I would like some perspectives on Revelation.

You're proposing works based salvation. It doesn't work that way.

Without work there's no overcoming sin and the world, and without that there's no salvation

Keep working. It'll never be enough.

The Book of Revelation is first and foremost a format laid out into sections of events going to happen.

It begins with Jesus showing the Apostle John the current problems with the Asia Minor Churches set up by the Apostle Paul. Then it serves as a reminder to how many of the Last Days End Times Churches will be struggling with. And it also serves as a spiritual timeline.

Then we are given insight to the Heavenly Throne Room on several occasions as prophecy plays out including the final Judgement.

We also see the dispensation of events that we are able to match to the warnings given by Jesus when He was on earth concerning the Tribulation. But in Revelation we're allowed to see more specifics to the system and Beast first introduced in the Book of Daniel.

We also have a complete timeline of the fall of Satan, the prophetic dreams of Joseph, and the war waged to stop the fulfillment of when Christ came as the Messiah. And we see portions of Tribulation and the Great Whore of Babylon.

We're also given the format of the Jews coming to Yeshua, the insight to the beheaded, and war upon the Saints. This is interweaved with the Vials and Trumpets of Wrath.

Ultimately, we see God's Victory and Glory and His Reign as King of kings and Lord of lords.

We also have a stark reminder about the fate of those who opposed God and for those who are God's Own.

There's much to gain and glean from the Book of Revelation.

Wanna bet? A door into heaven will be opened wide for those striving to enter by the narrow gate

The Bible is very clear, that salvation is not "works based" ... It is by the free gift of God, Grace, which is Love. Because God graciously first Loved us, by giving us His son, to pay the price for our sin, [Prophecy-Gen3:15] Giving us another chance, since Eden, to Love Him back, by being obedient children, and keeping His Covenant, His Commandments, "If you Love Me, Keep my Commandments" [John14:15] Exo 20, Deut.5, Matt22:37-40, Romans7:12, 1 John2:7 ETC. … "And this is love, that we walk after his commandments ..." 2Jn_1:6

So ?… How can any one of us, think that we don't have to keep covenant with God, to be considered children of God, His chosen people, to inherit His Kingdom ? ... if we don't repent of our sin and be born again, into a newness of spirit, … by Faith, into Christ’s righteousness. "The just shall live by Faith" !! ... and "As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also" James 2:26

... We become sanctified Christians by our fruit, what we say and do in life, bearing fruit by Love for God and our neighbors, ...[Mark 12:29,30] ... being watered by the Holy Spirit, to the Righteousness of Christ ... having "oil in our lamps" in the parable of the 10 virgins [Matt 25: 1-13]

To inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, we must accept Jesus as our Savior AND King. We must believe Him [John 3:16] as such … and become Israel, His chosen people. Like Jacob, became Israel, by a spiritual struggling with God, "contending with God" and "overcoming" [Paul] to be God's Church here in the World.

Jesus was very clear, that He came to do the Will of The Father, keeping covenant with God, to be The Savior, and so must we, to be "His chosen people" ... In the 70 Week prophecy of Daniel 9, in verse :27, ... Jesus, "confirms the covenant" becoming our Savior and King.

… and by the Grace of God, we follow Him, to become His Body, the Church, if we want to inherit everlasting life. "For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit" (1 Corinthians 12:12-13).

Romans 12:4-5, "For as in one body we have many members, and all the members do not have the same function, so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another."

SO ! Here we are at the "End of Day" .. Right before the soon coming of our Lord Jesus, to claim us, His Church, ...

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

"How long will you hesitate between two opinions? If the Lord is God, follow Him; but if Baal, follow him." –1 Kings 18:21
"But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." Joshua 24:15,

... Following Jesus ... Blessings Folks

lrs68 ... I appreciate your generalized summary of the Book of Revelation, as I've been quite interested in the Books of Daniel & Revelation relationship as well.

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to show to his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel to his servant John." Rev 1:1 = Awesome !!!

