How do you believe someone is of the elect

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HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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Atonement is unlimited for (The Elect) those who want it.
I feel like you are doing some kind of semantics gymnastics, quite honestly I do not not understand what this means?

If you are defining the "elect" as a subset of chosen people out of entire humanity for eternal life, I would state that Jesus stated the opposite.
 
Dec 12, 2024
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I feel like you are doing some kind of semantics gymnastics, quite honestly I do not not understand what this means?

If you are defining the "elect" as a subset of chosen people out of entire humanity for eternal life, I would state that Jesus stated the opposite.
Not everyone is of the elect.
 
Apr 3, 2025
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Why do people feel they need to judge who are of "the Elect" and who are not?

We have been COMMANDED to avoid judging by our own FAULTY standards, and leave those judgments to The Law (Matt. 5:17-19 KJV) and The Law made flesh (Christ - John 5:22 KJV), who will judge all of us according to our works (Matt. 7:16-20 KJV; Matt. 16:27 KJV; Rev. 20:12-15 KJV).

Matthew 7:1-5
7:1 Judge NOT, that ye be not judged.
7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye?
7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed ALL judgment unto the Son:

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his WORKS.

Revelation 20:12-15
20:12 And I saw the "Dead", small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another Book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life: and the "Dead" were judged out of those things which were written in the Books, according to their works.
20:13 And the "sea" gave up the "Dead" which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their WORKS.
20:14 And death and hell were cast into the "Lake of Fire". This is the second death.
20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the "Lake of Fire".

The reason we've been COMMANDED not to judge others, or our own selves, is because it immediately takes the focus on what we are supposed to be doing: learning to crucify the "self" (ego) DAILY - Luke 9:23 KJV; Luke 14:26-27 to overcome it.

Luke 9:23 And he said to [them] all, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Luke 14:26-27

14:26 If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own (human) life also, he can NOT be my disciple.
14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, can NOT be my disciple.

Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the communities; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the Tree of Life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Revelation 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the communities; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death (The Fire).

The more one follows Christ's TRUE Teachings of Self-Sacrifice (symbolized spiritually and physically with the crucifixion of Jesus), the less inclined one is to judge another, or to judge ourselves to be one of the "Elect", i.e. one of the 144,000 who will be redeemed from the Earth on Judgment Day.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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Not everyone is of the elect.
Scripture states the "chosen" are those called to service.

The term chosen does not describe the process of how individuals come to faith.

… the Lord your God has chosen them and their descendants out of all your tribes to stand and minister in the Lord’s name always. (Deuteronomy 18:5)
 

HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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The reason we've been COMMANDED not to judge others, or our own selves, is because it immediately takes the focus on what we are supposed to be doing: learning to crucify the "self" (ego) DAILY - Luke 9:23 KJV; Luke 14:26-27 to overcome it.
Hmm, this sounds very familiar. :unsure:
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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It should sound familiar, as it's directly from the mouth of Jesus. :)
Workers always talk about crucify self and nullify the work of the cross, so yes He spoke these words but leave it men to twist them.

I know the theology of the street preachers well, and you sound familiar to those who have been here before.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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I really don't get how them repeating a lie makes it an honest mistake. It is not an honest mistake when they repeat lies. I have put a number of people on ignore which is as you say moving on because I know such people do not repent. They are not interested in the truth. They like pretending you believe things you do not, they like acting as if you have said things you have not, they are attached to their lies and are not interested in correction, no amount of telling the truth to their lies gets you anywhere with CDSers. It is like that question, have you stopped beating your wife? What is there to explain beyond the fact that you have never beat your wife? They don't care about that.
Repeating lies is not an honest mistake. I wouldn't expect an apology from such a one. I was simply distinguishing between those who there may be profit in continuing with and those that we move on from. But we need not take it personally. In fact, we can actually live in such a manner as others will see our good works and glorify our Father in heaven.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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When they were conceived and being formed in the womb.
Jer 1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations
Awesome. Any other times scripture speaks of?
 
Apr 3, 2025
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Workers always talk about crucify self and nullify the work of the cross, so yes He spoke these words but leave it men to twist them.

