immaturity in the churches but ended up dominating and suffocating the people it was supposed to help into maturity.

Like other relevant doctrines that many christians have abandoned due to their misuses and abuses, many christians don't believe that spiritual covering is biblical or relevant. But everything that God created is good when done healthily. In the Godhead, you can see the principle of spiritual covering. The Bible also says that God covers Jesus who then covers a husband who then covers his wife. The Bible, both OT and NT, allude to and reference spiritual covering often. So, according to the Bible, what is spiritual covering and why is it important? Allude.

There have to be a bunch of answers to that question. For now, I'll only say that:

1. Spiritual covering isn't your pastor, minister, or someone else who calls themselves your covering. It isn't a label; it is an actual and literal function that has actual effects-- good or bad-- in a person's life.

2. Spiritual covering is anyone who [passively] has responsibility for or [actively, intentionally] takes responsibility for another person.

The a.) person who even against their will is given responsibility for someone else and the b.) person who willingly takes responsibility for someone else are both recognized-- at least in the spirit realm where they see things as they in fact are-- as that person's spiritual covering. They don't have to know it and they don't have to know that it makes any difference or how it works. It just happens as soon as the exchange or agreement happens and as long as it continues.

One of the reasons biblical and legitimate spiritual covering is important to the believer and among believers is because of a.) the many blessings and b.) the increased protection from harm that are available under spiritual covering that are not available without it. Anyone who has some insight or opinions on this topic feel free to chime in.
Click to expand...
I don't know what you mean by 'covering'. Can you post some Scripture passages that mention it?
You seem to have alluded to this passage:
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 1 Cor 11:3 (KJV)
But that's about headship, not covering.
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#5
Oct 24, 2012
16,557
497
83
#5
JohnRH said:
I don't know what you mean by 'covering'. Can you post some Scripture passages that mention it?
You seem to have alluded to this passage:
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 1 Cor 11:3 (KJV)
But that's about headship, not covering.
Click to expand...
covering (protection)
Malachi 2:13-16
And this have ye done again, covering the altar of the Lord with tears, with weeping, and with crying out, insomuch that he regardeth not the offering any more, or receiveth it with good will at your hand. Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the Lord hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant. And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth. ...

Job 1:9
Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
Job 1:10
Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
Job 1:11
But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

God then removes God's covering to prove Job will not deny God. I bet God has faith in us his creation you think?
Therefore, troubles will come won't they, don't they, and might be why we are to praise God in all things, good or bad that happens to us to now be willing to learn from you think?
I think, thank you Father
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#6
Jun 30, 2015
25,491
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#6
ValleyAnt said:
The a.) person who even against their will is given responsibility for someone else and the b.) person who willingly takes responsibility for someone else are both recognized-- at least in the spirit realm where they see things as they in fact are-- as that person's spiritual covering. They don't have to know it and they don't have to know that it makes any difference or how it works. It just happens as soon as the exchange or agreement happens and as long as it continues.
Click to expand...
Do you have any Scripture to support these ideas?

ValleyAnt said:
One of the reasons biblical and legitimate spiritual covering is important to the believer and among believers is because of a.) the many blessings and b.) the increased protection from harm that are available under spiritual covering that are not available without it.
Click to expand...
Again, what Scripture supports these claims?
 
studentoftheword

studentoftheword

Well-known member
#7
Nov 12, 2021
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#7
Worth the read folks ------one needs to always research when people come up with these controversial Biblical ideas ----

Does a person / ministry need a spiritual covering?
https://www.gotquestions.org/spiritual-covering.html

The term spiritual covering is usually used in the context of the Shepherding Movement, though it can have other meanings. In its primary context, having a spiritual covering means being submitted to the authority of another Christian believer. The concept is taken to mean that, for a person’s spiritual life and/or ministry to be valid in the eyes of God, the person or ministry must be under direct submission to a specific person. This might be an elder or pastor of a church, an older or more mature Christian, or some other authority figure. The idea that a “spiritual covering” is required was initially developed within the Charismatic movement. Today, it is sometimes associated with the New Apostolic Reformation and the Hebrew Roots movement.