Yes ! Such a blessing, for Jesus to give us a "heads up" for these last 2000 years of events, from John's time, till Christ's Second Coming, thru symbols & signs, = "Prophecy" ... and of "shadows & types".

For example, how Jesus, speaking to the 7 churches of John's time, describing their spiritual characteristic's IS ALSO a shadow of the character/ type of this last day church, ... Jesus speaking to the 7 church "ages" or "dispensations" of Christ's church, in this "stream of time" .. as prophecy unfolds, ... for we the church, down through time, these last 2000 years ... Daniel's 1260 year and 2300 year prophecies, playing out since John's time. ... ETC. ... To where, here WE are ... the last church, with these dismal characteristics, just before the Lord soon return. Just as it was in the Days of Noah (Matthew 24:37-39) ... as well as it was, just before His First Coming (Luke 11:42 & Matt 23)... Shame on our pride, hypocrisy and un-righteousness … again :-(

The Church of Laodicea, ... being;

Rev 3:16 So then because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because you say, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and know not that you are wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel you to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that you may be rich; and white raiment, that you may be clothed, and that the shame of your nakedness do not appear; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

The more I study this book, the more I realize how truthful , Jesus' statements are about us, His Church, ... "Sadly YuP ! That's me !". And because of this declaration of our character, and what it means to Jesus, it makes me aware of my short comings, to be like Christ, to be to repent and be obedient, fruitful, not being lukewarm, but zealous, .... more accurately representing the Righteousness of Christ, to the world, ... Lovingly, following Him, ... my Lord & Savior Jesus ... I pray, ... Amen !

Question though lrs68 ?

You said, "We're also given the format of the Jews coming to Yeshua," ... I'm not familiar with this "format" being in Revelations.. The present day Jews aren't mentioned in this Book, (except Rev 2:9 as being the "synagogue of Satan".) ... since being disowned as the "Chosen People", and being dissolved back into the world, when Christ said, " Your house is left to you, desolate" (Matt 23:38) ... because of their rejection of Him. ... What "format" are you referring to, please ?

Bingo
Trying to equate the emotion of a dream to God's word is appalling.
Rev is both literal and allegory.
The woman on the beast is 100% allegory with Jesus saying what it means.
Jesus taking the scroll from the Father on the throne is 100% literal

Jesus said at his coming is normal life , commerce , andveveryday life.
There will never be a nuclear exchange or destroyed earth at his coming.

Thanks for your question asking whether the book of Revelation is literal or something else. The Bible is called God's 'law' in the Bible. Psalm 119 uses the term interchangeably with the terms 'testimonies', 'precepts', 'statutes', 'commandments', and 'judgements'. In this Psalm, we get the verse: "Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law. "

Yet, what form does the law, which is the Bible, take? We read in Psalm 78 about this: "Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth. I will open my mouth in a parable". Now that is interesting because God is calling his law, the Bible, a parable. Not only that, he calls it a single parable. That means it is not just the parts of the Bible that denominations have traditionally called parables, which would be a plural reference. Rather, he seems to be calling the whole Bible a parable. Is the Bible to be interpreted as a surface straightforward text, then, or as a parable rather?

Well, let's go the Mark 4, where Jesus explains how to interpret a parable: "And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine ". In Mark 4, Jesus explains that a sower went out to sow. But, rather than being physical seeds like sunflower seeds or blackberry seeds, Jesus gives the interpretation that the sower is really sowing the word of God. He goes on to explain that while the surface story seems to talk about physical things, the reality is that these things represent something spiritual. 'Thorns' in the surface story are not talking about physical briers, but rather mean something spiritual, and refer to: "such as hear the word, And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful. " Likewise, 'good ground' is referring not to a bunch of physical dirt, but rather to: "such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred. ".

This way of interpreting the surface text of the Bible holds true for the entire Bible, including the book of Revelation. That is why Mark 4 tells us that : "But without a parable spake he not unto them ". In other words, the whole Bible is Jesus speaking a parable. A parable is an earthly story representing, in reality, a spiritual truth.