I know the theology of the street preachers well, and you sound familiar to those who have been here before.
The only way to nullify the work that Christ-Jesus did on the cross is to refuse to learn from and follow His Commands, including to crucify the "self" per His Example.

Galatians 2:20 My "Self" is crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I (the "Self"), but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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The only way to nullify the work that Christ-Jesus did on the cross is to refuse to learn from and follow His Commands, including to crucify the "self" per His Example.

Galatians 2:20 My "Self" is crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I (the "Self"), but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
It is not possible to nullify the cross in reality, but indeed it is done by people's words.

Your expression is familiar.
You have much confidence in your ability to become Christ.
 
Apr 3, 2025
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No, it's not. It's a number no man can number. How high can you count?
Have you ever been to a collegiate level football stadium in the United States?

If not, there are several of them that can hold crowds of over 100,000 (e.g. Michigan's "Big House", Penn State's Beaver Stadium, the Buckeye's Ohio Stadium; Texas A&M's Kyle Field, and several more.

Usually, around halftime or so, an announcement is made of the "official" attendance for the day, estimated from ticket sales, turnstiles data, etc., so that people can HEAR what the estimated "official" attendance was for that day's event.

The reason why these estimates are used is because it would be impossible for anyone to personally count a multitude that size, regardless of one's vantage point. Even if everyone in the stadium would sit still in their seats long enough for someone to try.

The Bible is crystal clear that there will only be 144,000 redeemed from the Earth, and that they will all be Israelites (NOT "Jews") who have recognized Christ during His Second Coming, and have been gathered to Him.

Revelation 7:4-9
7:4 And I HEARD the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
7:5 Of the tribe of Judah [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad [were] sealed twelve thousand.
7:6 Of the tribe of Asher [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Naphtali [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasseh [were] sealed twelve thousand.
7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar [were] sealed twelve thousand.
7:8 Of the tribe of Zebulun [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph/Ephraim [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin [were] sealed twelve thousand.
7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could count (which is why he was told in verse 4), of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the Throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Revelation 14:1-4
14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the Mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty [and] four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many "waters", and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
14:3 And they sung as it were a New Song (Isaiah 42:10 KJV) before the Throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that "Song" except the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the Earth.
14:4 These are they which were not corrupted by women; for they are pure. These are they which follow the Lamb wheresoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb (obeying God NOT women).

Everyone else is going to burn, exactly as we've been warned for thousands of Earth years.

So we would all do well to get rid of ALL of our bad/selfish habits and sinful ways, and start learning that New Song.
See: Rev. 15:3 KJV, which defines the New Song as the "Song of Moses" (Old Covenant/Testament) AND the "Song of the Lamb" (New Covenant/Testament), which are in perfect harmony and agreement IF they are properly understood and followed.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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I am puzzled as to how a person can love God without believing in God.
When I heard of Jesus, I fell in love without really knowing if He was real, or that He loved me. Considering that if I wanted to give consideration to all views, I gave audience to the assertion that God really doesn't love everyone.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
7,965
3,156
113
Have you ever been to a collegiate level football stadium in the United States?

If not, there are several of them that can hold crowds of over 100,000 (e.g. Michigan's "Big House", Penn State's Beaver Stadium, the Buckeye's Ohio Stadium; Texas A&M's Kyle Field, and several more.

Usually, around halftime or so, an announcement is made of the "official" attendance for the day, estimated from ticket sales, turnstiles data, etc., so that people can HEAR what the estimated "official" attendance was for that day's event.

The reason why these estimates are used is because it would be impossible for anyone to personally count a multitude that size, regardless of one's vantage point. Even if everyone in the stadium would sit still in their seats long enough for someone to try.

The Bible is crystal clear that there will only be 144,000 redeemed from the Earth, and that they will all be Israelites (NOT "Jews") who have recognized Christ during His Second Coming, and have been gathered to Him.