According to the teaching of spiritual covering, Christians are not only accountable to God but also to their leaders and elders. For biblical backing, supporters of spiritual covering cite verses such as Ephesians 5:2, 1 Thessalonians 5:12–13, 1 Corinthians 11:2–16, and 1 Peter 5:5. In practice, the concept of spiritual covering makes an earthly authority figure an intercessor or a substitute for God in the life of the person or ministry that has the “covering.” This has led some Christians to consult their designated “shepherd” prior to making career or family decisions. In some cases, professing Christians have claimed that, given an apparent choice between obeying God or their shepherd, they would obey their earthly shepherd.

Naturally, this idea is not without controversy within Christianity. The teaching of spiritual covering has been the cause of various levels of authoritarian abuse.
Several early proponents of the spiritual covering concept, such as Bob Mumford and Charles Simpson, have since distanced themselves from it and apologized for being involved. Of course, it is not wrong to submit to the authority of a pastor and follow his lead; however, with the “spiritual covering” concept, some groups have taken the basic structure of church authority and moved it far beyond biblical precepts.

Biblically, each person is ultimately accountable only to God (Romans 3:19; Matthew 12:36), not to any other person. Consulting with others for guidance (Proverbs 11:14) and being humble enough to learn from the wisdom of others (Proverbs 5:11–14) are commendable. Our approval comes from God, not men (2 Timothy 2:15). No person, strictly speaking, has the absolute right to declare our service to God valid or invalid (Romans 14:4). Mandating a human shepherd for our spiritual lives not only obscures our relationship to Christ (1 Timothy 2:5), but it can lead to division within the church (1 Corinthians 3:4–9). Jesus, in fact, speaks against excessive earthly authority in Matthew 20:25–28.

Submission to the will of God is necessary for all people and for any activity that claims to be a “ministry.” Respect for authority (Romans 13:1), mutual submission (Ephesians 5:21), and cooperation between believers (John 13:34) are commanded in the Bible. And relying on the experience and wisdom of others is a matter of common sense. However, there is no biblically valid mandate for a “spiritual covering” under a particular person in order for our efforts to be legitimate.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#8
Jun 30, 2015
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#8
I suspect the idea of "covering" comes from legitimate response to people operating without any accountability, reasonable interpretation of certain OT passages, and some misinterpretation of certain NT passages.

Under the OT Law, children, and older unmarried daughters, were under the care and "control" of their fathers. Once married, they came under the care and "control" of their husbands. I put "control" in quotes because it's the right word but our modern concept is negative, whereas the OT law was not intended to be.

In the NT, teachers are warned that they will give an account for what they teach, and (in the example of Peter) pastors are told to watch over and care for their people. Those who want to give a good account want others to act in such ways that giving a good account is possible. The responsibility is passed along like a hot potato.

Mix these together with a bit of carnal arrogance and you have a recipe for an authoritarian movement.
 
ValleyAnt

ValleyAnt

Active member
#9
Nov 14, 2024
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#9
ResidentAlien said:
I know you mentioned the Shepherding/Discipleship movement, but do you see legitimate discipleship as any different than covering? If so, how? What teaching from scripture do you base it on?
Click to expand...
It's hard to define spiritual things in human language. This is why there is and can be no perfect Bible translation. Many truths about God, His Word, and His ways you have to receive by revelation which means by the Holy Spirit Himself defining, translating, and interpreting to you what you are reading. The topic of spiritual covering is one of those topics.

