James & Ecclesiastes - What is Wisdom?

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SilverFox7

Well-known member
Dec 24, 2022
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450
63
Grand Rapids, Michigan
#1
I heard an excellent sermon a number of years ago that focused on the book of Ecclesiastes, and the pastor noted that James is an excellent complimentary epistle to Ecclesiastes. Both books fall within the category of "wisdom literature" with their short maxims that emphasize properly living a "righteous" and "prosperous" life in the flesh (Ecclesiastes) and in the Spirit (James).

Ecclesiastes was likely written by king Solomon later in his life. After succeeding his father, David, on the throne at a very young age, he started off down the right path by asking God for wisdom to govern the nation with a "discerning heart" to "distinguish between right and wrong" (I Kings 3: 9). God was pleased with this request and said, "...I will give you a wise and discerning heart, so that there will never have been anyone like you, nor will there ever be" (v. 12).

Solomon shares his wisdom through the book of Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Psalms 72 and 127 along with the Song of Solomon. Early on in his career, he built upon David's success and led Israel to the height of their physical power and prestige as a nation. Unfortunately, unlike his father, he fell into heavy idolatry, had wives and concubines from other nations, and neglected his relationship with God to the point that Solomon's salvation is questionable (e.g. he is excluded in the list of "heroes of faith" in Hebrews 11).

Solomon lived a life of experimentation. Rather than focusing on God like David did, Solomon pursued a life of leisure and pleasure, but he sums up the results right at the beginning of Ecclesiastes that he felt emptiness in that lifestyle:

Ecclesiastes 1:1-2

New King James Version

The Vanity of Life

1 The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.

2 “Vanity of vanities,” says the Preacher;
“Vanity of vanities, all is vanity.”

James on the other hand begins his letter much differently, emphasizing right up front that he is a servant of God, and life is far from "vanity" when we are living in Christ:

James 1

New King James Version

1 James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad:

Greetings.

2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials,

3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces [a]patience.

4 But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be [b]perfect and complete, lacking nothing.

I've been looking forward to tackling these two challenging texts for quite some time, yet I may have bitten off more than I can chew. But, with your help, I'm excited about gaining more "wisdom" hopefully through this study and fellowship with all of you.
 
Jul 3, 2015
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#2

Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 What has been will be again, and what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. Is there a case where one can say, "Look, this is new"? It has already existed in the ages before us.
:)
 
Jul 3, 2015
61,592
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#3

Ecclesiastes 1:17-18 I set my mind to know wisdom and madness and folly; I learned that this, too, is a pursuit of the wind. For with much wisdom comes much sorrow, and as knowledge grows, grief increases.
:)
 

Edify

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2021
1,594
670
113
#4

Ecclesiastes 1:17-18 I set my mind to know wisdom and madness and folly; I learned that this, too, is a pursuit of the wind. For with much wisdom comes much sorrow, and as knowledge grows, grief increases.
:)
That last part is especially true. The more we know & understand, the more we see(discern) what's really going on around us.
Through knowledge, understanding, & wisdom, you can see why Jeremiah was known as the weeping prophet.
 

SilverFox7

Well-known member
Dec 24, 2022
709
450
63
Grand Rapids, Michigan
#5
James on the other hand begins his letter much differently, emphasizing right up front that he is a servant of God, and life is far from "vanity" when we are living in Christ:

James 1

New King James Version

1 James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad:

Greetings.

2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials,

3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces [a]patience.

4 But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be [b]perfect and complete, lacking nothing.
The epistle of James was written around A.D. 45 and is attributed to the brother of Jesus, who was the leader of the church in Jerusalem. Martin Luther was not a fan of this book and called it "an epistle of straw" that was not in the same caliber as the epistles of Paul or the rest of the Bible for that matter. Luther felt James strayed from the Gospel focus of Paul's writing and actually put it at the end of his translation of the New Testament.

In contrast to Paul's "justification by faith" focus, Luther felt James emphasized a "justification by works" approach towards the Christian life. Regardless of Luther's opinion on this epistle, which I respect, it was canonized into the New Testament by the church fathers and remains an important part of scripture.

The emphasis of "works" and tangible results manifested through a life of faith can be troublesome to reconcile with a "grace-based" viewpoint. However, there are a lot of valuable nuggets within this powerful letter, and one of my areas of criticism will attempt to weave James' ideas in with the overall new covenant we are living under as Christ's disciples today.