In Revelation, we read about Jesus on a white horse with a sword sticking out of his mouth. Do we take this as a surface story and understand that a metal sword is protruding from Jesus' mouth, or do we interpret this as a parable to mean that the word of God is coming forth? Do we think of the white horse as being a physical horse, or do we think of the horse as being a picture of Jerusalem, the people of God? In other parts of the Bible, do we think of Joshua as being just a surface story of physical conquering? Or, do we think of Joshua as being a picture of Jesus, who wins all spiritual battles and takes his people to the other side of the river of judgment unharmed and saved?

The Books of Daniel, Thessalonians, and Revelation are in sync about the Man of Sin/Antichrist/Beast being in the physical Temple and proclaiming to be God. But he then offers a unholy sacrifice and makes War on the Jews. Up to that point the Jews believe this evil thing is their coming Messiah. But when the prophecy happens in the Temple the Jews realize that Jesus was their Messiah all along and will begin calling out to Him.

Except the bible doesn't support that.

Ecc_3:17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.

God judges the righteous and the wicked, not only the wicked.

Tit_3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)
Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

2Co_5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Rev_14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Our works follow us to judgment day. Be careful to "maintain good works".

Jas_5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

1Pe_4:8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

Here good works can even cause sins to be covered or removed which is to be forgiven.

No war on the Jews. The AC will make war against Christians, not Jews (of Judaism).


The Olivet Discourse (Matthew):

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

False Christ's are warned about.

Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

These are Christians being delivered up not Jews. Hated because of Christ's name! This proves that Christ is talking about Christians when he says "you". He was also speaking to his Christian disciples.


Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


The gospel of the kingdom is about Christ and is delivered by Christians.


Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, ( whoso readeth, let him understand: )

"Ye" are Christians.

So, the AoD is going to affect "all the world" and Christians are the targets! Christians are persecuted and murdered for the testimony of Christ and because they carry his name.

Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

"Ye" is still the same people, Christians.


Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The elect are Christians not Jews per the context of this passage.

Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

Again, a warning about false Christs given to "you" which are Christians.

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Another reference to false Christ's and the Christian elect.


Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

You=Christians and yet again another false Christ reference. There is a false Christ coming to deceive Christians and those not deceived will be delivered up, persecuted and killed.

Nothing about Jews at all because Jews are not the target of the Antichrist and tribulation.


Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


And here is the second coming. The gathering of the elect by angels is another way to speak of the rapture and the rapture is only for Christians. Christians are the body of Christ, are the Church of Christ, and are the bride of Christ, targeted by the enemy during the Great Tribulation of Christian persecution.

Again, nothing about Jews in the religion of Judaism at all because they are not the target of the Antichrist and tribulation.

The Olivet Discourse (Mark):

Mar 13:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,
Mar 13:4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?
Mar 13:5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:

He is talking to his Christian disciples.

Mar 13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

This is the false Christ that Christians are warned about.

Mar 13:7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.
Mar 13:8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.
Mar 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

"for my sake" means the reason they are delivered to councils and beaten in Jewish synagogues is because they are Christians! This is not about Jewish persecution or punishment at all.

Mar 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

That's the Christian gospel of Christ not a Jewish gospel.


Mar 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

"you" here is still the same people he is talking about, Christians.

Mar 13:12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
Mar 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Here it is again. Those that carry the name of Christ, Christians, will be the ones persecuted.


Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
Mar 13:15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
Mar 13:16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
Mar 13:17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mar 13:18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
Mar 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
Mar 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

The elect here are the same people in the entire OD, Christians!


Mar 13:21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:

Again Christians are being warned about the false Christ.


Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Same Christian elect here as well.


Mar 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
Mar 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mar 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

And here is the second coming of the Christian Messiah and the rapturing/gathering.


Mar 13:28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
Mar 13:29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
Mar 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
Mar 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
Mar 13:33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
Mar 13:34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
Mar 13:35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
Mar 13:36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
Mar 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

Never once does the subject change from Christian persecution to anything about the Jews being targeted for persecution or punishment. Christians are the body of Christ, are the Church of Christ, and are the bride of Christ, targeted by the enemy during the Great Tribulation of Christian persecution.