Revelation 7:4-9
7:4 And I HEARD the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
7:5 Of the tribe of Judah [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad [were] sealed twelve thousand.
7:6 Of the tribe of Asher [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Naphtali [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasseh [were] sealed twelve thousand.
7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar [were] sealed twelve thousand.
7:8 Of the tribe of Zebulun [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph/Ephraim [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin [were] sealed twelve thousand.
7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could count (which is why he was told in verse 4), of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the Throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Revelation 14:1-4
14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the Mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty [and] four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many "waters", and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
14:3 And they sung as it were a New Song (Isaiah 42:10 KJV) before the Throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that "Song" except the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the Earth.
14:4 These are they which were not corrupted by women; for they are pure. These are they which follow the Lamb wheresoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb (obeying God NOT women).

Everyone else is going to burn, exactly as we've been warned for thousands of Earth years.

So we would all do well to get rid of ALL of our bad/selfish habits and sinful ways, and start learning that New Song.
See: Rev. 15:3 KJV, which defines the New Song as the "Song of Moses" (Old Covenant/Testament) AND the "Song of the Lamb" (New Covenant/Testament), which are in perfect harmony and agreement IF they are properly understood and followed.
It is you isn't it?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
21,712
7,438
113
63
Have you ever been to a collegiate level football stadium in the United States?

If not, there are several of them that can hold crowds of over 100,000 (e.g. Michigan's "Big House", Penn State's Beaver Stadium, the Buckeye's Ohio Stadium; Texas A&M's Kyle Field, and several more.

Usually, around halftime or so, an announcement is made of the "official" attendance for the day, estimated from ticket sales, turnstiles data, etc., so that people can HEAR what the estimated "official" attendance was for that day's event.

The reason why these estimates are used is because it would be impossible for anyone to personally count a multitude that size, regardless of one's vantage point. Even if everyone in the stadium would sit still in their seats long enough for someone to try.

The Bible is crystal clear that there will only be 144,000 redeemed from the Earth, and that they will all be Israelites (NOT "Jews") who have recognized Christ during His Second Coming, and have been gathered to Him.

Revelation 7:4-9
7:4 And I HEARD the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
7:5 Of the tribe of Judah [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad [were] sealed twelve thousand.
7:6 Of the tribe of Asher [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Naphtali [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasseh [were] sealed twelve thousand.
7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar [were] sealed twelve thousand.
7:8 Of the tribe of Zebulun [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph/Ephraim [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin [were] sealed twelve thousand.
7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could count (which is why he was told in verse 4), of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the Throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Revelation 14:1-4
14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the Mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty [and] four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many "waters", and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
14:3 And they sung as it were a New Song (Isaiah 42:10 KJV) before the Throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that "Song" except the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the Earth.
14:4 These are they which were not corrupted by women; for they are pure. These are they which follow the Lamb wheresoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb (obeying God NOT women).

Everyone else is going to burn, exactly as we've been warned for thousands of Earth years.

So we would all do well to get rid of ALL of our bad/selfish habits and sinful ways, and start learning that New Song.
See: Rev. 15:3 KJV, which defines the New Song as the "Song of Moses" (Old Covenant/Testament) AND the "Song of the Lamb" (New Covenant/Testament), which are in perfect harmony and agreement IF they are properly understood and followed.
You should read Revelation 7:9 again. The number of people counted at a sporting event is approximate because no one takes the time to do an accurate count, but it could be done.
 
Apr 3, 2025
12
6
3
It is not possible to nullify the cross in reality, but indeed it is done by people's words.
You are contradicting yourself, perhaps without realizing it.

Your expression is familiar.
You have much confidence in your ability to become Christ.
We need to become Christ-LIKE by following His Example (John 14:6 KJV)

There's only ONE Christ (The ONE Whom God anointed to be our King, Teacher, Saviour and the High-Priest/Mediator between God and men).
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,615
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If God doesn't know until a person loves Him, that isn't foreknowledge, is it?
I'd have to find the post touching on God's omniscience working in conjunction with His omnipresence with regard to Him knowing that Abraham would not withhold His son. God said to Abraham, "Now, I know..." and I hold the opinion that God, although God foreknew, He 'marked' the moment "when," the time marker of, that He knew.