The Effect of Eve's Sin on Women

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2ndTimeIsTheCharm

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

Well-known member
#221
Feb 17, 2023
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#221
Dino246 said:
No, Adam was not given authority over Eve. Eve was told that, as a result of what she did, her husband would rule over her. It's a statement of certain consequence, not a statement of authority.

Look at it this way: why would God, Who is good, give now-sinful man authority over anything, let alone His precious daughter? May it never be! Rather, look at the many ways in which men have oppressed women and consider whether that is perhaps the exact consequence that God foretold!

There isn't a single "command" anywhere in the Law saying that women must be "under obedience". Paul knew the Law better than you or I do, and he knew that. The best explanation is that verses 34 and 35 in 1 Corinthians 14 are a quotation of another person's words. That means verse 36 is Paul rejecting the idea that women must be silent, which is consistent with Galatians 3:28.
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Ephesians 5:21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.


🧊
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#222
Jun 30, 2015
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#222
2ndTimeIsTheCharm said:
Ephesians 5:21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.


🧊
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Perhaps you could add a few words of your own to explain your point?
 
Webers.Home

Webers.Home

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May 28, 2018
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#223
.
It's believed by a pretty large percentage of conventional Christians that the
so called fallen nature is propagated by men. Oh? From whence did Eve get
it?

She was already alive and fully constructed with material taken from Adam's
body prior to the forbidden fruit incident. Since himself tasted the fruit after
his wife was already in existence; then it was impossible for Adam to pass
the fallen nature to her by means of heredity.

In the past, I was sure that the chemistry of the forbidden fruit had
something to do with the first couple's altered moral perception; but now I
seriously doubt it because Eve was the first to eat the fruit, and when she
did, nothing happened. She remained just as shameless in the buff as
before. It wasn't till Adam tasted the fruit that she began to feel exposed; so
I'm pretty sure that the underlying cause is far more serious than the
chemistry of that fruit.

FAQ: If Eve's fallen condition wasn't due to the fruit, nor due to heredity, then what?

REPLY: Well; obviously the Serpent did it to her, a.k.a. the Devil (Rev 20:2)

The ruler of the kingdom of the air-- i.e. the spirit world --has the power of
death (Heb 2:14) and the ability to tamper with the human body and the
human mind in ways not easily detected; e.g. Luke 13:16, Mark 5:1-5, Eph
2:2. So then, Jesus wasn't spinning hyperbole when he told his opponents
they were of their father the Devil. (John 8:38-44)

The Serpent was apparently all set and ready to wield his power the moment
that Adam crossed the line and ate that fruit. It amazes me how quickly it
takes effect. Not long after Adam tasted the fruit, he and his wife both
immediately set to work cobbling together some rudimentary aprons to
cover up their pelvic areas.

FAQ: When does the Serpent go to work on people. . . in the womb or out of
the womb?

REPLY: Adam and his wife demonstrate that it can be done on adults, but
I'm guessing that for most of us it's in the womb; and if not in the womb,
then certainly no later than when we're born. (Ps 51:5 & Ps 58:3)

So then: even if Joseph had fathered baby Jesus, the child wouldn't have
necessarily been born with the so-called fallen nature because it's not
passed on by one's father nor one's mother. It's obtained from humanity's
covert parent: the Devil-- protecting baby Jesus from the so-called fallen
nature was just a simple matter of keeping the Devil's paws off him.
_
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#224
Jun 30, 2015
25,491
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#224
Webers.Home said:
In the past, I was sure that the chemistry of the forbidden fruit had
something to do with the first couple's altered moral perception; but now I seriously doubt it because Eve was the first to eat the fruit, and when she did, nothing happened. She remained just as shameless in the buff as before.
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There is no scriptural evidence for this claim.

" When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. "

There is little to no time between her eating the fruit and him eating the fruit. Let's not speculate about what did or didn't happen in those intervening seconds... if indeed it was even that long.
 
G

GWH

Groovy
#225
Oct 19, 2024
1,099
295
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#225
Dino246 said:
No, Adam was not given authority over Eve. Eve was told that, as a result of what she did, her husband would rule over her. It's a statement of certain consequence, not a statement of authority.

Look at it this way: why would God, Who is good, give now-sinful man authority over anything, let alone His precious daughter? May it never be! Rather, look at the many ways in which men have oppressed women and consider whether that is perhaps the exact consequence that God foretold!

There isn't a single "command" anywhere in the Law saying that women must be "under obedience". Paul knew the Law better than you or I do, and he knew that. The best explanation is that verses 34 and 35 in 1 Corinthians 14 are a quotation of another person's words. That means verse 36 is Paul rejecting the idea that women must be silent, which is consistent with Galatians 3:28.
Click to expand...
Correct, and Satan has no authority over man. Cf. TOJ #6:

TOJ #6: Worship only God. [MT 4:10//LK 4:8] The account of the third temptation is slightly fuller in Luke (where it is mentioned second). What Satan claimed in verses six and seven (in LK) are lies. God has not given all authority to Satan; Satan tries to usurp it (RM 13:1-5). The only power Satan and people have is permission to disobey and rebel against God’s authority within limits (GN 2:16-17, 3:22-24, 6:3, 11:6-9, JOB 1:12, 2:6; TOJ #136).
 
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