Apologetics: witnessing to atheists

Acts 19:8 And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, arguing and pleading about the kingdom of God;

Acts 21:28 28 crying out, Men of Israel, help! This is the man who is teaching men everywhere against the people and the law and this place; moreover he also brought Greeks into the temple, and he has defiled this holy place.”

2 Timothy 1:15 - 15You know that everyone in the Province of Asia has deserted me, including Phygelus and Hermogenes.


Yes I’m not disputing he went to areas in Asia - and he appears to have changed many - not sure that proves he founded - as he himself says he was rejected by the whole of Asia and he went many years after as he went to Arabia and so on

We also have HS below?

Acts 16:6 6 Now when they had gone through Phrygia and the region of Galatia, they were forbidden by the Holy Spirit to preach the word in Asia.

Now for the "nature attributes".

5. The Bible says that God is love and true love comes from God (1JN 4:7-21, RM 5:5), so volitional creatures or souls can love only by reflecting, imitating or cooperating with the Creator’s love. Although the Bible speaks of God hating Esau (ML 1:3) and other evil people (HS 9:15), Jesus’ teaching of love for enemies (MT 5:44) reveals that God loves all creatures including Satan but hates their sinful choices.

It seems logical to assume that the all-loving God would create the best possible world or one in which the most/greatest percentage of persons may attain ultimate joy (1TM 2:3-4, 2PT 3:9). God may have created all possible kinds of worlds simultaneously: the world of dead matter, the world of living plants, the world of intelligent animals, and the world of morally accountable souls/humans. God’s world/way is best.

6. The Bible teaches that God is truth (JN 1:17, 8:40, 15:26, 17:17), so all truth is from God and manifests God’s Spirit. If any atheists are truthseekers, then they are not far from the kingdom of God (MK 12:34, 2THS 2:10, JN 18:37), because Jesus promised that those who seek will find (LK 11:9&13).

Of course, if the truth is that there is no God or heaven (which I doubt), then what we believe is no more significant than the ideology of a rock or some other evolved collection of atoms (ECC 3:20)! Truth or God’s Word is represented in the Bible as light (JN 1:1-9), which also signifies God’s glory (LK 2:9).

7. The Bible also teaches that God is just (RM 3:25-26, 9:14, 2THS 1:6). This doctrine is called theodicy. It means that we should be careful lest our explanations of God’s will seem unloving or unfair. If a person cannot explain how a loving God could order the execution of babies (JSH 6:17, 8:2), then possibly He did not do so and we need to consider an alternative interpretation. Synonyms for justness include righteousness and goodness (IS 5:16).

ACTS 16:6 relates Paul's previous missionary journey.

Winding up the NT concept of God's nature or moral attributes, we maintain that even the wrath of God is an expression of His love. Hebrews 12:4-11 offers the clue for harmonizing these two themes. This passage indicates that divine wrath is intended as discipline: to teach people to repent of their hatefulness or faithlessness (PR 3:12, IS 33:14-15 RV 3:19) before they die, after which divine wrath will be experienced justly without the opportunity for repentance.

If a righteous explanation for God's words or actions cannot be found for a passage, then it should be considered as historical or descriptive rather than definitive, because God is loving and just, which means He does not tempt, trick, confuse or otherwise contribute to anyone’s sinfulness. On the contrary, God must be doing all that He can do without abrogating justice or volition (MFW) to influence people not to be deceived and become self-condemned (JM 1:13-17, TIT 3:11, IS 45:19).

This realization should steer us away from the problematic opinion (a la Augustine via John Calvin) that God predestines most people for hell and lead us to affirm free will as a paradoxical fact (DT 30:19). It is paradoxical, because it affirms both that God is sovereign and that God chooses not to control moral thinking, because doing so would nullify human responsibility for sin, making the biblical revelation of salvation based on repentance irrelevant and absurd.

Our relationship with the loving God is signified in the Bible by marriage (IS 62:5, MT 19:6, EPH 5:25-32). People are free to repent and become part of the Bride of Christ (RV 21:9), and believers may choose to be spiritually unfaithful or commit adultery (apostasy, cf. HOS 1:2f.) and become spiritually divorced from the Lord. (Marriage may signify spiritual union.)

