Apologetics: witnessing to atheists

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Nov 14, 2024
24
11
3
Correct, which means having absolute assurance of salvation is impossible until one's last breath on the deathbed, because one cannot know for sure whether he/she will become a "never Christian to begin with".
Not true!!! For Christian, the Joly Spirit bears witness with OUR spirit that we are children of God. (Rom 8:16). The Born again Christian HAS Abbsolute assurance if their spiritual condition.

If they don't - then they're NOT.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
1,741
441
83
I actually mean what I say. Your attempts to alter my meaning doesn't change what I intended. I didn't alter, but added given the post I was responding to, which wasn't yours but another poster's.
And amount and degree are not synonymous. I don't measure liquids by degree or latitude by amount.
I guess we are NOT good then, but both degree and amount refer to quantitative physical measurements along with knowing fully, whereas knowing experientially is a qualitative difference referring to intimate spiritual relationship.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
1,741
441
83
Not true!!! For Christian, the Joly Spirit bears witness with OUR spirit that we are children of God. (Rom 8:16). The Born again Christian HAS Abbsolute assurance if their spiritual condition.

If they don't - then they're NOT.
Yes, but if we do not persevere in saving faith, then the HS will NOT continue to bear such witness but rather seek to prevent us from committing apostasy (RM 11:20b-22).
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
1,741
441
83
The need cited by the newsfeed writer is for Christians to remain humble and stress fallibility even of leaders while pointing the disillusioned folks to Christ.

The next reason some ex-Christians become skeptics is perceived lack of evidence to support faith. Somehow by the time I became an adult I had the idea that atheists walked by scientific facts while Christians walked by blind faith.
The fourth reason for falling from faith is suffering, perhaps caused by the loss of one's child or some other loved one despite praying for healing. Fortunately, I have not experienced such tragedy, but I am aware of it, which is why I have a rather macabre awareness of impending death almost every day I continue to live, which prompts me to smell a lot of roses!
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
1,741
441
83
If no one wants to share how suffering has impacted their faith, I will go on to the next reason ex-Christians become skeptics: disagreement with problematic teachings.

Does anyone want to cite something in the Bible that has bothered them?
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
1,741
441
83
If no one wants to share how suffering has impacted their faith, I will go on to the next reason ex-Christians become skeptics: disagreement with problematic teachings.

Does anyone want to cite something in the Bible that has bothered them?
Okay, the next reason people might cease being a Christian is this: The influence of college education, where atheist professors demean faith in God.

Fortunately, I did not experience such professors where I attended, but we know that many of the Dem leaders of my generation did, including Hillary Clinton, who wrote a dissertation dedicated to the atheist Alinsky. Also, I spent breaks between classes associating with Christian friends at the Baptist Student Union.

Unfortunately, my own children were not able to duplicate the BSU support, although they also did not have atheist professors where they attended.
 
Nov 14, 2024
24
11
3
atheist professors demean faith in God.
Although the ISSUE is more likely related to a lack of understanding of what "Biblical FAITH" is. What appears to be a more common understanding is that faith is a STRONGLY HELD BELIEF - A "Mental assent" to a belief structure.

However Heb 11:1 sets out two criteria for Biblical faith. It mast have SUBSTANCE, and it must be EVIDENCE of what you don't see - yet.

A fair percentage of religious "FAITH" has no "substance" at all, and isn't "evidence" of anything at all, other than how you happen to feel at the time.

Bottom line - IF you have to cling to, and defend what you call FAITH - then it's not Biblical FAITH AT ALL. it's nothing but religious belief, and won't get you anywhere spiritually. Denominations aren't "Faiths" they're nothing but Religious businesses with a descriptive charter enumerating the "theologies" which make up the individual denominational packages. Some are closer to BIBLICAL TRUTHS, and some are completely in "Left Field".

FAITH isn't threatened, of dimished by what some educated theological fool proclaims. FAITH holds YOU against the intellectual storm. If your "FAITH" doesn't, then it's not FAITH at all.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
1,741
441
83
Although the ISSUE is more likely related to a lack of understanding of what "Biblical FAITH" is. What appears to be a more common understanding is that faith is a STRONGLY HELD BELIEF - A "Mental assent" to a belief structure.

However Heb 11:1 sets out two criteria for Biblical faith. It mast have SUBSTANCE, and it must be EVIDENCE of what you don't see - yet.

A fair percentage of religious "FAITH" has no "substance" at all, and isn't "evidence" of anything at all, other than how you happen to feel at the time.

Bottom line - IF you have to cling to, and defend what you call FAITH - then it's not Biblical FAITH AT ALL. it's nothing but religious belief, and won't get you anywhere spiritually. Denominations aren't "Faiths" they're nothing but Religious businesses with a descriptive charter enumerating the "theologies" which make up the individual denominational packages. Some are closer to BIBLICAL TRUTHS, and some are completely in "Left Field".