When a topic or issue requires the Holy Spirit to explain or reveal it and that doesn't happen, we are left in the dark and therefore consider the issue or topic to be irrelevant or false when the actual problem is that we only have our own individual (your) and corporate (culture) mind to draw understanding from. The Bible calls this mind 'the carnal mind'. It is a part inside everyone, christian and non, that is unsaved and that therefore thinks, feels, and believes the same across the globe making christians and non-christians the same when both live life or view things from their carnal mind. The Bible also calls this 'the carnal man' or the unsaved aspect of a person-- in christians a part of you and in non-christians all of you. Both sides have the same carnal man; christians are not automatically given the ability to understand God, His Word, and His ways; they must battle their own carnal man/mind, otherwise it will separate them from God as far as understanding and knowing Him just as it does non-christians.

"We [believers] have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we may know the things that have been freely given to us by God. These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural (carnal, earthly, original) man does not receive (understand) the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness (stupid) to him; nor can he know (understand, accept, approve) them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1Cor. 2).

The believer receives the Holy Spirit but still has the carnal/natural man in him just as the non-believer does. When the believer does not submit to and depend on the Holy Spirit for wisdom, knowledge, understanding, guidance, faith, love, powers, etc., he is back in his carnal or natural man/mind/nature and becomes as useless, spiritually, as the non-believer or the man who is unsaved.

The Bible is replete with truths, realities, principles, laws of spiritual covering. In fact, these truths are seen also in the natural world and not just the spiritual. (Eg. there are many types of natural coverings, and sometimes things that are not originally made to be coverings can be used as coverings in the natural. This is also true in the spiritual.) But the man-- christian or non-- who does not look at the Bible and God's ways through spiritual eyes will miss the forest for the trees; he will not even be able to make sense of spiritual realities in the natural. When Jesus spoke to Nicodemus about being born again and Nicodemus didn't have even a small understanding about the topic, Jesus was surprised and said to him, "Are you Israel's teacher and still do not know these things?... If I have spoken to you about natural things and you don't understand, how will you understand when I speak to you about spiritual things?" (Jn. 3.) No one can know God or understand His Word or ways or will without God Himself (the Holy Spirit) making God and those things known to them. This applies to christians today as it did to the religious of Jesus's day who, though they knew the Bible of their time better than anyone else-- the Bible which testified about Jesus many times, they still were unable to discern Jesus when He arrived because they depended on their carnal logic (ie. their individual and collective/cultural beliefs) and did not instead depend on the Holy Spirit for revelation about God/Jesus, God's Word, and God's ways.

All that to say that the topic of spiritual covering is too vast to grasp with the human mind and must be revealed by the Holy Spirit. This is also true about the topic of spiritual authority and most of the topics in the Bible. The Bible is written in such a way as to thwart the understanding of God's enemies and those who aren't serious about walking with God. This is true of both evil spirits and of human beings. lucifer is very intelligent and knew that Jesus's death (and resurrection) would be the end for lucifer... and yet, because lucifer did not have or depend on the Holy Spirit (as he couldn't), he was unable to clearly see what was clearly before him. This is what Paul means here:

"We speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory." (1Cor. 2.)

To understand the Bible, you have to be spiritually-minded or spiritual. lucifer is smarter than all of us combined and still doesn't understand the Bible. God's language is different from ours. I know it is written in our language on pages but that's so we have a place to start growing to know God. No one understands the Bible because they received Jesus or were baptized or are christian. The Holy Spirit speaks God's language and we don't. Therefore, if the Holy Spirit is in us, only He can interpret God's language to us from within... but that only happens if we come to depend on Him and learn to rely on Him to give us knowledge, understanding, and wisdom. If we don't depend on Him and fancy that we know it, understand it, and get it, then we never will know, understand, or get anything really. This isn't a salvation issue; it's a spiritual growth or maturity issue. That's why the Bible uses the terms 'mature' and 'spiritual' for the exact same type of believer:

1. Mature (spiritual):"We speak wisdom among those who are mature" (1Cor. 2:6). This means, "Only the mature (spiritual) understand what we speak."

2. Spiritual (mature): "If a [person] is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness" (Gal. 6:1). The believer in sin should be restored only by the spiritual because only spiritual believers have access to God's mind and therefore can receive the revelation (or insight) in how to restore a sinning believer (because believers who don't have access to God's mind cannot know what He wants, how He feels, or His will regarding specifics (not regarding His overall will that is plainly stated in the Bible for anyone to read)).