James addresses this letter "to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad," which is generally interpreted as Jewish Christians outside of Jerusalem. So, in essence, he was writing to "spiritual Israel" since we are all one in Jesus Christ and spiritual descendants of Abraham through faith. Remember, most of the Jews living in Palestine at the time of the early church were from the tribes of Judah and Benjamin. The other 10 tribes were conquered by the Assyrians ~720 B.C., taken captive into their nation, and then scattered abroad after Assyria fell to the Medes and Babylonians. The idea that the letter was written to the "lost tribes of Israel" is intriguing, but there isn't a lot of solid evidence to support this theory.

I love how James begins his letter with, "My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience" (James 1: 2-3). As much as I don't enjoy trials, I have seen how they have built positive character traits within me and made me a stronger Christian overall. I remember one of my deacon friends advising me not to "pray for trials," though, because he said God is always happy to answer this prayer swiftly. I did have to try it once, and boy did I have a rough day at work the next day :D!
 
Nov 1, 2024
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#6
Remember, most of the Jews living in Palestine at the time of the early church were from the tribes of Judah and Benjamin.
I would say that's true for Judea, but not the rest of the land. Most who lived in the northern parts like Galilee were from other tribes. They referred to those who lived in Judea as Jews, which means Judean. In other words, the disciples did not consider themselves Judeans

His disciples say unto him, Master, the Jews of late sought to stone thee; and goest thou thither again? John 11:8
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,462
3,703
113
#7
Solomon did it all, and his final conclusion was to fear God and keep His commandments: "That’s the whole story. Here now is my final conclusion: Fear God and obey his commands, for this is everyone’s duty." Ecclesiastes 12:13
 

SilverFox7

Well-known member
Dec 24, 2022
709
450
63
Grand Rapids, Michigan
#8

Ecclesiastes 1:17-18 I set my mind to know wisdom and madness and folly; I learned that this, too, is a pursuit of the wind. For with much wisdom comes much sorrow, and as knowledge grows, grief increases.
:)
The "pursuit of the wind" is another way of expressing the "vanity" of life in separation from God. It's also described as "a chasing after the wind," "worthlessness," and "no profit under the sun."

The pastor I referenced who gave that great sermon about Ecclesiastes said God gives us two choices in essence: learn to live life through revelation and follow God's Word. Or, live life through experimentation and learn the hard way of the emptiness and sorrow of life apart from God's Word.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,592
30,608
113
#9
The "pursuit of the wind" is another way of expressing the "vanity" of life in separation from God. It's also described as "a chasing after the wind," "worthlessness," and "no profit under the sun."

The pastor I referenced who gave that great sermon about Ecclesiastes said God gives us two choices in essence: learn to live life through revelation and follow God's Word. Or, live life through experimentation and learn the hard way of the emptiness and sorrow of life apart from God's Word.
Oh how well I understand the pursuit of the wind since I was almost fifty before I converted,
I think quite a few here can also attest to having graduated from the school of hard knocks!

Happy New Year, Silver Fox! I hope you had a wonderfully warm and memorable time over the past season....
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,592
30,608
113
#10
Solomon did it all, and his final conclusion was to fear God and keep His commandments: "That’s the whole story.
Here now is my final conclusion: Fear God and obey his commands, for this is everyone’s duty."
Ecclesiastes 12:13

Galatians 5:14, Ecclesiastes 12:13, Romans 13:10b The entire law is fulfilled in a single decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” When all has been heard, the conclusion of the matter is this: Fear God and keep His commandments, because this is the whole duty of man. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
 
Oct 24, 2012
16,800
580
113
#11
I heard an excellent sermon a number of years ago that focused on the book of Ecclesiastes, and the pastor noted that James is an excellent complimentary epistle to Ecclesiastes. Both books fall within the category of "wisdom literature" with their short maxims that emphasize properly living a "righteous" and "prosperous" life in the flesh (Ecclesiastes) and in the Spirit (James).

Ecclesiastes was likely written by king Solomon later in his life. After succeeding his father, David, on the throne at a very young age, he started off down the right path by asking God for wisdom to govern the nation with a "discerning heart" to "distinguish between right and wrong" (I Kings 3: 9). God was pleased with this request and said, "...I will give you a wise and discerning heart, so that there will never have been anyone like you, nor will there ever be" (v. 12).

Solomon shares his wisdom through the book of Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Psalms 72 and 127 along with the Song of Solomon. Early on in his career, he built upon David's success and led Israel to the height of their physical power and prestige as a nation. Unfortunately, unlike his father, he fell into heavy idolatry, had wives and concubines from other nations, and neglected his relationship with God to the point that Solomon's salvation is questionable (e.g. he is excluded in the list of "heroes of faith" in Hebrews 11).