Three issues frequently are cited as constituting stumbling-blocks to belief in the NT God for some people. The first problematic issue is reconciling God’s power and love with the fact of evil and its consequence. A person—even a theist—might think that God would not permit evil, suffering and hell to exist. People who are mystified by evil and repulsed by its punishment do not realize that the essential aspect of being a human rather than a robot or subhuman creature is moral free will (MFW), which is what enables a person to experience love and meaning. This is what makes humans different from animals, whose behavior is governed mainly by instinct. This is what it means to be created in God’s image (GN 1:26-27; robot or responsible)?

God could not force people to return His love without abrogating their humanity. If God were to zap ungodly souls, it would be tantamount to forcing conversions at gunpoint, which would not be free and genuine. If God were to prevent people from behaving hatefully, then He would need to prevent them from thinking evilly, which would make human souls programmed automatons.

Even if God were to prove Himself to skeptics by means of a miracle, they might believe for awhile and then as their memories began to fade they would probably think that God had died and revert to their former doubt—necessitating an endless string of miracles (recapitulating the story of the Israelites on the way to Canaan after the exodus from Egypt).

However, for reasons we may understand only sufficiently rather than completely, God designed reality so that experiencing His presence is less than compelling, so that even Jesus (God the Son) on the cross cried out “My God [the Father], why have you forsaken [taken God the Spirit from] me?” (MT 27:46, PS 51:11) This phenomenon is sometimes called “distanciation”, because we experience God as distant from us and “unknown” (ACTS 17:23), even though He is close or immanent, “for in Him we live and move and have our being” (ACTS 17:28). Distanciation is not forsaken.

God’s normative means of conversion is persuasion rather than coercion (MT 12:39, 24:24, 1CR 1:22-23). This is seen very clearly in Jesus’ lament over the obstinacy of Jerusalem (MT 23:37). Two unusual theophanies included when God appeared to Moses (in a burning bush per EX 3:2-6), whom God wanted to establish the Jewish lineage for the Messiah (OT), and to Saul/Paul (as the resurrected Jesus in ACTS 9:3-6), whom God chose to establish the NT church of Christ. Miracles are rare (not normative).

Moral free will (MFW) only exists when there is the possibility of choosing between two qualitatively opposite moral options that we call good and evil. These options are opposites because of essentially different consequences for choosing them. Choosing good results in blessing, life and heaven; and choosing evil results in cursing, death and hell (DT 30:19). This is why hell as well as heaven exists. It is the just consequence for choosing evil rather than God.

The Spirit of God is good: love, peace and joy (GL 5:22-23). Therefore, whoever rejects the Lord is spiritually separated from Him (IS 59:2) and thereby chooses the evil or satanic spirit of hatred, strife and misery and reaps the just consequence called “hell” in the afterlife (GL 6:7-9, HB 9:27-28). These options were presented by Moses to the Israelites (DT 30:19), and Jesus referred to this fundamental choice in terms of a fish or egg versus a snake or scorpion (LK 11:11-13). Life… or Curse? (GN 3:24, RV 22:1-2)

God created theoretical evil or the possibility of rejecting Him as an option that actualizes MFW/free human personality. As such it is necessary and even good (GN 1:31). Of course, it was wrong for Satan (1JN 3:8) and humanity (RM 5:12) to make evil actual by choosing to Sin or reject Faith in God’s Lordship. Sin: ignoring God/God’s Word.

God loves a cheerful giver (2CR 9:7), which means He desires people to cooperate with Him happily because of love and gratitude for His grace rather than to cower before Him because of fear of hell. Love must be evoked; it cannot be coerced. And again, when souls sin or do NOT choose to love God freely, it is perfectly just (loving and logical) for them to reap the appropriate consequence (GL 6:7-9) or hell.

Why would anyone choose to believe otherwise? Only God knows why people choose atheism. It is a mystery stated by Isaiah, which is cited by Jesus (in MT 13:14-15): “You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s heart has become calloused.”