In the above two passages you see "those who are mature" and "you who are spiritual". Paul is talking to a church group in both letters, but he clearly delineates to both groups that there are some who are mature/spiritual among those who are not mature/spiritual. Paul calls them out and says, "They understand spiritual things, and they understand God's mind and heart." So, the concise way to respond to this and several other comments is this: in order to learn about or understand the reality of spiritual covering, you have no choice but to ask God directly to give you revelation about it. I cannot write enough books to give you understanding about it. God has hidden the understanding of it (and of many other things) in Himself, and His children are to go to Him to receive from Him. It's called a relationship: communication is the primary thing in any relationship.
 
ValleyAnt

ValleyAnt

Active member
#10
Nov 14, 2024
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#10
Dino246 said:
I suspect the idea of "covering" comes from legitimate response to people operating without any accountability, reasonable interpretation of certain OT passages, and some misinterpretation of certain NT passages.
Click to expand...
Don't worry about what people do and say. Be concerned with what God says is in fact true. Read my response to ResidentAlien and ask God in prayer and seeking about the topic. Everyone has an opinion on everything. The best way forward is to go directly to the source and tell Him to delineate clearly for you what's true and what isn't. He specializes in those things.
 
ValleyAnt

ValleyAnt

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#11
Nov 14, 2024
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#11
Dino246 said:
In the NT, teachers are warned that they will give an account for what they teach, and (in the example of Peter) pastors are told to watch over and care for their people. Those who want to give a good account want others to act in such ways that giving a good account is possible. The responsibility is passed along like a hot potato.

Mix these together with a bit of carnal arrogance and you have a recipe for an authoritarian movement.
Click to expand...
If your focus is on what people do, say, and think, you will never be able to see what God is doing, saying, and thinking. Go to Him in prayer and ask until you receive. James said, "If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God who gives [wisdom] liberally without finding fault, and it will be given to him" (James 1:5).

That isn't a blank check to ask God for anything; it is a blank check to ask God for wisdom. God is not always willing to give everything, but He is always willing to give wisdom because wisdom is what brings people closer to God to know Him. That is why that verse is the only one like it and why it specifically is about wisdom. If you ask God about this topic, you won't have to ask anyone else or depend on the misuses of 'spiritual covering'.

Derek Prince was one of the proponents of the Shepherding Movement. He fell into error with the rest of them, but he came out of and left it behind. Prince also used to be convinced that christians can't have demons until his pastor friend's daughter manifested demons during a sermon and, after casting out the demons, Prince went to seek and ask God whether or not christians can have demons. Whether or not people handle the truth correctly, it says nothing about the truth. Go ask God about spiritual covering and forget what others say about it. After all, you wouldn't deny that trash can lids are made to 'cover' trash cans just because you saw a bunch of people using trash can lids on social media for some other purpose. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Do the hard work of seeking God to reveal things to you rather than running on what a thousand people said.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#12
Apr 21, 2021
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#12
ValleyAnt said:
It's hard to define spiritual things in human language. This is why there is and can be no perfect Bible translation. Many truths about God, His Word, and His ways you have to receive by revelation which means by the Holy Spirit Himself defining, translating, and interpreting to you what you are reading. The topic of spiritual covering is one of those topics.

When a topic or issue requires the Holy Spirit to explain or reveal it and that doesn't happen, we are left in the dark and therefore consider the issue or topic to be irrelevant or false when the actual problem is that we only have our own individual (your) and corporate (culture) mind to draw understanding from. The Bible calls this mind 'the carnal mind'. It is a part inside everyone, christian and non, that is unsaved and that therefore thinks, feels, and believes the same across the globe making christians and non-christians the same when both live life or view things from their carnal mind. The Bible also calls this 'the carnal man' or the unsaved aspect of a person-- in christians a part of you and in non-christians all of you. Both sides have the same carnal man; christians are not automatically given the ability to understand God, His Word, and His ways; they must battle their own carnal man/mind, otherwise it will separate them from God as far as understanding and knowing Him just as it does non-christians.

