The problem of the statement of “never saved to begin with”
- Thread starter Believer08
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I did not give a complete response to your statement. Here we go.
I do not understand how you can argue that "born" means "conceive". There is no justification in God's word. Your reasoning is specious. It is just as easy to die after birth as it is to die beforehand. If God had wanted us to believe that the new birth was the end and not the beginning, He would have said "conceive". God takes His word very seriously. He says what He means and means what He says.
I do not understand how you can argue that "born" means "conceive". There is no justification in God's word. Your reasoning is specious. It is just as easy to die after birth as it is to die beforehand. If God had wanted us to believe that the new birth was the end and not the beginning, He would have said "conceive". God takes His word very seriously. He says what He means and means what He says.
-
1
- Show all
1. The Bible doesn't teach future sin is automatically forgiven, as can be seen from the story of Ananias and Sapphira and from the book of John where if we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive them. Not automatic, otherwise that verse would not exist. But despite this, if its a yes or no question i will answer YES. Because IF we do confess those sins, God IS indeed faithful to forgive those future sins we havent even commited yet.
2. The exact amount is: When you lose faith. That is how much. Its different for each person I would assume, but the people who sin against their conscience to the point where it gets seared and they run off into the world and NEVER COME BACK, remain in unbelief and die in that state, they have apostasized and have trodden under the blood of the son of God, by which. they were sanctified.
2. The exact amount is: When you lose faith. That is how much. Its different for each person I would assume, but the people who sin against their conscience to the point where it gets seared and they run off into the world and NEVER COME BACK, remain in unbelief and die in that state, they have apostasized and have trodden under the blood of the son of God, by which. they were sanctified.
-
1
- Show all
It's simple. Any person who believes they can lose salvation in any way.......HAVE DEPARTED FROM THE FAITH.
Saved. But as through fire. There is no condemnation in THE FAITH. One will never perish in THE FAITH. One has eternal life in THE FAITH.
Those who are NOT in THE FAITH have condemnation, perishing and "possible" eternal life in their faith.
Saved. But as through fire. There is no condemnation in THE FAITH. One will never perish in THE FAITH. One has eternal life in THE FAITH.
Those who are NOT in THE FAITH have condemnation, perishing and "possible" eternal life in their faith.
That would be ridicilous and you always bring this up. Ive seen this so many times, I really dont know how to respond to this.
So you cant just pray to God "Im sorry for ALL my sins, forgive me Father"? YOu have to just remember and individually confess every sin? Where do you guys come up with this stuff?
I feel like this has to be done on purpose, there is no way anyone actually thinks this way. This is either a bad debate strategy or just being mean
So you cant just pray to God "Im sorry for ALL my sins, forgive me Father"? YOu have to just remember and individually confess every sin? Where do you guys come up with this stuff?
I feel like this has to be done on purpose, there is no way anyone actually thinks this way. This is either a bad debate strategy or just being mean
Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is the salvation issue.
Confessing sin to GOD Is a fellowship issue.
There is nothing about feeling 'sorry' or 'paying' for it. Acknowledge it, name and site it.....And He is faithful and just to forgive us( Bring us back to fellowship.) AND He forgives us of ALL unrighteousness(all unknown sin and human good.)
Saved and always saved. Fellowship takes work.
Confessing sin to GOD Is a fellowship issue.
There is nothing about feeling 'sorry' or 'paying' for it. Acknowledge it, name and site it.....And He is faithful and just to forgive us( Bring us back to fellowship.) AND He forgives us of ALL unrighteousness(all unknown sin and human good.)
Saved and always saved. Fellowship takes work.
-
1
- Show all
This is just a hypothetical conversation in your head. It's not even teaching anything. To be honest it sounds like you're saying there is no way to know if we are saved. It's just not true. I was exactly what you're describing here. I was like this, saw things exactly how you see them now, when I wasn't really saved and only thought I was because I repeated a prayer and a pastor said I was. I could only hold this view before I knew the power of God after He resurrected my dead spirit and reconciled it to His in real life. So again I testify to you that you can only falsely believe you are saved, when you are lost. We can't "mistake" being born-again, it just isn't possible. This fake conversation could only take place if the person was never saved, so it is true. The fact you don't seem to "get this" is kind of worrying to me. The things of the Spirit are foolishness to those who are perishing. Look I'm nobody, I'm not trying to tell you about your relationship with God, but I have been this hypothetical person before and can now tell you that when the power of the true God transforms you in truth, in real life, there's no walking away, you can't be spiritually "unborn", or decide you no longer "believe" in someone you've met firsthand. I can no more pretend Jesus doesn't exist as I can any human being I've met in real life. It just doesn't work that way.
If what I'm saying still doesn't make sense to you then just keep on seeking Him, there's so much more and the rabbit hole is endless. I apologize if I came across to mean or anything, but I just like to get straight to the matter.
If what I'm saying still doesn't make sense to you then just keep on seeking Him, there's so much more and the rabbit hole is endless. I apologize if I came across to mean or anything, but I just like to get straight to the matter.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
All who have commented on my post who are OSAS’ers, if you are saying one was never saved, then the same must also apply to you, or else you’re not consistent in your belief. I think you are making my point. Thanks. There is absolutely no security in OSAS. My work here is done.
This quote is attributed to John Wesley:
“Calvinists, who deny that salvation can ever be lost, reason on the subject in a marvelous way. They tell us, that no virgin’s lamp can go out; no promising harvest be choked with thorns; no branch in Christ can ever be cut off from unfruitfulness; no pardon can ever be forfeited, and no name blotted out of God’s book! They insist that no salt can ever lose its savor; nobody can ever “receive the grace of God in vain”; “bury his talents”; “neglect such great salvation”; trifle away “a day of grace”; “look back” after putting his hand to the gospel plow. Nobody can “grieve the Spirit” till He is “quenched,” and strives no more, nor “deny the Lord that bought them”; nor “bring upon themselves swift destruction.” Nobody, or body of believers, can ever get so lukewarm that Jesus will spew them out of His mouth. They use reams of paper to argue that if one ever got lost he was never found. John 17:12; that if one falls, he never stood. Rom. 11:16-22 and Heb. 6:4-6; if one was ever “cast forth,” he was never in, and “if one ever withered,” he was never green. John 15:1-6; and that “if any man draws back,” it proves that he never had anything to draw back from. Heb. 10:38,39; that if one ever “falls away into spiritual darkness,” he was never enlightened. Heb 6:4-6; that if you “again get entangled in the pollutions of the world,” it shows that you never escaped. 2 Pet 2:20; that if you “put salvation away” you never had it to put away, and if you make shipwreck of faith, there was no ship of faith there!! In short they say: If you get it, you can’t lose it; and if you lose it you never had it. May God save us from accepting a doctrine, that must be defended by such fallacious reasoning!”
This quote is attributed to John Wesley:
“Calvinists, who deny that salvation can ever be lost, reason on the subject in a marvelous way. They tell us, that no virgin’s lamp can go out; no promising harvest be choked with thorns; no branch in Christ can ever be cut off from unfruitfulness; no pardon can ever be forfeited, and no name blotted out of God’s book! They insist that no salt can ever lose its savor; nobody can ever “receive the grace of God in vain”; “bury his talents”; “neglect such great salvation”; trifle away “a day of grace”; “look back” after putting his hand to the gospel plow. Nobody can “grieve the Spirit” till He is “quenched,” and strives no more, nor “deny the Lord that bought them”; nor “bring upon themselves swift destruction.” Nobody, or body of believers, can ever get so lukewarm that Jesus will spew them out of His mouth. They use reams of paper to argue that if one ever got lost he was never found. John 17:12; that if one falls, he never stood. Rom. 11:16-22 and Heb. 6:4-6; if one was ever “cast forth,” he was never in, and “if one ever withered,” he was never green. John 15:1-6; and that “if any man draws back,” it proves that he never had anything to draw back from. Heb. 10:38,39; that if one ever “falls away into spiritual darkness,” he was never enlightened. Heb 6:4-6; that if you “again get entangled in the pollutions of the world,” it shows that you never escaped. 2 Pet 2:20; that if you “put salvation away” you never had it to put away, and if you make shipwreck of faith, there was no ship of faith there!! In short they say: If you get it, you can’t lose it; and if you lose it you never had it. May God save us from accepting a doctrine, that must be defended by such fallacious reasoning!”
hmmm...
is comfort level the litmus test?
remember the pharisees, how that they fully believed themselves saved by their works, and their descendency as Hebrews.
Jesus Christ strongly contradicted their presumptions. how comforting is that?
did your objection arise when you learned of them? or did you conceive this from some other angle?
is comfort level the litmus test?
remember the pharisees, how that they fully believed themselves saved by their works, and their descendency as Hebrews.
Jesus Christ strongly contradicted their presumptions. how comforting is that?
did your objection arise when you learned of them? or did you conceive this from some other angle?
-
1
- Show all
OK sure i'll be like you. that's what you want.
comfortless, without any assurance at all, hopeless, faithless, fearing every moment God is incapable and my works have some unseen error in them. unbelieving, on the precipice of damnation every second, trying spastically to earn my way into heaven by faking righteous behavior. praying no one notices all my naked failure.
smh
is the gospel really so hard to comprehend?
((OK reads on...))
comfortless, without any assurance at all, hopeless, faithless, fearing every moment God is incapable and my works have some unseen error in them. unbelieving, on the precipice of damnation every second, trying spastically to earn my way into heaven by faking righteous behavior. praying no one notices all my naked failure.
smh
is the gospel really so hard to comprehend?
((OK reads on...))
-
1
- Show all