Understanding God’s election

I mean that although atheists can conceive of no God, if an omnipotent God exists, it is inconceivable to me that Existence (I AM) could commit suicide and not exist or not be omnipotent except in the incarnate dimension(s).

I agree with you that it is unlikely that anything that is ever-existent, which is what the Persons of the Godhead are, and what the Divine Community/Entity they comprise is, would cease to exist.

However, it does not seem to me to be unlikely (metaphysically or biblically) that some members of an omnipotent Community/Entity could choose to sustain less than all things, as long as the Divine Community cumulatively continues to exercise omnipotence, even in the spiritual dimension, through one or more of the Persons, .

Yes, Romans 9:15-22.

Oh okay, let's look at that passage

Romans 9:15 For he says to Moses,

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’” 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?

So I can see why you might think the way you do about God that He has the option to choose to hate us.

For me, I like to temper Chapter 9 with Chapter 11.

Roman 11:25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”
28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

God will use willful people's disobedience or resistance against Him for His purposes, but ultimately He wants to extend mercy to all us. That would include Pharoah and all the godless people He used for His purposes. If any of them had repented, He would have had mercy on them.

So Chapter 9 might make God look arbitrarily cruel, but for me, Chapter 11 shows that God's mercy is available to all.


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Drop down verse linking not working it seems.

Yes, as well as the pearls I cast before R, M, & C: Mal.3:6, Jam.1:17, Num.23:19, 1Sam.15:29, 1John.4:7-12, Rom.5:8,
Matt.5:44-48, Gal.5:22, Eph.3:17b-19, 5:1-2, 1Tim.2:3-4, etc.

Yes, as well as the pearls I cast before R, M, & C: Mal.3:6, Jam.1:17, Num.23:19, 1Sam.15:29, 1John.4:7-12, Rom.5:8,
Matt.5:44-48, Gal.5:22, Eph.3:17b-19, 5:1-2, 1Tim.2:3-4, etc.

Your self deception knows no bounds. Perhaps if you stopped with your repeated false accusations? But I have already discovered that is expecting too much from you.

May One and All have a Glorious, Blessed and Joyous Easter. Little does the world understand, let alone appreciate or acknowledge, that the most important historical event in all redemptive human history occurred on the morning of Easter Sunday. But for Christ's sheep it is the most glorious and joyful day to celebrate before God's throne with our heartfelt worship, adoration and thanksgiving to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Blessed be his Holy Name forever, for our hope of eternal life is bound up in his victory over the final enemy and the enemy who held its power.

Wow. You and your pretensions to understanding.

Surely you will blame me for this misunderstanding of yours just as you continue to do the other.
And this is exactly why I had you blocked for so long. You are a hater.
Too many like you lack spiritual discernment.
This is why you ascribe to the natural man qualities and abilities possessed only by the spiritual man.
Perhaps you are to be pitied.

Pelagian heretics seem to embrace a number of other heresies... And they are so very confused about the will of the natural man. It's like they have absolutely no idea who he is, and no conception of the spiritual man by contrast either, which is made apparent by the fact that they ascribe to the former qualities, characteristics, and abilities only possessed by the latter.

Well, the obvious reason and only conclusion I've been able to reach, with this group specifically, is that they just don't KNOW Gods power yet because they've never been in contact with it. They've now started accusing me of saying that I believe everyone has to have a "road to Damascus" level experience to be saved, because I testify this is what God did for me. I will always testify of the truth and the amazing POWER of God on this earth and in our lives, always.

That said I also know and understand that God saves each one of us personally, and this can happen in MANY different ways. Some are saved as young kids and walk most their lives with Him in truth, some have set out to intellectually disprove Jesus so they can shut up their wife and are drawn in that way, some are scooped up in a jailcell after 40 years of hardcore heroin use and reaching the end of themselves, some are visited in dreams on the other side of the world in societies where believing in Jesus is punishable by death. So, I've never said or taught that anyone has to do anything specific to be saved, but what I will say is that NONE of these speak about the power of God the same way this group does. I truly believe that no one who has been born again, for real in truth, can take any of the positions on Gods power that this group takes on EVERY SINGLE ISSUE. From exulting man's free will, to the saved being able to walk away from Jesus whenever they want, they just have a very high view of self and a very low view of Gods transforming power. We can sit here and debate this with them until we turn to dust, but it's not something we can ever "show them". It's something only God can open their eyes to, and I'm tired wasting time trying to show the willingly blind how to see, when they keep jamming the screwdriver in their own eyes.

My case is that I have always believed in Jesus and walked with Him as you mentioned. As an older teenager I set out to witness to atheists by learning GW, and I discovered that OSAS contradicts the "sour 16" (verses teaching perseverance) in GW, so I amended that belief, but not the belief based on the "7 pearls" (verses teaching divine omnilove) that souls are free to accept the Gospel--although I only recently added the explanation called "seeking grace" to the website. This view glorifies God's transforming power, whereas the view that God merely determines what robots can do does not, and it was arrived at because I am a truthseeker who is willing to amend my views when I learn something new.

Another example of something I added because of discussions on CC is this: There is no qualitative difference between faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and faith that accepts God’s working grace while walking/living (EPH 2:8-10, 2CR 5:7, RM 1:17), but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime.

I hope you also are a truthseeker who is still learning GW. Have you amended any opinions recently?

God's preservation of his saints does not contradict the doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints. The holy ones of God will persevere in the Faith precisely because God is preserving them! Explain to me how anyone who has been gifted with the Fear the Lord can fall away from the faith, since it's this godly disposition of heart that causes the saints to hate evil, shun sin and thus prevents any saint from ever turning away from God (Jer 32:36-41).

If you understand love, then you know it must be evoked rather than forced. Seven Scriptural "pearls" teaching divine omnilove include: 1 John 4:7-12, Rom. 5:8, Matt. 5:44 & 48, Gal. 5:6 & 14, Eph. 3:17b-19, Eph. 5:2 and 1 Tim. 2:3-4. It is love rather than fear that motivates genuine faith and love both at the moment of conversion and during a lifetime of perseverance.

Why anyone would exercise God's "seeking grace" (Matt. 7:7, Tit. 2:11) by choosing to reject God's love is a mystery causing both Jesus and Paul frustration and aggravation expressed in Matt. 13:14-15 and Acts 28:26-27.