James & Ecclesiastes - What is Wisdom?

The same Holy Spirit spoke through Paul , Peter James John ect when you really examine pauls teachings about justification by faith and James teaching about justification by faith they go together to form a fuller understanding of justifcation by faith

First James is teaching about genuine faith and the difference in empty faith .

“What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, and one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:14-17, 26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

One misconception is that James isn’t teaching about faith but he is . Paul had written things like this

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

James is further explaining faith that saves and Emory faith that doesn’t

paul says this

“For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

james is talking about that kind of faith here

“If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, and one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? “

we can see a poor person and feel sorry for them and say “ I’ll pray for ya I hope God helps “ but if we have enough to share and don’t act upon it , it’s empty and not effective because it has no action with it . Saying we have faith is very different from walking in faith actuons are required to complete faith

One of pauls man points is this

“Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭4:3

James is further explaining that point regarding Abraham’s faith as he completes his teaching

“But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:20-24, 26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they wrote with different phrases and words and their writings compliment each others for a better and fuller understanding

to say we’re saved by faith is true ,

to then learn more about what faith entails and find out faith without works is incomplete is also true . Or to find out when we act n roghteousness that fulfills the promise made of righteousness beforhand for believers like Abraham

wisdom is Jesus Christ and the gospel wiser than Solomon even

“The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭12:42‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭1:30‬ ‭

We find true wisdom in the gospel and should forsake all other sources

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭

“Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: but we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, Neither have entered into the heart of man, The things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭2:6-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In John 11:25-26, it is written that Jesus said " he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

The flesh is not the life of the spirit.

Nice work.

There is Biblical Faith vs. there is unbiblical faith; the empty faith you speak of, the dead faith and faith only that James speaks of, a faith that doesn't obey God that Paul and others speak of, a faith that doesn't abide and doesn't obey that Jesus spoke of, IOW an unbiblical faith that is actually unbelief.

IMO, in a pendulum swing against works-salvation some systematic traditions have pushed the faith alone concept too far and have ended up with an overly simplistic concept of faith which actually strips Biblical Faith of its definition from Scripture and turns it into unbelief. The counter to this faith alone concept was faith is never alone. So, this is not a new debate.

Biblical Faith is the only Faith that saves. Maybe there's a better adjective than "Biblical" to describe Faith, like these used by Paul and Peter:

NKJ 2 Timothy 1:5 when I call to remembrance the genuine faith that is in you, which dwelt first in your grandmother Lois and your mother Eunice, and I am persuaded is in you also.

• "genuine" here means "without pretense" - so real Faith - not a pretend faith. It's a word that could be transliterated as "non hypocritical" and means not play acting.

NKJ 1 Peter 1:6-7 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ,

• "genuineness" here means "genuineness as a result of testing" and can mean "without alloy" and we can see this testing concept in Peter's words "trials/tests/temptations" and "tested by fire" where "tested" is another form of the same word that is speaking of the test to determine genuineness/value. It's a word group that speaks of testing metals for purity and thus value.
• "More precious than gold that perishes" speaks of something of exceptional/great value so we can see what Peter instructs re: the extreme value of Faith and ultimately genuine Faith that has been tested and refined.

Stopping here, there's a reason Paul and Peter spoke of Faith in this way and in spite of the fact that such lessons are clear in Scripture, some traditions IMO have made Faith into what it is not and are facilitating some pretend concept of faith that is not genuine and will not stand up or abide under testing, IOW unbelief with its dead works of no value.

You've hit on something really important. Solomon's journey shows us what happens when even the wisest person relies only on human understanding. All that experimenting with pleasure, wealth, and power left him feeling empty inside. That word "vanity" (or "meaningless" in some translations) appears 38 times in Ecclesiastes! Solomon learned the hard way that worldly success without God just doesn't satisfy our souls.

James takes the opposite approach. He starts by identifying himself as a servant - showing that our identity matters more than our achievements. While Solomon says "I tried everything and it's all meaningless," James says "even your hardest struggles have meaning when you see them through God's eyes."

This reminds me of what I see in my counseling practice. People who chase after success, pleasure or wealth often end up in my office feeling empty. Meanwhile, those who find meaning through service and faith demonstrate greater resilience through life's challenges.

What's fascinating to me is how Solomon's wisdom came from his failures, while James's wisdom came from his relationship with Christ. Both teach us valuable lessons, but from opposite directions!

I think studying these books together is actually perfect. They're like before-and-after pictures of the human condition - one showing life without God at the center, the other showing how everything changes when we view our circumstances through faith.

One of the best descriptions I've heard for this word which basically means "vapor" or "breath" and speaks of something transitory is it's like a warm breath on a very cold day that creates a vapor that soon disappears.