Solomon lived a life of experimentation. Rather than focusing on God like David did, Solomon pursued a life of leisure and pleasure, but he sums up the results right at the beginning of Ecclesiastes that he felt emptiness in that lifestyle:

Ecclesiastes 1:1-2

New King James Version

The Vanity of Life

1 The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.

2 “Vanity of vanities,” says the Preacher;
“Vanity of vanities, all is vanity.”

James on the other hand begins his letter much differently, emphasizing right up front that he is a servant of God, and life is far from "vanity" when we are living in Christ:

James 1

New King James Version

1 James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad:

Greetings.

2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials,

3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces [a]patience.

4 But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be [b]perfect and complete, lacking nothing.

I've been looking forward to tackling these two challenging texts for quite some time, yet I may have bitten off more than I can chew. But, with your help, I'm excited about gaining more "wisdom" hopefully through this study and fellowship with all of you.
W-ith
I-nsight
S-hown
D-ig
O-ut
M-ore

How do I reconcile works to do and not do, since it is done for me by Son for me, and all others as well?

What is James saying about Faith is dead without works?

Paul says Faith alone is the work, that it s not your work, it is God's done work Son for us all. We are today in the present given new life everlasting in God's Spirit and Truth, as those before the cross, (Mystery in being risen) now revealed in the risen Jesus for us
God Father only seeks God's Spirit and Truth, no flesh other than Son's pleased God, period, before, during and after the cross.
To me so do we not get that, as I know daily I am sussing that out, in awe buffeted from a messenger of satan, to keep me humble, anyone else?
There are works to do, yet what are the works to do?
Since no other flesh than Son's flesh pleases Father? And that is done at the cross
Might it be the done work of God through Son for us to do as led in love and mercy to do? By God the Holy Spirit doing it through you, not you anymore?
Eph 2 explains this to me. And even though Hebrews 11 does not mention Solomon, does that mean Solomon not in. When it states there are many more others to mention that walked by Faith, not mentioned there?
Can anyone imagine, to see if they were there in Spirit prison when Jesus was there telling them he, the Messiah has arrived and I conjecture Judas was there as a witness, even though he betrayed Jesus, Seeing it all worked out for the good of God for us all to be loved and respond in love back to all. Judas did his job called to do, as many people hate it, that Jesus was betrayed by Judas, not seeing that had to get done first as explained to the disciples in his resurrected life, being with them forty days, then ten days later Father the Holy Spirit came in and preached through them. They themselves did no work of their own at all, or did they? You decide I have I see it thanks to God Father of, in risen Son for me at least

Today is after the cross looking back to the cross, the dividing line of human history, as those before the cross were looking forward that are mentioned in Hebrews 11
We are given the mystery, Paul speaks on that in Ephesians. Also Speaks on contentment in all things good or bad that happen to us the people, all of us y'all
Believe by God Son is risen where new life is given free of charge for anymore work to do to get given to be let into the Kingdom

Well then what do the people do in their own flesh and blood, when God says the work is done for you?
It seems people, many are standing on rocky soil, saying you then are taking grace for granted, I do not see you doing what I think you should be doing this and that, Really y'all??? read Romans 14:1-4 please and see new, thank you
Are we that prideful in doing things, overlooking the Mercy given us?
See Luke 18:9-14 I am not proud anymore seeing talking of my doings are dung, and under Law that besets me to this day, being buffeted 2 Cor 12:7-10 I thank Father for
This is a fine line for me at least, I can only trust God whom I do not see physically.
Thanks, trusting to have helped your walk between God and you personally
 

SilverFox7

Well-known member
Dec 24, 2022
709
450
63
Grand Rapids, Michigan
#13
Oh how well I understand the pursuit of the wind since I was almost fifty before I converted,
I think quite a few here can also attest to having graduated from the school of hard knocks!


Happy New Year, Silver Fox! I hope you had a wonderfully warm and memorable time over the past season....
Happy New Year, Magenta - I'm enjoying time with family in Sarasota, Fla. and pray you've had a blessed holiday season as well!

My conversion took place when I was 21, but I certainly had my taste of living a rebellious and rough life as a teenager. Unfortunately, even after conversion, I still go to the "school of hard knocks" occasionally. That old fool within me just doesn't want to give up :D!
 