Apparently, this callous attitude demands God to nullify faith/MFW and thereby abrogate the essence of humanness by performing miracles in order to prove He exists (MT 12:39, 24:24, JN 20:29 & 1CR 1:22). In other words, atheists presume to know better than God; they want to usurp divine authority to determine what is best or good, but they may one day (at the eschaton per RV 20:15) wish they had admitted the possibility that God has ordained this mortal life on earth for the purpose of people proving to Him who is worthy of (qualified for) eternal life in heaven (cf. RM 2:5-8 & 2CR 13:5; heart/mind: hard or open?).

Such evil people punish/torture themselves by experiencing delayed karma, just as those who experience appropriate justice during this earthly existence also punish themselves or reap what they have sown and send themselves to jail. This view makes souls responsible for breaking the rules rather than blaming evil on the judges (or Judge) who enforce the rules.

The purpose of earthly punishment is to promote repentance, but the reason for retribution in hell is to attain justice. It is difficult to imagine, but somehow even someone as evil as Hitler will receive perfect justice, perhaps experiencing the agony of the millions of deaths he caused in accordance with the principal of “eye for eye” (MT 5:38), after which their souls are destroyed forever (per JN 17:12, RM 9:22, GL 6:8, PHP 3:19, 2THS 1:9 & 2PT 3:7).

A second common confusing issue is the doctrine of the Trinity. The OT Shema (DT 6:4) teaches that God is one, and the NT also affirms that there is one God (EPH 4:6, 1TM 2:5). However, the NT teaches that God relates to believers in three ways simultaneously: as the Father, as the Son and as the Holy Spirit (1 x 1 x 1=1).

The Father/Parenthood of God is indicated in Jesus’ model prayer (MT 6:9), throughout the Gospel of John (3:35, 5:17-18, etc.), and in the epistles of Paul (RM 4:11, 8:15, PHP 2:11). God the Father and Christ’s Sonship are discussed in Hebrews 1:1-4. The Son of God also is mentioned by John (JN 1:14, 3:16, etc.) and by Paul (RM 1:4, GL 2:20, 1THS 1:10). The Holy Spirit is mentioned in three successive chapters in John (JN 14:26, 15:26, 16:13), frequently in the book of Acts (ACTS 1:5, 2:4, 9:17, 13:2, 19:2), and in many of Paul’s letters (RM 8:4-26, 1CR 6:19, EPH 4:30) as well as in some of the other epistles (2PT 1:21, JUDE 20).

Apparently, Christians failed to explain to Mohammed (c. 610) how God is able to relate to Himself and to creation as a Triunity, and so the prophet’s teaching stressed that there is one God and implied that the Christian gospel is false. It might have been helpful for him and others who stumble at NT doctrines to discern which aspect of the triune God is the subject of various biblical statements. These divine aspects or “persons” may be distinguished by role: God the Father as creator or initiator (GN 1:1), God the Son as Messiah or mediator (1TM 2:5), and God the Spirit as indweller (RM 5:5). For example, 1 John 4:7 says love comes from (is initiated by) God (the Father), Galatians 5:22 says that love is a fruit of the (indwelling) Spirit, and Ephesians 3:18 speaks of the (mediating) love of Christ (RM 5:8, EPH 2:18).

With the exception of those who will be "caught up" when Christ returns, everybody else will die one day. In Hebrews 2:15, we are told that through fear of death people are subject to bondage all their lifetime. Whether atheist or agnostic, people fear death; whether they openly admit it or not. For me, that is a good place to begin. Address death as being the wages of sin, and then preach the crucified and resurrected Christ as its only cure.

I agree. I recently posted my Top 10 "fountainhead" Scriptures on the Hermeneutics thread, and #1 was EPH 3:12b, "Formerly/at first I was without hope of salvation from meaninglessness and death."

However, I cited a couple of other Scriptures by way of leading to the Way:

2. So, I sought salvation and found God. (MT 7:7, HB 11:6b)

3. The loving God who wants all souls to learn the truth about how to be saved. (1TM 2:3-4, JN 3:16)

4. Which is to believe that Jesus is Christ, whose death atoned for humanity’s sins. (1TM 2:5-6)

We can denote these distinctions by the use of three prepositions: God the Father is over all creation (EPH 4:6), God the Son is Immanuel or with humanity (MT 1:23), and the Holy Spirit is within all believers (EPH 1:13). A single passage that comes closest to indicating this distinction is Ephesians 3:14-19, in which Paul prays to the Father [over us] that through His Spirit of love Christ [who is with us] would dwell in [within] believers’ hearts (also see 1CR 8:6).