I picture this as I read Ecclesiastes.

cc: @SilverFox7

“faith only that James speaks of, a faith that doesn't obey God that Paul and others speak of, a faith that doesn't abide and doesn't obey that Jesus spoke of, IOW an unbiblical faith that is actually unbelief.”

everything paul taught was meant to bring gentiles to the obedience of faith

“For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭15:18‬ ‭

it’s not what paul taught that’s the problem but it’s this this is the issue with his writings

“And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:15-16‬ ‭

a Peter isn’t saying Paul’s letters are wrong he’s commending then calling them wisdom he’s saying “ watch out because many take paul writings and distort and change then into false ideas and lead people astray to destruction “

Paul should be studied together with James and Peter and most importantly Jesus preaching the gospel. But instead people try to find sentences of Paul’s that seem to fit thier ideas of hypergracer and no obedience needed no repentance required ect

pauls writings are magnificent and so in depth and actually are a part of how we come to be obedient humans w we o welcome sins dominion over us ect

Paul actually taught more about repentance and obedience than anyone did even giving clear warnings like this trying to pursuade people

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And clear teachings like this

“Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭6:7-9‬ ‭

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-9‬ ‭

if people actrually read Paul’s letters theres no mistaking his doctrine is the same doctrine Jesus and the other apostles preached and it’s really beautifully written a pleasure to read and consume

Agreed.

And Paul's self-described mission was to bring the nations to "obedience [of] faith" and he bookended Romans with this phrase (Rom1:5, Rom16:26).

The more I've studied this and looked at what Paul taught about Faith & Obedience and how he parallels the two words in verses like Rom10:16, the more I saw Paul's phrase "obedience [of] faith" to simply be "Faith-Obedience" which is a legitimate way to translate it. Another legitimate translation would be "Faithful Obedience" or even "Obedient Faith" and any of these go perfectly with Rom15:18 that you posted. At the end of it all it's just describing a Faithful subordinate relationship with our Faithful God.

IMO, for Paul and for the entire Bible, Genuine Faith is obeying God in whom we believe and when this is understood the two words become virtually interchangeable as Rom10:16 shows.

From what I've seen over the years much of the error re: Genuine Faith is coming from misinterpreting and oversimplifying GJohn. Letting John shore up a few things as he does in 1John helps correct if allowed.

Yes the term “ faith “ has become to some not all ….a replacement in peoples minds for repenting of evil and learning forst what it is but then applying the lords will in our lives to our own selves

Of course often in zeal , we end up not really applying it first to ourselves but then definetely applying it to others . So we have to go back to the source what is it we are meant to obey ? Or rather whos word ?

so we remember things such as this and realize Jesus is setting the foundation for our faith if we hear and believe him listening to and seeking understanding of his word

“But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged:

condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned:

forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom.

For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.



…..And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.


But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:35-38, 46-49‬ ‭

If we learn the things Jesus actually taught his disciples we find out it can truly be summarized n a simple form of course but “ be a good and decent person who actually cares about others especially those less fortunate than you and act like that’s true of you act in that belief and foundational summary

God is pleased when we are living a life that’s not harming others . But helping those we are able to help and living in peace. The law of Moses was about getting wicked people to act that way but the gospel is aboit Changing the hearts and minds of the sinful people , so that by that newly changing nature they begin to act upon those new hearts and minds renewed as we listen to Gods word the gospel

we have to first hear what it is Jesus actually taught his disciples to do is what I’m saying there’s an aweful lot of misconception about that. Often the two testaments get imposed upon the other

That's a great point, Pilgrim. We need to have that living faith stirring up the Holy Spirit to generate fruit that pleases God and serves others. And James talks about what true religion is all about: "Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world" (James 1:27). Jesus set the perfect example of service, and He focused on those who needed the help the most like the blind, the sick, those possessed by demons, and even bringing people back to life who had died a young age.

Keeping ourselves "unspotted from the world" is a major challenge in this Babylon we are engrossed in, and it is so easy to get led away from the work we should be engaged in spreading the gospel and showing love and grace to those around us. On Thursday, I felt moved to visit one of my former teachers in a memory care unit who is in the advanced stages of dementia. As the work day went on, doubts started creeping in, and I started rationalizing not going because "he doesn't know me anymore, he won't remember my visit, I just want to relax tonight...." When I left work, I said "no" - I felt moved to go visit him, and I'm going. I'm sure glad I did because he was the most responsive I have seen him, and we were able to have a few short connections with our common love for teaching karate, music, and language.

