How do you believe someone is of the elect

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Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#61
Jul 3, 2015
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#61
Mem said:
This is your forte, distorting faces of otherwise beautiful people. Find someone else to bicker with. I have better things to do.
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So no Scripture to back your view, just ad homs. Disappointing, like I said.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#63
Mar 1, 2022
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#63
Roughsoul1991 said:
Romans 8:29 (ESV)
29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

It is the order in the sequence that is important. When I mentioned predestined it was in reference to to TULIP doctrine.

Romans 8:29 mentions those who He foreknew

Take that into the context of other scripture that mentions God wanting all to be saved, He calls everyone unto Himself, and that the invitation is open to everyone who believes then you understand that election involves those who He foreknew and predestined involves those He foreknew.

Logic provides no other way. Either God wanted all to be saved and was powerless to do so or free will is involved.
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Alot here to unpack. So I understand, do you mind if I ask a series of questions? It's easier for me if we go one at a time, so I hope you'll forebear.

Did God foreknow everyone?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#64
Mar 1, 2022
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#64
Mem said:
Btw, I saw that! lol, and I also see that your girl did too. ;)
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I was trying to find a humorous way to end our discussion. If you were offended, please accept my sincere apology.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#65
Jul 3, 2015
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#65
Cameron143 said:
I was trying to find a humorous way to end our discussion. If you were offended, please accept my sincere apology.
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She is obviously offended to be called out on her lack of Scriptural backing for her views.

I do not apologize for sticking with what the Bible says even when people lie about
what I am doing and misrepresent me at every turn. I do however find it odd. And sad.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#68
Jul 3, 2015
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#68

Romans 5 verse 12 Ephesians 2 verse 3 Just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned. We were by nature children of wrath.
.:)
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

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#69
Sep 17, 2016
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#69
Cameron143 said:
Alot here to unpack. So I understand, do you mind if I ask a series of questions? It's easier for me if we go one at a time, so I hope you'll forebear.

Did God foreknow everyone?
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Did He forget or not know what He was breathing life into? When was the Book of life created? Before the world or at the end of time?
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#70
Jul 3, 2015
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#70
Roughsoul1991 said:
Did He forget or not know what He was breathing life into? When was the Book of life created? Before the world or at the end of time?
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"Those He foreknew" were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world... according to what Scripture explicitly states.

:)
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#71
Mar 1, 2022
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#71
Roughsoul1991 said:
Did He forget or not know what He was breathing life into? When was the Book of life created? Before the world or at the end of time?
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I take it your answer is yes. So if God foreknew everyone, did He not also predestine everyone? And if predestined, the passage goes on to say, aren't they also called, justified, and glorified?
Obviously, this is not true of everyone.

The Book of Life preceded creation.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#72
Jul 3, 2015
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#72
Cameron143 said:
I take it your answer is yes. So if God foreknew everyone, did He not also predestine everyone? And if predestined, the passage goes on to say, aren't they also called, justified, and glorified?
Obviously, this is not true of everyone.
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This is why context is so important... because obviously it would seem obvious that God knows everyone, and yet
the context of being glorified and sanctified and conformed to the image of God's Son applies only to children of
God...to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love, He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus
Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will. Of course, affirming what Scripture says means people will come
along and try to shoehorn you into something they disagree with and claim that is what you believe. I really don't
know why so many feel compelled to behave in this manner. Perhaps Satan has something to do with it.
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#73
Sep 17, 2016
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#73
Cameron143 said:
I take it your answer is yes. So if God foreknew everyone, did He not also predestine everyone? And if predestined, the passage goes on to say, aren't they also called, justified, and glorified?
Obviously, this is not true of everyone.

The Book of Life preceded creation.
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Simply God knows who will accept Him and who will not. Those who accept are in the Book of Life. Those that won't are blotted out.

The only thing that matters for those who debate this is to share the gospel. None of us are omniscient and God calls us to share the gospel.

God wants all to be saved but not all will be saved. God calls all but not all respond. Jesus died for all people and the sins of all people.

Everyone needs to hear the good news. We should be working alongside the Holy Spirit who is nudging the hearts of mankind to seek out the Creator.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#74
Mar 1, 2022
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#74
Roughsoul1991 said:
Simply God knows who will accept Him and who will not. Those who accept are in the Book of Life. Those that won't are blotted out.

The only thing that matters for those who debate this is to share the gospel. None of us are omniscient and God calls us to share the gospel.

God wants all to be saved but not all will be saved. God calls all but not all respond. Jesus died for all people and the sins of all people.

Everyone needs to hear the good news. We should be working alongside the Holy Spirit who is nudging the hearts of mankind to seek out the Creator.
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But this is my original point: the verse says whom God foreknew and not what God foreknew would be true of individuals. While it is true that what you stated could be true, the verse doesn't say that. It expressly says whom, and not what.
I do agree that all should be involved in evangelical outreach and for the reason you've given: we don't know who will be saved.
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#75
Feb 24, 2009
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#75
Intersection said:
before they truly believe in Jesus?
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They believe...are then converted..that makes them elect. No salvation before belief. Only that God does convict the sinner before they believe.

John 3:16, 3:36, 5:25, 6:40, 10:28
Romans 10:9-10, Ephesians 2:8-9
 
K

Kroogz

Well-known member
#76
Dec 5, 2023
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#76
wattie said:
They believe...are then converted..that makes them elect. No salvation before belief. Only that God does convict the sinner before they believe.

John 3:16, 3:36, 5:25, 6:40, 10:28
Romans 10:9-10, Ephesians 2:8-9
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John 16~~ 8And He, when He comes, will convict the world regarding sin, and righteousness, and judgment: 9regarding sin, because they do not believe in Me;
 
I

Intersection

Active member
#77
Dec 12, 2024
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#77
wattie said:
They believe...are then converted..that makes them elect. No salvation before belief. Only that God does convict the sinner before they believe.

John 3:16, 3:36, 5:25, 6:40, 10:28
Romans 10:9-10, Ephesians 2:8-9
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The elect are the elect before the foundation of the world.
 
K

Kroogz

Well-known member
#78
Dec 5, 2023
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#78
Biblically~~The Lord Jesus Christ died for all. If you believe, you will be saved. Anyone can be saved.

Calvie~~jesus died for a few, you could possibly be one of them. We don't know. So we could be telling you the most horrible lie ever, if you are not one of the special ones.
 
I

Intersection

Active member
#79
Dec 12, 2024
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#79
Kroogz said:
Biblically~~The Lord Jesus Christ died for all. If you believe, you will be saved. Anyone can be saved.

Calvie~~jesus died for a few, you could possibly be one of them. We don't know. So we could be telling you the most horrible lie ever, if you are not one of the special ones.
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Jesus died for ALL the elect.
 
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