When the Bible uses masculine words for God, it should be understood that only God the Son is human and had a sexual orientation while on earth. GN 1:26-27 states that both male and female were created in God’s image, referring not to androgyny but to personality, and Jesus said (in MT 22:30 & 19:11-12) that there is no marriage and thus no need for sexuality in heaven.

Actually, since the creation also manifests God (RM 1:20, cf. JN 1:1-3 & PS 33:6), in a sense God may be viewed as a “Quadity”. As Paul told the Athenians (ACTS 17:28), “In Him we live and move and have our being.” God as Creation is throughout physical reality (called “panentheism”). However, since this mode of revelation is impersonal, it has rightly been de-emphasized by most Christian denominations.

The third problematic issue is not as commonly debated as the others; it concerns the freedom of God. Can God be evil? Is God the Father able to change His will, is God the Son free to sin, and could God the Holy Spirit become demonic? Is it possible for God to be tricky?

If God cannot do what He has decreed to be evil, then He would not be as free as volitional creatures, and there would be no basis for praising His holiness. Paul (in RM 9:16-21) upholds the freedom of God to love or hate as He chooses. Just as God created physical laws such as gravity, so He created moral laws such as “love everyone” and determined a plan of salvation involving the atoning death of Messiah to win our redemption from hell. Thou shalt love (MT 22:37-40).

The cliche “might makes right” is true; it is because God is almighty that only He can determine what is right ultimately. There is no super-divine authority that determines God; God is self-determined. The only basis humans have for evaluating whether God is just is understanding how God’s acts and judgments are consistent with the moral principles He has ordained for those created in His image (RM 3:22-26).

God’s decision to be all-loving is rational, because God is pleased by doing good for creatures, but it is free because God could have chosen to anoint Satan to embody evil logic/lies rather than Jesus to manifest love and truth (JN 1:14, PHP 2:9-11), and this earthly existence would be hell (RV 19:11-13, 20:7-10 & 21:6-8).

If God were ever to change His mind/what pleases Him, it would mean that God is tricky and that morality is ultimately arbitrary. Thus, ultimate reality would indeed be a farce. This is why we should not take God and divine love for granted. Instead, we should be eternally grateful that God has decreed loving to be right, and He promises never to change (ML 3:6). Let us praise God in the spirit of Psalm 66:1: “Shout with joy to God, all the earth! Sing to the glory of his name; Offer him glory and praise!”

I will conclude the logical train of thought that has been presented in this thread by summarizing the pieces of the puzzle we call ultimate reality that have been connected:

I. A set of unavoidable beliefs (in reality, in human subjectivity, and that souls may comprehend ultimate truth sufficiently).

II. To these were added the best (most logical) answers to two watershed questions (belief that life has meaning or a basis for morality, and belief that God is the foundation for meaning and morality, embodied most fully in Jesus of Nazareth as the visible Lord of human history).

III. A logical argument for choosing to believe in the NT God (the scientific “big bang” theory, theocentric human history, existential needs, and moral conscience).

IV. A rationale for hoping God provides heaven and hell or the DOD (the Propensity Principle and the Naaman Example).

V. The NT revelation or concept of God (omni-powerful and loving nature; the just Judge of life’s test).

VI. Explanations of three issues that many find confusing: why God permits evil/hell, how He relates to humans, and whether He is free.

Because the Supreme Being is all-loving (1JN 4:7-8) and created the cosmos because He wanted to bless its human inhabitants with eternal life (JN 3:16), then surely this means that God is not tricky in communicating His will to them/us. Thus, I am impressed by a prayer of Jesus in Matthew 11:25 and His statement in Matthew 18:3, which indicate that God’s requirement for salvation is simple enough for a child (young soul) to comprehend, and I am thankful. When I seek this word from God, I find love, and I am joyful. Jesus stated (in MT 22:37-40) that the entire biblical revelation of God’s moral requirement may be summarized by the commandments to love the Lord and allow Him to love others through us. Amen; Thy will be done!