FAITH isn't threatened, of dimished by what some educated theological fool proclaims. FAITH holds YOU against the intellectual storm. If your "FAITH" doesn't, then it's not FAITH at all.
Actually, atheists also have faith, but in false gods, which is I-dolatry, whereas Christian faith speaks/has a spiritual message of wisdom about salvation and ultimate truth. As we mature spiritually via learning God's Word guided taught by the Holy Spirit, our faith becomes like the perfect mind of Christ. (Cf. 1CR 2:6-16, JN 14:15-20, 16:12-15)
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
1,741
441
83
Not true!!! For Christian, the Joly Spirit bears witness with OUR spirit that we are children of God. (Rom 8:16). The Born again Christian HAS Abbsolute assurance if their spiritual condition.

If they don't - then they're NOT.
Absolute anything applies only to the infinite God (1TM 1:17), before Whom we should walk humbly (MIC 6:8) or being teachable (MT 11:29), confessing our finiteness and fallibility (1CR 15:9). IOW, all walk by faith (2CR 5:7); don't delude yourself (2THS 2:11). We have assurance/confidence of salvation (2CR 3:4) only as we persevere in faith (2CR 2:15-17, 3:5).
 

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
10,561
4,488
113
Almost Heaven West Virginia
Not true!!! For Christian, the Joly Spirit bears witness with OUR spirit that we are children of God. (Rom 8:16). The Born again Christian HAS Abbsolute assurance if their spiritual condition.

If they don't - then they're NOT.
Here's an example to Biblically make that point. It is taking God's promises at face value. In keeping with the topic, this is the closest I can find right now, an agnostic decides to trust Christ as his Savior.

 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
1,741
441
83
Except that you speaking of BELIEF not "FAITH" according to Heb 11:1.
Belief = Faith, which is the opposite of absolute/infallible certainty that only the infinite/omniscient God has, despite papal claimants such as yourself, so all born-again fallible Christians must walk by faith/belief per NT teaching. Otherwise, Paul would have written, "We walk by proof/absolute certainty, not by faith", and Jesus would have said, "...that whoever has absolute certainty regarding him, not merely faith, shall not perish."
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,041
6,864
113
62
Belief = Faith, which is the opposite of absolute/infallible certainty that only the infinite/omniscient God has, despite papal claimants such as yourself, so all born-again fallible Christians must walk by faith/belief per NT teaching. Otherwise, Paul would have written, "We walk by proof/absolute certainty, not by faith", and Jesus would have said, "...that whoever has absolute certainty regarding him, not merely faith, shall not perish."
Faith is certainty about what God has said...evidence of things not seen.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
1,741
441
83
Faith is certainty about what God has said...evidence of things not seen.
Evidence, yes; confidence, yes, but certainty? Not really, although there are three beliefs that seem to be unavoidable:

1. Truth or reality exists. EX 3:14 calls God “I am” (the essence of existence).

2. (Objective) reality is subjectively known by seekers. 2 CR 5:7 expresses this truth by saying, “We live by faith, not by sight” (proof or certainty, cf. 1CR 13:9&12)

3. Reality is meaningful and communicable or able to be discussed rationally in fellowship with other truthseekers. As Isaiah 1:18a (c.735 B.C.) says, “Come now, let us reason together.”

Beyond these, death and taxes are fairly certain also.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,041
6,864
113
62
Evidence, yes; confidence, yes, but certainty? Not really, although there are three beliefs that seem to be unavoidable:

1. Truth or reality exists. EX 3:14 calls God “I am” (the essence of existence).

2. (Objective) reality is subjectively known by seekers. 2 CR 5:7 expresses this truth by saying, “We live by faith, not by sight” (proof or certainty, cf. 1CR 13:9&12)

3. Reality is meaningful and communicable or able to be discussed rationally in fellowship with other truthseekers. As Isaiah 1:18a (c.735 B.C.) says, “Come now, let us reason together.”

Beyond these, death and taxes are fairly certain also.
If it's not certainty, then there is doubt. If we ask in doubt, James 1:6 says that is not faith and we will not receive what we ask.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,098
30,223
113
Evidence, yes; confidence, yes, but certainty?

1 John 5:11-13 + John 6:47 ~ This is that testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
:)
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
1,741
441
83
If it's not certainty, then there is doubt. If we ask in doubt, James 1:6 says that is not faith and we will not receive what we ask.
Yes, but PTL, God gives us volition, so we may choose to doubt our doubts = have faith, even confident faith because of so many good reasons to believe in Christ.

BTW, faith must coincide with God's will/GW in order for prayer requests to be granted. Otherwise, the answer to what we ask will be "No".
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,041
6,864
113
62
Yes, but PTL, God gives us volition, so we may choose to doubt our doubts = have faith, even confident faith because of so many good reasons to believe in Christ.

BTW, faith must coincide with God's will/GW in order for prayer requests to be granted. Otherwise, the answer to what we ask will be "No".
What?
You said faith wasn't certainty. I showed you biblically it was. You respond with double speak and change the subject.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
1,741
441
83
What?
You said faith wasn't certainty. I showed you biblically it was. You respond with double speak and change the subject.
No, I showed you that faith is an act of will (not a meritorious work BTW) that must agree with God's will (to accept Jesus as Messiah and Lord) in order to be salvific or effective in prayer (thy will be done).

I have also noted that those who are fallible cannot have absolute or infallible certainty.