"We [believers] have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we may know the things that have been freely given to us by God. These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural (carnal, earthly, original) man does not receive (understand) the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness (stupid) to him; nor can he know (understand, accept, approve) them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1Cor. 2).

The believer receives the Holy Spirit but still has the carnal/natural man in him just as the non-believer does. When the believer does not submit to and depend on the Holy Spirit for wisdom, knowledge, understanding, guidance, faith, love, powers, etc., he is back in his carnal or natural man/mind/nature and becomes as useless, spiritually, as the non-believer or the man who is unsaved.

The Bible is replete with truths, realities, principles, laws of spiritual covering. In fact, these truths are seen also in the natural world and not just the spiritual. (Eg. there are many types of natural coverings, and sometimes things that are not originally made to be coverings can be used as coverings in the natural. This is also true in the spiritual.) But the man-- christian or non-- who does not look at the Bible and God's ways through spiritual eyes will miss the forest for the trees; he will not even be able to make sense of spiritual realities in the natural. When Jesus spoke to Nicodemus about being born again and Nicodemus didn't have even a small understanding about the topic, Jesus was surprised and said to him, "Are you Israel's teacher and still do not know these things?... If I have spoken to you about natural things and you don't understand, how will you understand when I speak to you about spiritual things?" (Jn. 3.) No one can know God or understand His Word or ways or will without God Himself (the Holy Spirit) making God and those things known to them. This applies to christians today as it did to the religious of Jesus's day who, though they knew the Bible of their time better than anyone else-- the Bible which testified about Jesus many times, they still were unable to discern Jesus when He arrived because they depended on their carnal logic (ie. their individual and collective/cultural beliefs) and did not instead depend on the Holy Spirit for revelation about God/Jesus, God's Word, and God's ways.

All that to say that the topic of spiritual covering is too vast to grasp with the human mind and must be revealed by the Holy Spirit. This is also true about the topic of spiritual authority and most of the topics in the Bible. The Bible is written in such a way as to thwart the understanding of God's enemies and those who aren't serious about walking with God. This is true of both evil spirits and of human beings. lucifer is very intelligent and knew that Jesus's death (and resurrection) would be the end for lucifer... and yet, because lucifer did not have or depend on the Holy Spirit (as he couldn't), he was unable to clearly see what was clearly before him. This is what Paul means here:

"We speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory." (1Cor. 2.)

To understand the Bible, you have to be spiritually-minded or spiritual. lucifer is smarter than all of us combined and still doesn't understand the Bible. God's language is different from ours. I know it is written in our language on pages but that's so we have a place to start growing to know God. No one understands the Bible because they received Jesus or were baptized or are christian. The Holy Spirit speaks God's language and we don't. Therefore, if the Holy Spirit is in us, only He can interpret God's language to us from within... but that only happens if we come to depend on Him and learn to rely on Him to give us knowledge, understanding, and wisdom. If we don't depend on Him and fancy that we know it, understand it, and get it, then we never will know, understand, or get anything really. This isn't a salvation issue; it's a spiritual growth or maturity issue. That's why the Bible uses the terms 'mature' and 'spiritual' for the exact same type of believer:

1. Mature (spiritual):"We speak wisdom among those who are mature" (1Cor. 2:6). This means, "Only the mature (spiritual) understand what we speak."

2. Spiritual (mature): "If a [person] is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness" (Gal. 6:1). The believer in sin should be restored only by the spiritual because only spiritual believers have access to God's mind and therefore can receive the revelation (or insight) in how to restore a sinning believer (because believers who don't have access to God's mind cannot know what He wants, how He feels, or His will regarding specifics (not regarding His overall will that is plainly stated in the Bible for anyone to read)).