I hope this thread has helped answer questions asked by atheists (cf. 1PT 3:15), such as those per a PsychLove article on the MSN news site yesterday.

Here is the first one: What is the meaning of life?

And the answer per logic/right reasoning and interpretation of Scripture is?

To know and love God.

And yet, if any atheist is going to be saved, he will be saved through the foolishness of preaching, because the gospel of Jesus Christ is the power of God unto salvation. Let's not minimize the power of the word of God.

I agree. Truths that should persuade an open-minded or logical atheist to have a propensity to know and love God are these IMO:

1. Current scientific knowledge cannot explain how the universe came to exist by means of natural causes, thus it is possible that the cause of the universe is a supernatural Creator/God.

2. The most creative species is humanity, whose traits also include language, moral conscience and God consciousness (personality), so it is possible that these human traits reflect attributes of a God who created humanity.

3. Existential reality indicates that humans are mortal and life is painful, but when life is happy, one wishes it would continue indefinitely. Thus, it is rational to seek ways to become immortal in a heavenly existence (where there is love and justice for all forever, the DOD).

4. Comparing all possible ways of achieving the DOD, the best or most credible way/hope at this point appears to be the God who resurrected Christ Jesus, although if a natural cause of the universe is discovered in the future, atheists still would have no reasonable hope humanity could create a utopian existence.

5. When words from God are sought, the NT teachings of Jesus and Paul seem to be the most highly inspired when compared with other scriptures (including the OT), because its concept of one God as the just and all-loving Judge (rationale for morality) is spiritually highest or most advanced, and the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus is most credible (although not compelling).

6. Thus, it is appropriate or wise to believe in the NT God and to accept Jesus as God’s Messiah, until/unless a better hope for heaven becomes available--which hasn't happened yet.

Atheists deny the validity of this argument, but in the absence of disproof, I find the decision to reject the biblical gospel of salvation from selfishness, spiritual death, and a miserable destiny to be illogical or foolish. This is why all truthseekers should seek God and accept the NT Gospel now until future evidence/events prove atheism to have been a correct although unlucky guess.

As someone has said, heaven is like a vision of water in the desert: the scoffer will surely die where he/she is, while the believer will live if right. Again, however, this analogy should be viewed in terms of comparison shopping and logic rather than of blind faith and fear. Heaven may not be a mirage!

A biblical illustration of the this logic is the OT story about Naaman being told to bathe in the dirty Jordan River to cure his leprosy (2KG 5:10-14). The Naaman Example teaches us not to let sinful pride prevent us from being cured of spiritual sickness by methods we think are silly or do not understand. Some people might not understand why God ordained Messiah to atone for humanity’s sins, so they think the Gospel seems foolish or silly (cf. 1CR 1:18-25). However, they accept physical reality without necessarily understanding very well how it works (cf. JN 3:8). God’s way: humility = teachability.

Those who reject the Propensity Principle (and Naaman Example) apparently employ a logical fallacy I call non praecedere (comparable to non sequitur), making an unwarranted conclusion which precedes unknown facts, namely the cause for the universe “banging bigly”. Atheists assume a natural cause will be discovered, but their hopeless assumption is premature and thus inappropriate.

Yes, per 1CR 1:18-2:5. But then Paul goes on to say, "We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature... We declare God's wisdom... the mind of Christ." (v.6-7&16b) IOW, Paul employs right reasoning to explain the wisdom of cooperating with GW.

Biblical passages that seem to support the view that human logic is a divine gift include the following:

1. “Come now, let us reason together,” says the Lord. (IS 1:18a)

2. “They hated me without reason.” (JN 15:25)

3. “So [Paul] reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there.” (ACTS 17:17)

4. “We do, however, speak a message of wisdom [right reasoning] among the mature…” (1CR 2:6)

5. “When I was a child… I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.” (1CR 13:11)

6. “Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.” (1PT 3:15b)

These passages indicate that we should think and attempt to learn the best beliefs/opinions or solutions regarding issues including refuting the arguments or accusations of atheists.

Okay, the next question or objection of atheists is this:

If God is loving, why does He allow suffering?

And the answer per logic/right reasoning and interpretation of Scripture is?