SilverFox7

Well-known member
Dec 24, 2022
709
450
63
Grand Rapids, Michigan
#14
I would say that's true for Judea, but not the rest of the land. Most who lived in the northern parts like Galilee were from other tribes. They referred to those who lived in Judea as Jews, which means Judean. In other words, the disciples did not consider themselves Judeans

His disciples say unto him, Master, the Jews of late sought to stone thee; and goest thou thither again? John 11:8
Good point. I think a lot of Samaritans lived in the northern part of Israel, too, and they were a mixed race with the Israelites.

Your idea got me thinking about what actually happened to the "lost ten tribes of Israel?" There is a lot of speculation because the details are scarce. Since the Medo-Babylonians conquered Assyria, it makes sense that some of the Israelite slaves were hauled off to Babylon as well and perhaps were reunited/reintegrated in with the Jews there. I have not seen any firm and credible documentation to support this, and I don't think there are many if any references in scripture either, but I would like to research this further.
 
Oct 24, 2012
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#15
Good point. I think a lot of Samaritans lived in the northern part of Israel, too, and they were a mixed race with the Israelites.

Your idea got me thinking about what actually happened to the "lost ten tribes of Israel?" There is a lot of speculation because the details are scarce. Since the Medo-Babylonians conquered Assyria, it makes sense that some of the Israelite slaves were hauled off to Babylon as well and perhaps were reunited/reintegrated in with the Jews there. I have not seen any firm and credible documentation to support this, and I don't think there are many if any references in scripture either, but I would like to research this further.
genealogy is endless, and IO think not worth it. seeing everything returns to being born after Adam and Eve, since the flood of Noah.
Thanks, yet is interesting to me as well also
 
Oct 24, 2012
16,800
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#16
Happy New Year, Magenta - I'm enjoying time with family in Sarasota, Fla. and pray you've had a blessed holiday season as well!

My conversion took place when I was 21, but I certainly had my taste of living a rebellious and rough life as a teenager. Unfortunately, even after conversion, I still go to the "school of hard knocks" occasionally. That old fool within me just doesn't want to give up :D!
I am discovering the old flesh can only get in through thought(s) getting in us, that I see are not mine, learning this discernment and seeing it, not fussing over it, knowing it is not me that does the sin anymore, it is the sin that dwells in my flesh accusing and excusing me, that keeps me under Law, that I can not do perfect ever
How to let go of thought(s) and how to discern whose thought(s) I am getting in my head, needing that helmet of salvation, Jesus the risen where new life as born new is given to stand in, as you sand I both know this as well and yet! Yes wow, woe is me too, I need God's grace that does not stop, and see to be satisfied in this grace given. blows my mind daily
I do not deserve top get or be given this new life given me, Yet God says, "I" Love You all. proven in risen Son to me at least, to see to rest in and not be caught up under Law anymore as flesh nature is
Daily dying to the first born selfishness that does not want to be dead, being in a body that does not obey, because of the control of evil that took over at the first Adam. Time for the second Adam Jesus the risen to lead, practice that, and it becomes habit, habit becomes character, then a trait as the old goes from trait to character to habit to practice to gone
Inversed through continued trust to God, leaving even thought in the dust. God puts on us the helmet, breastplate, belt and we equipped by God, not us as I have thought I got it, only to find out I do not only God does
Seeing to rest as said in Hebrews 4:9-13 still in process also
 
Nov 1, 2024
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#17
Good point. I think a lot of Samaritans lived in the northern part of Israel, too, and they were a mixed race with the Israelites.
I think Samaritans were like those Jews today whose ancestors were converts to Judaism, yet they believe they are descended from Abraham. Samaritans originally were virtually all imports from other regions of the Assyrian empire after virtually all Israelites were exiled to other parts of that empire. Then a priest was sent to Samaria to teach them how to appease the God of the land. After a few generations they believed they were the children of Israel and called themselves "Sons of Israel, Keepers of the Truth of the Torah"

And the king of Assyria brought men from Babylon, and from Cuthah, and from Ava, and from Hamath, and from Sepharvaim, and placed them in the cities of Samaria instead of the children of Israel: and they possessed Samaria, and dwelt in the cities thereof. And so it was at the beginning of their dwelling there, that they feared not the LORD: therefore the LORD sent lions among them, which slew some of them. Wherefore they spake to the king of Assyria, saying, The nations which thou hast removed, and placed in the cities of Samaria, know not the manner of the God of the land: therefore he hath sent lions among them, and, behold, they slay them, because they know not the manner of the God of the land. Then the king of Assyria commanded, saying, Carry thither one of the priests whom ye brought from thence; and let them go and dwell there, and let him teach them the manner of the God of the land. Then one of the priests whom they had carried away from Samaria came and dwelt in Bethel, and taught them how they should fear the LORD. 2 Kings 17:24-28