Independent Women

The cynical side of me thinks that when such men disparage "independent women" they really mean women who won't consider dating them or any other guy that doesn't have a lot to offer.

I mean yeah, there's some really nasty women who act like they're insulted by a guy trying to be helpful. But for the most part I think the men who complain about women being too independent are the ones who don't have anything to attract an emotionally healthy competent woman. They probably complain about how all their ex girlfriends used them for money and expected them to be responsible adults too.

You would need to ask each person using these terms to explain what they mean... everyone may be a little different.

When someone says these things, you need to say, "What do you mean by that?"
Then you'll have an answer.

Personally, I might talk about 3rd and 4th wave feminism, and how it promotes "disliking" men.
I think that's a problem.
There is obviously a huge difference between disliking the opposite sex, and simply not having a spouse and getting on with your life.

Have a great weekend.
.

Here's one way I look at it:

A woman who brags about being "independent" isn't really independent at all. In fact, she's dependent on what others think of her. Otherwise, she wouldn't make it a point to announce it to the whole world. The bragging and boasting is what turns a lot of men off.

A lion doesn't need to remind other animals or humans that it's a lion. It just exists and does its thing.

Likewise, a woman who is truly independent and who doesn't want a relationship with a man just lives her life that way without many people noticing.

"Independent" woman just means she can take care of herself and isn't needy (more usually and specifically, financially) on a guy. Guys want women who need them, but not "needy" women. This can be confusing. It might be better to describe an independent woman as financially-independent, but that also sounds bad as though she is rich. Also, most independent women do not describe themselves as independent, but it is a label that others put on them. I can see why the term independent can put someone off. For example, if a man described himself as an "independent" man, that could suggest something bad like he doesn't want/need/like women. Back to my main point, independent just means financially-independent.

"Never let a man do anything for you they never do anything unless there's something it it for them." This sound bitter but it's actually good advise. The ones that are offish are probably divorcee. woman that have been hurt so all men are to blame. Also woman don't tend to remarry as often as men do. Also Independence sometimes comes as a result of a divorce. I agree on your other points.

Oh there are quite a few middle age guys out there that don't have a woman to aggravate. It balances out I think.

[

It needs to be mocked on the way out of here lest we forget.

"Woman Empowerment!" @1:20 mark
This Medical Dr probably spread AIDS and HIV across Pennsylvania.

I actually don't really refer to myself as "independent", partly because most men seem to find the phrase upsetting, and partly because I don't really get the point in announcing that.

In this case I am not referring to independence from God, only to "needing" a husband/provider (though I do value men and I would like to get married). In my early/mid 20's I felt I "needed" a husband, and couldn't be happy without one. Eventually I learned to find my joy and purpose in the Lord. Now I don't feel as if I "need" a husband, but when I mention this (in response to guys stating that women need men), most guys seem to find the notion silly or naive. They refer to studies like the one you mentioned that are supposed to demonstrate to me how incompetent and illogical I must be since I am female. Men who actually know me don't generally say things like that; I'm referring more to casual acquaintances and random men on the internet.

The other time I hear the phrase used is when men in their 30s, 40s, and 50s are explaining that they need to find a wife in her 20s because women over 30 are "too independent". Which is fine, people are entitled to search for a spouse in any demographic they choose, and I know age factors in when you consider childbirth. But the flipside of that is all the women who now HAVE to be independent because most of the men in their age range are still dead-set on finding a cute 20-something.

I realize that plenty of men do not have this mindset; I am merely explaining the context in which I typically hear the phrase used.

We don't claim this one ^^^

This was very interesting, especially the part I put in bold. I wonder if, when I guy says "you need a man", he is actually thinking that he needs a woman .


Interesting. I think you probably touched on some of the reasons this topic is an issue for me. I'll be reading back through and re-processing what everyone has said.

Oh, I did not mean to imply that there are more single middle-aged women than men, I'd guess the numbers are close to equal. I just meant that once ladies hit 40 and are still single, we can either be a dumpster fire or we can be independent. But apparently choosing the independence route makes us undesirable to a lot of guys.

Lol nope, I'm driving and he's shooting, it's the natural order of things

Seriously though, I'm not on the market right now so this thread isn't about trying to snag a dude. I'm just curious about a mindset I've encountered a lot lately.

Um... Nope.

I mean you can try to find an ulterior motive every time a guy tries to help you. It will ruin a lot of the joy in your life and it will be really unfair to the men who just like to help people, but you can live your life that way if you want to.

But there are some people, men and women, who just help people. Not because they expect anything back. Not because they are looking for any advantage. Just because they like to be helpful.

Totally. Empty vessels make the most noise.
You said it. Some of the men you'll rub shoulders with, will unconsciously assign their own position to you.

Personal context is important though, because if a female implied that I needed a woman in my life, I would dare say she was hitting on me!

I am so stealing that one.

This may come as a shock to you, but there are some genuine Christian men in this world, and this is horrible advice where such men are concerned. Where potential Christian husbands are concerned, Christ is the example. In other words, in the same manner in which Christ sacrificially laid his life down for the church, a Christian husband will seek to lay his own life down for his wife. To even suggest that such a godly man would never do anything for a woman unless there is something in it for him is pure evil.

I am not saying this in any sort of mocking or derogatory way, but there is an upside to all of this. In other words, if you would like to get married, and if you are running into men who hold to such wrong views of the type of independent women that you have described, then it seems as if you have a means by which to weed out many wrong prospects, and you should be thankful for that.

Assuming that you would like to marry a Christian man someday, just keep your eyes open for a man who has actually prepared himself to be the type of husband that God has ordained men to be. You know, someone who would sacrificially lay his life down for you, who would wash you with the water of God's word, and who would nourish and cherish you as his own flesh.

Such men are rare, but I would like to think that they do exist somewhere.

The ones who complain about "independent women?"

Excuse my plainness of speech, but it has been my experience that men who complain about women have never taken the time to work on themselves. If they had, then they would be seeking God's face for a godly woman, and not just going around and complaining.

Finally, to be fair to the genuine Christian men who are out there, in your waiting season, you (and all women) need to make sure that you are similarly preparing yourself to be the type of godly woman that God desires to match with a godly man. I am not suggesting that you have not been doing the same. Instead, I am merely stating that a potential marriage is a two-way street, and both sides need to prepare themselves aforetime in the manner in which God describes in scripture. If they do not, then there are going to be some major problems down the line.

I will bow out of this conversation with a simple question for everyone.

There are probably millions, if not billions, of people in this world who talk about what they want in a relationship. In your estimation, what percentage of those people have truly prepared themselves before the Lord in order to give him what he wants in a relationship? In other words, what percentage of those people have truly submitted themselves unto the Lord and his word in order to be fashioned into the type of godly husband or godly wife that God has described in scripture?

I wish you all a blessed day.