In the above two passages you see "those who are mature" and "you who are spiritual". Paul is talking to a church group in both letters, but he clearly delineates to both groups that there are some who are mature/spiritual among those who are not mature/spiritual. Paul calls them out and says, "They understand spiritual things, and they understand God's mind and heart." So, the concise way to respond to this and several other comments is this: in order to learn about or understand the reality of spiritual covering, you have no choice but to ask God directly to give you revelation about it. I cannot write enough books to give you understanding about it. God has hidden the understanding of it (and of many other things) in Himself, and His children are to go to Him to receive from Him. It's called a relationship: communication is the primary thing in any relationship.
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That sounds about right.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

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Silly me. Here I am thinking this was gonna be about the covering of ones head.

1 Corinthians, Chapter 11:

4Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

5But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

6For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

This passage is often stated, but reading fully, this one verse seems lost in any discussion:

15But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

Anyhoo, this idea that Doctrine is a bad thing is against Scripture in every way IMO. I'm not a big fan of these various movements such as Spiritual covering or some such.
 
Dino246

Dino246

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ValleyAnt said:
If your focus is on what people do, say, and think, you will never be able to see what God is doing, saying, and thinking. Go to Him in prayer and ask until you receive. James said, "If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God who gives [wisdom] liberally without finding fault, and it will be given to him" (James 1:5).

That isn't a blank check to ask God for anything; it is a blank check to ask God for wisdom. God is not always willing to give everything, but He is always willing to give wisdom because wisdom is what brings people closer to God to know Him. That is why that verse is the only one like it and why it specifically is about wisdom. If you ask God about this topic, you won't have to ask anyone else or depend on the misuses of 'spiritual covering'.

Derek Prince was one of the proponents of the Shepherding Movement. He fell into error with the rest of them, but he came out of and left it behind. Prince also used to be convinced that christians can't have demons until his pastor friend's daughter manifested demons during a sermon and, after casting out the demons, Prince went to seek and ask God whether or not christians can have demons. Whether or not people handle the truth correctly, it says nothing about the truth. Go ask God about spiritual covering and forget what others say about it. After all, you wouldn't deny that trash can lids are made to 'cover' trash cans just because you saw a bunch of people using trash can lids on social media for some other purpose. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Do the hard work of seeking God to reveal things to you rather than running on what a thousand people said.
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Kindly don't assume the absence of my full dissertation on the subject means that I am needing or seeking instruction. ;)
 
C

ChristRoseFromTheDead

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ValleyAnt said:
The summary is this: having and understanding spiritual covering and its benefits is important for everyone, especially for believers.
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That really doesn't clarify exactly what it is, or it's practical working. In other words, this is how it works and these are the benefits it provides
 
Dino246

Dino246

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ValleyAnt said:
The summary is this: having and understanding spiritual covering and its benefits is important for everyone, especially for believers.
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This is still somewhat obtuse. Non-believers don't have any spiritual covering (in the protective sense), and believers are covered by Jesus Christ. Further, non-believers likely wouldn't care to understand it. Aside from my earlier comments about husbands and fathers, I don't see anything more in Scripture about this.

Given that you seem to think there is more to it, you're welcome to share, but please provide clearly relevant Scripture to support your assertions.
 
ValleyAnt

ValleyAnt

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
That really doesn't clarify exactly what it is, or it's practical working. In other words, this is how it works and these are the benefits it provides
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I wish I had time to try to explain but I don't. Thankfully, the Bible is clear that the Holy Spirit is "the Spirit of truth" and is able to reveal all truth-- not just biblical truth but all truth. If you have the Holy Spirit, then you can read or hear what someone says and the Holy Spirit in you is able to verify or deny what they say. When I talk, I let the Holy Spirit do whatever He will. The Holy Spirit is a better teacher than anyone else. Why not ask Him, "Is this thing about spiritual covering true?" or "Is spiritual covering a real thing and if it is, teach me about it".

