The double-standards of the preterist and why I left that system

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Cameron143

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It tells us about the Jews being blinded and deafened for the Gentiles. And we know this is the period we're still calling the Times or Fulfillment of the Gentiles.
You are conflating 2 different things.
 

Cameron143

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Because Paul tells us the Man of Sin\Beast\Antichrist will go into a physical building known as the Temple of God and proclaim to be God.

Even though the Temple has no meaning the very idea of Satan walking into the Temple and calling himself God is the ultimate Abomination that ever could be performed.
It might be, but where does it say a man will go in the temple and act as God?
If you read Matthew 24:15, you will find Jesus reference the abomination of desolation from Daniel and in parenthesis it says...whoso readeth, let him understand. What is the reader to understand?
To find out we go to the parallel passage in Luke 21:20 Luke tells us plainly the understanding...when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
The abomination of desolation took place when the armies of Rome set siege against Jerusalem in the 1st century.
 

lrs68

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It might be, but where does it say a man will go in the temple and act as God?
If you read Matthew 24:15, you will find Jesus reference the abomination of desolation from Daniel and in parenthesis it says...whoso readeth, let him understand. What is the reader to understand?
To find out we go to the parallel passage in Luke 21:20 Luke tells us plainly the understanding...when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
The abomination of desolation took place when the armies of Rome set siege against Jerusalem in the 1st century.
Paul makes the claim.
So it's understanding Daniel 12, Revelation 13, Matthew 24, and Thessalonians.
 

Cameron143

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Paul makes the claim.
So it's understanding Daniel 12, Revelation 13, Matthew 24, and Thessalonians.
Paul isn't writing about the end of a covenant. He's telling how the new covenant came to be.
You obviously aren't interested in learning what these things really mean and when they actually occur or what the Bible actually teaches concerning them. Carry on.
 

lrs68

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Paul isn't writing about the end of a covenant. He's telling how the new covenant came to be.
You obviously aren't interested in learning what these things really mean and when they actually occur or what the Bible actually teaches concerning them. Carry on.
"He will exalt himself and defy everything that people call god and every object of worship. He will even sit in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God

Paul most surely did talk about what I have presented.

But you enjoy your night (y)
 
Aug 22, 2024
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whos Jesus talking about “ replacing “ ?

“Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21:43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

who lost the kingdom because they killed the prophets and messiah ? And other people are then given the kingdom ? Who’s he talking about ????

Who is this about ?

“Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: and when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21:33-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Was nstead of tossing around non biblical phrases take a look at what’s being said in the scriptures ….

Who is he saying this to hundreds of years before ? Who’s he talking about skating and replacing with others ?

“I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts; a people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick; Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom, your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.

But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number.

Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.


And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:2-3, 6-7, 11-12, 15‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Who’s he saying all this stuff about ?

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:37-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the Bible’s pretty clear about this subject

and the key verse in those scriptures you point to is this one .

“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:6-8‬ ‭

n the Old Testament being a flesh descendant of Abraham a descendant of Jacob meant you were identified as israel . That’s not true anymore God identifies his people like this now

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If a person accepts Jesus and the gospel they are the children of Abraham it has nothing to do with them or testament flesh israel that’s over now he numbered them to the sword because of thier rebellion against him throughout the ot generations it’s all very detailed and written throughout the ot but no one really takes time to read it

its pretty clear that israel rejected the messiah and was then made desolate and zgod sent the gospel they rejected to all the world the believers of all nations are the people of God whether they are an Israelite or not
Lol
Your post vividly depicts the church replacing Israel.
But your doctrine of replacement theology needs a new label???
What label suits that doctrine?
 
Aug 22, 2024
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Yes it’s actually repetetively taught throughout the prophets try a read through Jeremiah or Ezekiel the prophets only confirm one another as time progressed until there’s a very clear story of what was to come when Jesus arrived that’s what the gospel is … the fulfillment of the prophets foretelling of what was going to happen if israel repented and obeyed or if they rebelled and wouldn’t repent
Unpack Hosea.
What does Gomer represent?
 

GaryA

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Or, I am showing how one event connects to another event that coincides with the Abomination of Desolation.
Nothing coincides with the AoD - except that which happened circa 167 B.C. at the time it was fulfilled. (Daniel 11:31)

If you have not yet seen it, please read post #10 in this thread.
 

lrs68

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Nothing coincides with the AoD - except that which happened circa 167 B.C. at the time it was fulfilled. (Daniel 11:31)

If you have not yet seen it, please read post #10 in this thread.
I know what event you are discussing but the fact is when this happens and war is allowed against God's people it only lasts 3 1\2 years not going on 1800+ years.
 

PaulThomson

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Yes but Jesus framed all the events that were to happen and the conclusion of evident in the destruction of the temple.

Well, I do not see truth as competition, it is quite evident for those willing to do the research that dispensation/futurist view is at its heart a system developed for worldly political reasons.
Matt. 24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us,
(1) when shall these things be? and
(2) what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, (1+2) Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows (ὠδίνων , i.e OdinOn, birth-pangs).
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
(2) 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Here is what I consider to be a reasonable perspective on this chapter.
Jesus dismisses the disciples fixation on the temple and temple worship, which will soon become defunct and an abomination, when the temple becomes instead that redeemed portion of humanity grafted into Christ. Jesus makes no reference to the imminent destruction of the temple in His answer recorded in Matthew, because Matthew's focus is on presenting Jesus as the promised coming King, the face of the lion. He focusses on the authority of Jesus contrasted with the other authorities that are at work in the earth. Matthew, therefore, ignores the first question, about the destruction of the temple and gives an overview of the strategies the powers will use to undermine the faith of the people of God, which overcomes the world. By 70 AD the people of God, having the mind of Christ, understood that they were the true temple of God, so they had no interest in the preservation or loss of the temple made by hands. Jesus in Matt. 24, having the mind of the Holy Spirit, likewise had no interest in when exactly the temple would fall. What Jesus was interested in was the building of His temple, the growth of His body over time, until its birth out from the ground, when He returns. HE describes this growrth and birth as reminiscent of the growth of a child in the womb and the birth-pangs that get closer and closer together as the time for delivery approaches.

These birth-pangs are wars and rumours of wars, famines. pestilences, earthquakes, persecutions, and false Christs. These will occur throughout history with increasing frequency as the birth approaches. One could regard the amomminatin that make sdesolate as the waters breaking, when the final stage of birth is irrevocably initiated. Even during the period after the waters break, there are borth pangs. But the abomination that makes desolate is a unique timestamp. Matthew says -

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation (that sees ALL these things happening) shall not pass, till ALL these things be fulfilled.

What I think Jesus means is that the generation that sees ALL these things happening, including the Abomination of Desolation, will see Jesus returning in glory. Most of these things will be happening intermittently from Pentecost to the first resurrection, but once ALL of them are happening together, including the AoD, Jeus will come in that generation.