The OD is fully and completely about Christian persecution and AD70 was only about the Jews rebelling against the Roman's and being defeated.


In the GT Christians will be beaten in Jewish synagogues simply because Christians are the ones being persecuted not the Jews.

That's why the Jews run and escape to Petra?

They haven't converted yet to Christ.

Not sure about your doctrine at all.

It always abused me when people say that salvation isn't works based, but then proceed to say you have to work for it.

.

Correct, and divorcing faith from works doesn't work either, as I recently realized and have been sharing:

The kerygma proclaims God's requirement for salvation, which calls for repentance and acceptance of/faith in Jesus as Lord, an all or nothing decision that occurs at one moment in time.

The didache teaches God’s will regarding how saints or those who have been saved should live in order to be a good witness for Christ, which involves continuing to have faith while learning more of God’s Word throughout one’s lifetime. A passage teaching this truth is Colossians 2:6-7: “Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord [kerygma], continue to live in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught [didache].”

There is no qualitative difference between faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and faith that accepts God’s working grace while walking/being sanctified (EPH 2:8-10, 2CR 5:7, 2THS 1:3-4 & 2:11-17), but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime.

NightTwister, !! ... I never said that, "you have to work, for salvation" .. You are the one that keeps saying that !! I'm saying that we are obliged to work & serve the Lord, and our neighbor, because of our Salvation.

I'm sorry, I can't be more clear or understandable to you.. NT ... Loving my Lord & Savior IS NOT work ... It's like a mother breast feeding her new born .. do you consider the mother feeding her babe as "work" ... or Love?

"The fruits of the Spirit, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control, are essential for believers and reflect the life of Christ in the their soul. These attributes are not achieved through personal effort (my work) but through the work of the Holy Spirit in the lives of those who receive Christ. Faith and trust in God's grace, as genuine faith in Christ leads to growth and transformation, ... sanctification. Believers should to strive for a life that aligns with God's commandments, as true love for God manifests in a desire to know and do His will."

I understand John 14:15 as, If you Love me, "you WILL" keep my commandment" ... obedience to Jesus' teachings is both a sign and a test of one's love for him, so God is not forcing us, to keep His commandments. We have a choice, because we are His chosen, to obey or not ... To Love God or not ... It's up to each one of us, to follow Christ, or not.

To restate what you said above .. "Salvation isn't worked based", ... it is a free gift, but once we have have salvation thru Jesus, we have a choice, to work and serve God and our neighbors, because God / Jesus first loved us and (worked) saving us from the penalty of our disobedience. Not continuing (John 8:11) to be sinful & disobedient, but thru sanctification, having Christ place His Rope of Righteousness on us, so that we may, "Go (Work) ... "and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatever I have commanded you: and, see, I am with you always, even to the end of the world. Mat 28:19,20 Amen. I am not working, to be saved, but because I am saved.

So here I am today, ... "loving my neighbor, as myself" .. Working for YOU NT, bringing the Holy Spirit, the Word of God, to YOU, so that hopefully, the Spirit will convict you, to make the decision to Love God as He want us to love Him> If you Love me, you will keep My Commandments.
I Pray

Correct. Just as repenting/believing in Christ at conversion is a choice enabled by God's grace, so continuing to confess/believe in Christ while learning GW regarding moral issues beyond the Gospel is a choice enabled by God's grace through faith.

The Gospel kerygma proclaims God's requirement for salvation, which calls for repentance and acceptance of/faith in Jesus as Lord, an all or nothing decision that occurs at one moment in time, and the didache teaches God’s will regarding how those who have begun walking with God should live in order to be a good witness for Christ while learning more of God’s Word taught be the Holy Spirit. A passage teaching this truth is Colossians 2:6-7: “Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord [kerygma], continue to live in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught [didache].”

Viewing godly works/spiritual fruit as "works-based" is wrong, because there is no qualitative difference between faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and faith that accepts God’s working grace while walking/being sanctified (EPH 2:8-10, 2CR 5:7, 2THS 1:3-4 & 2:11-17), but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime.