Obedience is not legalism

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Believer08

Active member
Jan 27, 2025
621
173
43
#1
It is crucial to realize that pursuing holiness and trying to live in accordance with God's Word is a response to God's love and grace, not legalism. Grace is a gift from God that is accessed by faith (Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 5:2). When one has faith, they want to live a life that honors God and is consistent with His teachings. 1 Peter 1:15–16 exhorts us to be holy. Seeking holiness is about loving God and being thankful, not about earning salvation.

A saving faith will not be dead, as it will be a faith that works/obeys (Jms. 2:14-26). Our obedience demonstrate our love and devotion to God, as we desire to live according to His word (Jn. 8:31, 14:15, 23-24). Obedience does not earn or negate grace. Following God's word is a result of your relationship with Him, not earning salvation. God’s grace instructs us to live for Him (Titus 2:11-12; Rom. 6:1) and when we obey God, He is working in us, (Phil. 2:12-13), as those are His words that are in our lives working, not ours. God’s grace is the source of our spiritual growth and obedience. Our relationship with God begins and is sustained by His grace through our faith (Eph. 2:8; 1 Peter 1:5). It is His grace that instructs us to align our will with His will. This is how we grow in the grace of our Lord and Savior (2 Peter 3:18, 1:5-11), and continue in it (Acts 13:43).

God’s saving grace calls us to repentance (2 Peter 3:9) and restoration (Jms. 5:19-20). By following God's commands, we become more Christ-like and strengthen our bond with Him (2 Peter 1:5-8). Our obedience stems from a heart of love and gratitude. It's a reflection of our faith and trust in Him, and His grace enables us to live a life that honors Him.
 
K

keepingthingsreal

Guest
#2
Rom 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Heb 12:28
Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
Heb 12:29
For our God is a consuming fire.

Tit 2:11
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Tit 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Tit 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Tit 2:15
These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
26,159
14,131
113
#3
It is crucial to realize that pursuing holiness and trying to live in accordance with God's Word is a response to God's love and grace, not legalism.
Correct. Legalism is when you attempt to impose your (mis?)understanding onto another person such that they obey as you think they should. This is often done by telling people they must follow the Law as given through Moses.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
8,038
3,172
113
#4
A saving faith will not be dead, as it will be a faith that works/obeys (Jms. 2:14-26).
Dead faith does not mean non-existent.
As well, true obedience can only exist within eternal security/saved not outside of it.
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,905
664
113
#5
me.. I would have worded it a tad diff "Obedience is not legalism and here is why I believe this". Praise GOD we work out our own salvation. Christ said to them almost 3 years later if you love me keep my words. Yeah.. even at the start of all this when they came back rejoicing demons had to obey them (odd where's that today?.. just what do we believe any more) He said don't rejoice they are subject unto you but that your names are written in heaven. Saved yes.. but at some point we get to know Him.. hard to love someone you don't know never met.

So thank you for sharing what you personally believe.
 

Believer08

Active member
Jan 27, 2025
621
173
43
#6
thank you for sharing what you personally believe.
It’s not what I personally believe. It’s what the Bible teaches and I provided plenty of scripture to back it up. You’re more than welcome to refute what all I write if you want, but doing so will be saying the Bible contradicts itself, which it does not. Thanks for your personal opinion.
 

Believer08

Active member
Jan 27, 2025
621
173
43
#8
Legalism is when you attempt to impose your (mis?)understanding onto another person such that they obey as you think they should
Then if that’s is the case we all are guilty of legalism. I guess your post would be legalism as well, as it’s attempting to impose your (mis?)understanding of my post onto another person such that they obey as you think they should. Specifically, what legalism is.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
8,038
3,172
113
#9
A dead faith is a faith that does not obey.
A dead faith as understood by those to whom the letter was written was a faith not in use/not operational.
Does not obey what exactly?
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,922
3,620
113
Frankston, Victoria
christianlife.au
#10
It is crucial to realize that pursuing holiness and trying to live in accordance with God's Word is a response to God's love and grace, not legalism. Grace is a gift from God that is accessed by faith (Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 5:2). When one has faith, they want to live a life that honors God and is consistent with His teachings. 1 Peter 1:15–16 exhorts us to be holy. Seeking holiness is about loving God and being thankful, not about earning salvation.

A saving faith will not be dead, as it will be a faith that works/obeys (Jms. 2:14-26). Our obedience demonstrate our love and devotion to God, as we desire to live according to His word (Jn. 8:31, 14:15, 23-24). Obedience does not earn or negate grace. Following God's word is a result of your relationship with Him, not earning salvation. God’s grace instructs us to live for Him (Titus 2:11-12; Rom. 6:1) and when we obey God, He is working in us, (Phil. 2:12-13), as those are His words that are in our lives working, not ours. God’s grace is the source of our spiritual growth and obedience. Our relationship with God begins and is sustained by His grace through our faith (Eph. 2:8; 1 Peter 1:5). It is His grace that instructs us to align our will with His will. This is how we grow in the grace of our Lord and Savior (2 Peter 3:18, 1:5-11), and continue in it (Acts 13:43).

God’s saving grace calls us to repentance (2 Peter 3:9) and restoration (Jms. 5:19-20). By following God's commands, we become more Christ-like and strengthen our bond with Him (2 Peter 1:5-8). Our obedience stems from a heart of love and gratitude. It's a reflection of our faith and trust in Him, and His grace enables us to live a life that honors Him.
Depends on what you are obeying. If it is slavish obedience to a set of rules, then it is no better than legalism. Jesus is Lord, not the Bible. We should be following Him as He leads.

Jesus did not save us so that we could obey the law. He saved us so that we could have new life. (John 10:10). Our obedience is to a Person, not a set of rules. Ezekiel spoke of this. We need a new heart and the infilling of the Holy Spirit. As we are led by the Spirit, we will be obeying Lord Jesus.

The Law is the shadow. Jesus is the reality. "Take up your cross and follow me," He said. You can obey all the rules and still not be obedient to Jesus. The rich young ruler was law abiding, but that was not enough. "Sell all you have". He could not let go of his riches. Some Christians are self-satisfied. They will not give up the "riches" of their own self will. So they revert to outward obedience to rules. Those willing to lose the most are those who gain the most. Self has to move out, so to speak, so that Christ can move in. Two objects cannot occupy the same place. Either Jesus is on the throne or we are. We get to choose. I discovered what Jesus plans for me is far better than anything I could work out for myself. Hopefully, everyone here has the same attitude.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
26,159
14,131
113
#11
Then if that’s is the case we all are guilty of legalism. I guess your post would be legalism as well, as it’s attempting to impose your (mis?)understanding of my post onto another person such that they obey as you think they should. Specifically, what legalism is.
Explaining a term is a far cry from trying to get anyone else to do something or obey some precept.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
17,556
746
113
#12
It is crucial to realize that pursuing holiness and trying to live in accordance with God's Word is a response to God's love and grace, not legalism. Grace is a gift from God that is accessed by faith (Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 5:2). When one has faith, they want to live a life that honors God and is consistent with His teachings. 1 Peter 1:15–16 exhorts us to be holy. Seeking holiness is about loving God and being thankful, not about earning salvation.

A saving faith will not be dead, as it will be a faith that works/obeys (Jms. 2:14-26). Our obedience demonstrate our love and devotion to God, as we desire to live according to His word (Jn. 8:31, 14:15, 23-24). Obedience does not earn or negate grace. Following God's word is a result of your relationship with Him, not earning salvation. God’s grace instructs us to live for Him (Titus 2:11-12; Rom. 6:1) and when we obey God, He is working in us, (Phil. 2:12-13), as those are His words that are in our lives working, not ours. God’s grace is the source of our spiritual growth and obedience. Our relationship with God begins and is sustained by His grace through our faith (Eph. 2:8; 1 Peter 1:5). It is His grace that instructs us to align our will with His will. This is how we grow in the grace of our Lord and Savior (2 Peter 3:18, 1:5-11), and continue in it (Acts 13:43).

God’s saving grace calls us to repentance (2 Peter 3:9) and restoration (Jms. 5:19-20). By following God's commands, we become more Christ-like and strengthen our bond with Him (2 Peter 1:5-8). Our obedience stems from a heart of love and gratitude. It's a reflection of our faith and trust in Him, and His grace enables us to live a life that honors Him.
Checking me, am I willingly doing, or am I forcing me to do it right. Am I gaining approval of others over God, I domino care to sit in Moses' seat anyone else?
Thanks for your post
When you help another person, do you do it, because you have to, or you choose to?
Thank you
 

Hakawaka

Well-known member
Jul 1, 2021
489
288
63
#13
Dead faith does not mean non-existent.
As well, true obedience can only exist within eternal security/saved not outside of it.
Are you gonna be the second person in history to admit you claim dead faith saves? I heard Steven Anderson make this point once. "HEY, A DEAD DAWG EXISTS; THEREFORE DEAD FAITH ALSO EXISTS, AND STILL SAVES!!!"
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
8,038
3,172
113
#14
Are you gonna be the second person in history to admit you claim dead faith saves? I heard Steven Anderson make this point once. "HEY, A DEAD DAWG EXISTS; THEREFORE DEAD FAITH ALSO EXISTS, AND STILL SAVES!!!"
Have you defined "dead
faith?

I am asking because I do not remember?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
63,387
32,076
113
#16

John 15:5c; Philippians 2:13 Apart from Me you can do nothing. For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
8,038
3,172
113
#17
I would define it as James does. A faith with no works. Faith that produces nothing. A worthless faith.
Is James saying it is worthless for spiritual salvation?
 

Believer08

Active member
Jan 27, 2025
621
173
43
#18

John 15:5c; Philippians 2:13 Apart from Me you can do nothing. For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose.
Agreed! Apart from Christ we can’t bear any spiritual fruit for the purpose of glorifying God, from being in a relationship with Jesus, all of which has an impact on our eternal life! The motivation and desire to bear spiritual fruit is rooted in Christ and is wanting to give God the glory and allow His light to shine. This is a different motivation than what the world does as when they do good deeds. Without Christ, we cannot live as faithful Christians, by bearing Christlike spiritual fruit.

It can also be that without Christ, the apostles would not be able to do the things they were to do, such as the miracles.
 

PAC-fit

Active member
Sep 20, 2018
468
182
43
#19
Our obedience stems from a heart of love and gratitude. It's a reflection of our faith and trust in Him, and His grace enables us to live a life that honors Him.
A point that sometimes, isn't at all easy to attain for a young convert who has just encountered a life changing event, all of a sudden be told,
Grace is a gift from God that is accessed by faith (Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 5:2). When one has faith, they want to live a life that honors God and is consistent with His teachings.
That joyous brother/sister that the Apostle was careful to ''neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.'' (Rm14:21) Esp. prevalent for those who are not being discipled. My apologies if off topic.
 

Believer08

Active member
Jan 27, 2025
621
173
43
#20
A point that sometimes, isn't at all easy to attain for a young convert who has just encountered a life changing event, all of a sudden be told,
That’s why it’s about growing.