Why do some people believe and some do not?

Where does scripture state he cannot obey the commandment?

Mankind’s inability to submit to God’s law does not prove their inability to trust in Christ who fulfilled the law for mankind.
Mankind’s inability to please God while acting in the flesh does not prove mankind’s inability to respond to the spiritual appeal of God through the Gospel so as to receive salvation.
The gospel IS God’s spiritual and gracious means. Faith comes by hearing!

To teach this concept of pre-faith regeneration or special enabling (prevenient grace) means that God (for some unknown reason) decided to punish all of us for the sin of Adam by making us all innately incapable of responding willingly (from birth mind you)
to His own word unless He actively did something to make us able again.

Does that make any rational sense if viewed objectively?

I wait for that verse that states the above clearly. You will not find it because it does not exist.

You can find all manner of descriptions of the fallen man but you have no link, no clearly stated scripture that teaches man is born unable respond to positively to the Gospel message.


What you doing is making a theological incorrect deduction which is made in spite of overwhelming verses which state the opposite.

John 20:31
“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”

Spiritual life comes through a person exercising faith IN Christ Jesus, not the other way around.

How? Could you explain how those verses teach ALL would believe?

Hmm...... Boy! You're pretty smart to have unlocked the mystery of Salvation with your brain!

5, "I"s.

Wonder where else it was written about an entity using 5 "I" s?

Did GOD close the eyes and understanding of the Jews or not?

Scripture explicitly says He did.

So if God did that, and He inarguably did, how could they choose to believe?

You can buy the premise or deny the premise..Your choice.

• Men's capacity to hear and learn and believe was created by God. So, in reality all comes from God - existence itself.
• The Faith a.k.a. as the Good News about His Son, Jesus is His Christ came from God.
• Since God is the source of existence, intellect, the Gospel, the only plan of salvation, the sender of His Son, etc., why would a man boast about becoming convinced to believe, repent (turn to God)?
• Thinking one is better than another for choosing to believe seems an empty charge (there again something one hears from some with Calvinistic leanings).

OK. Just a suggestion.

Did GOD close the eyes and understanding of the Jews or not?

Scripture explicitly says He did.

So if God did that, and He inarguably did, how could they choose to believe?

I will just make one post here.

The one with the serious problem is you in that you have no idea what Paul meant when he said the following.

Rom 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Prior to saying that, Paul said this;

Rom 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15
For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16
If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17
Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19
For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20
Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22
For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Contextually, which means absolutely nothing to several of you, Paul was talking about his condition prior to exercising saving faith in Christ, or he was talking about his condition as an unregenerate man. Even when he was unsaved, HIS WILL WAS TO DO GOOD, HE DELIGHTED IN THE LAW OF GOD IN HIS INWARD MAN, AND HE SOUGHT TO SERVE THE LAW OF GOD WITH HIS MIND, but he could not, and NOT "he would not," keep it because the law is spiritual, and as an unregenerate man, Paul only had a fleshly circumcision which gave him no power to keep a spiritual law. However, after embracing Christ, Paul was circumcised in his heart or in his spirit, and he could now obey God through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit. In other words, Paul clearly had a FREE WILL prior to his conversion, but he simply lacked the inner power to do that which HE WILLED TO DO. In this sense, and in this sense alone, his carnal mind was not subject to the law of God. Again, HIS WILL WAS TO DO GOOD, HE DELIGHTED IN THE LAW OF GOD IN HIS INNER MAN, AND HE SOUGHT TO SERVE THE LAW OF GOD WITH HIS MIND, but he lacked the spiritual power to do so because he was yet unregenerate at that time.

All this nonsense about a "freed will," as opposed to a "free will," is just that.

NONSENSE!

You people need to give it a rest. You are repeatedly wresting scripture, and you will give an account of it one day before God. I would repent if I were you.

Men's capacity to hear and learn and believe was created by God. So, in reality all comes from God - existence itself.

Men's capacity to hear and learn and believe was created by God. So, in reality all comes from God - existence itself.

Back up to the beginning of Rom11 and see that Paul is discussing in part God's remnant who bowed a knee to Baal vs. many who obviously did not.

Let us clarify is this "capacity" activated by God only for some?

#1: Is fallen man's nature such that he is born unable to respond affirmatively to the life giving words and truth inherent in the Gospel
message unless God acts on him/her first or

#2 ............are you stating all mankind is born with this capacity to respond affirmatively to the God's written words of life?

........God only really loved the elect enough to save them,
-that Jesus only died for the elect,
-that salvation is only truly offered to the elect,
-that God is the ultimate (and essentially only) cause of sin, evil, and unbelief because he created man to be that way after the fall (but He punishes the non elect even though they were never offered redemption) for His good pleasure I might add
-that no one can believe IN Christ Jesus unless and until God gives or makes them (depending how forthright they are) do it.

This doctrine sucks

I've reformatted your message.

As I read Scripture, fallen man originally created in God's likeness has retained the capacity to accept and retain what all men know of God (Rom1) and to hear & learn and believe God's message about His Son that He's teaching to draw men to His Son Jesus His Christ. So,

#1: No and Yes.

• No, fallen man is not born unable (at a point of temporal growth) to respond affirmatively.
• Yes, God must act first, meaning, teach His Gospel of Salvation and Eternal Life in Christ in Spirit. And before that, make Himself known per Rom1. In between I think many things go on in the lives of men to prepare them to believe/obey Him. But those many things are not what the typical so-called Calvinist positions are.

#2: Yes. Now written and spoken words of life. Originally spoken then written.

Are you kidding me right now....? "We are born not knowing good or evil"

Do you know the doctrine of Original Sin?? I suggest looking it up sooner then later my brother.

Jeremiah 17:9 plus John 3:19-20
Of course the free willing nay sayers will once again desire to heartily disagree, even though Jesus said there are none good
but God alone, but even despite this, they want to believe man is essentially good while the Bible says they are darkness.
The heart is beyond cure and cannot be understood, go ahead and tell us how this is taken out of context and misunderstood.
Of course God understands the human heart, He understands it very well and its condition is clearly laid out in Scripture.
He is more than capable of healing it.

Great list. This is evident. They are very sneaky in the way they present themselves. You can listen to John MacArthur and he wont even sound like a calvinist, UNTIL you learn to listen.

One tip to spotting these guys is, if you listen to them preach they will phrase things like this: "Christ died for all who would repent and believe on Him"
Its very subtle and you may even read that and say "Yeah sure, whats wrong with that?" Well the reason they say it like that is cause they believe in Limited atonement, Christ only died for some people. Its the weakest link of the TULIP and easiest to disprove, verse after verse of explicit passages talking about Christ dying for "all, everyone, every man, the world" and if all these are a reference to the elect then are the false teachers/prophets also elect? Because Peter said Christ died for even the false prophets!

The part I highlighted in red in your message is the one that tilts me the most. Its just so wicked and satanic to attribute everything evil to God, WHILST claiming they arent doing it. Try reading the westminster confession, they speak out of both sides of their mouths.

This doctrine sucks