Sometimes, we have to force ourselves to follow through on the work we should be doing as God's children. At least for me, I have to battle the flesh and force myself into action before the Holy Spirit starts kicking in with grace and inspiration. In my twenties, we had a great leader for our singles' group who organized Friday night visits to widows and prisoners in our area. It was a spiritually rich experience, and the people really appreciated having young people spend time with them. But, I remember most Fridays during work my flesh was saying "I don't feel like doing this." I had to fight through my bad attitude, move forward, and then God took over from there. It's a constant battle for me, yet God is always there to give me the strength I need to do His will. I have a long way to go for sure to live up to the high standards of Jesus Christ.

Always a blessing to hear you share some wisdom it’s always well received and appreciated.

“At least for me, I have to battle the flesh and force myself into action before the Holy Spirit starts kicking in with grace and inspiration.”

yes brother that’s our fight our flesh v the spirit from God within us

What you said reminds me of many of Paul’s teachings

“For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a lot of people seem to think you have to be perfect , or that struggling with sinful temptations and leftover feelings and senses makes you wrong or makes you illegitimate. It’s something they were teaching chrirtian believers that we do have a fight to fight .

Receiving the spirit is wonderful but then we’re called to follow the spirit . this is where the conflict begins when you have the Holy Spirit but you’re also a sinner still and you acknowledge it.

also you have the spirit longing and desiring to follow Gods Will , but then the other part of mankind is flesh and corrupt and desires sinful lustful Carnal things against his Will .

Even the example you’ve shown there . It sounds like a conflict between self and spirit . Remember brother we’re constantly tested in order to grow stronger .

God bless and thanks for sharing your always wholesome words .

Amen. Those verses from Paul in Ephesians are benchmark, foundational concepts that encapsulate a core concept of Christianity. We are saved by grace through faith, and it is a gift of God. We can't earn salvation by our own futile efforts at obeying the old covenant laws - that's an impossibility that was proven for hundreds of years. Salvation is a gift. It's that simple, and we can't get puffed up because of our filthy rags "righteousness" that is rooted in pride. Yet, what is the fruit of this salvation for those of us who accept that gift:

Ephesians 2:10

New King James Version

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

We are God's "...workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works." Grace/faith and works are not opposites. The good work is a byproduct of faith and God's grace, walking in the Holy Spirit, so His fruits are produced in and through us. "For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone" (v. 18-20).

Amen brother it’s really hard to get believers to accept the doctrine for example this is part of our doctrine after we believe

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, ( sinful thoughts and actions and attitudes ) and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s hard to get to this place in the doctrine because the reaction seems to always be “ your works can’t save you thier filthy rags”

I would argue that’s before a person dies in Christ and is born again n him . What I mean is there’s a change that needs to occur

“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

See we can actually deny our faith by our works being evil. There are people who say they believe and know God but thier actions tell the truth on them thier “ works “

“They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭1:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Good works are the goal of Gods grace because we’re going to be judged by our works

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; ( Thisnos why Paul taught those things in his epistles so we don’t think my works don’t matter now ) looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s true that salvation is a gift nd we surely can’t save ourselves wothoit Christ forst doing what he did and does still bit at some point maturity needs to accept our role in Christ is to put to death the flesh and follow the spirit in doing this the good works will come because they come from our heart our actions I mean we need a heart surgery by Jesus using his scalpel the gospel
So we can make that change from old to new

If we don’t we’ll die our responsability eventually is here

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:

but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Remember what he was saying before about the works of flesh and spirit

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit,( John 6:63) and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: ( this is our plight inner conflict good and evil ) and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; ( these will kill us ) Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit (John 6:63)is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16-17, 19-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s not that we can work our way to heaven for sure but there’s been a really high price paid for our salvation and we belong to him now so we need to belong to him now

“What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭6:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Often a Christian forgets Gods always there with you when we’re in the light of day and also when there’s no one else witnessing us God sees it all through and through from Motive to action

If we stick to Jesus and the gospel this will happen for us

“and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; “

thats what hearing and believing the gospel can do change the issues you snide our mind and heart so that we don’t have any issues doing good and aren’t constantly beat down and dragged back to sin . There’s a lot of power in what he said just like he claims

if we get away from the idea “ we don’t need to stop sinning and do good “ then we’ll start hearing her s way of saving us from sin

Yes, brother, we need that renewal of our mind, and we belong to God now. That old man needs to be body-slammed back into the grave on an ongoing basis, and we need to walk in the light of the Spirit. God knows it all - our thoughts, emotions, intentions, and certainly our sinfulness. Our faith needs to be alive, and we need to fight for that life.

James 2:18-20

New King James Version

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [a]your works, and I will show you my faith by [b]my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is [c]dead?

The good works that flow through us from God come from faith. "I believe in one God, the Father Almighty...," which is great, but our belief needs to translate into action.