I learned the things I learned from asking, seeking, and knocking. I worked hard for a lot of it. If I climb a mountain that took days to climb and someone standing at the bottom shouts up to me to explain the view to them, I can explain all I want but they don't have the view I have. What I tell them won't make sense to them. They can't see the mountain goats below me but above them; they can't see the stream and can't imagine one can exist in that barren region; etc. You have to ask God about things for yourself. It just has to be done, otherwise you will believe or not believe, but you won't necessarily be right.

When Jesus asked the disciples who they thought He was, He was exemplifying this dynamic: believing and knowing aren't the same thing. God wants us to start with believing (like faith), but He wants us to grow to the place of knowing (like trust). If you require an explanation from people (which is okay) but not from God Himself (which isn't okay), then you will be forever stuck in the elementary place of believing. Every religion believes in some god; only believers can actually know the only true God. Maybe as you read my posts it will begin to dawn on you. Ask God to 'open your ears' (spiritual ears) to recognize when He speaks and 'soften your heart' so when His words fall on it, they can sink down into it and start growing. You'll lose nothing by praying this; in fact, if you keep praying it humbly, you will suddenly begin to sense the Holy Spirit and to 'absorb' or 'osmose' a sudden realization of God's mind or will. He will suddenly be 'there' or 'beside you'. But without a heart and ears that are sensitive to God, no amount of teaching or learning will ever cause satisfy (or fill up) that hole or area of lack.
 
ValleyAnt

ValleyAnt

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#20
Dino246 said:
This is still somewhat obtuse. Non-believers don't have any spiritual covering (in the protective sense), and believers are covered by Jesus Christ. Further, non-believers likely wouldn't care to understand it. Aside from my earlier comments about husbands and fathers, I don't see anything more in Scripture about this.

Given that you seem to think there is more to it, you're welcome to share, but please provide clearly relevant Scripture to support your assertions.
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Read my response to ChristRoseFromTheDead and whenever you read anything I write (and what anyone else writes too), intentionally ask God to show you what is true or false in it. If you keep doing that, in time you won't need a whole lot of explaining from me or anyone else.

The spiritual covering issue is vast; vast but not complicated. It is so simple that it is easy to miss. It's sitting on your nose; it's the skin covering everything underneath; it's the roof above your head; it's the protection of confidence vs. insecurity; it's the need for the Body of Christ (1Cor. 12); it's the need for Jesus's five-fold and other ministries; it's in the natural plane, the emotional plane, and the spiritual plane; it's in the air you breathe; it's everywhere, but it can't be seen until God reveals it. Think about when Elisha's servant reported to him that an army had surrounded them and Elisha told him there was a larger army on their side: Elisha had to ask God to open his eyes before he saw that larger army. (2Kings 6.) Humans aren't creators; we 'invent' things... but did we really invent those things? Not at all.

The thrones and tables and things in Heaven that are on earth were not invented by humans; God didn't look down at the stuff we have and say, "You know, Let Us make those things as well." When people invent things, they 'throw out their mind' (seek, ponder, contemplate, thing, consider, meditate) into the immaterial world until they find whatever they are inventing. All those things already exist; we don't create them; we find them. (Research how the word 'Eureka' was popularized; 'Eureka' is Greek for "I have found it".) We don't invent things; we find things that already exist on another plane. Ask God to open your eyes so you can clearly see regarding topics like spiritual covering. The truths about it are already around you but you can't see them because your eyes haven't yet been opened to them. Be an inventor: through your mind (spirit) out and seek. Both chrisians and non-christians are able to do this. OT Saints did this before the time of the New Covenant, so we are more able:

Asaph said, "I meditate within my heart, and my spirit makes diligent search." To meditate is to search, to ponder, to 'throw your mind out' (or inward). (Read Psalm 77:1-6 and practice seeking God intentionally and purposefully for answers you don't have.) Jesus said that everyone who seeks finds. For those who want to lawyer for their own laziness and don't want to do the hard and intentional work of seeking, my only answer is "Do it and you'll see." Or don't do it. Everyone has free will.
 
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