Who is Elihu?

if he had fault in the middle of the book, in the midst of his trials, Job certainly came back to the right path, having taken to heart the rebuke of Elihu and of God. when God speaks to him, Job answers in all humility, confessing he had spoken in ignorance ((thread-relevant: agreeing with Elihu's criticism)), despising himself and repenting. Job is justified before God, and perhaps an important aspect of why, is that when he faced God, he did not do so with pride. equally important in this aspect of the narrative, is that pride, that is, self-justification ((in re: Elihu's singular criticism of Job's demeanor)) is the specific thing that God's scathing pronouncements to Job target. who are you to question Me? God asks -- and Job, righteously, answers i am no one, i spoke in error, i clap my hand over my mouth

bro these things are what we should be talking about. worldly politics is trash, and the evil one uses it to divide and distract us.
that's all i meant to say in the other thing.

no offense meant and no offense taken, on my part

Paul said we can use all things to win people.

Politics is people thinking they can lead themselves, pointing out how they are taking a broad way that leads to hell is one way to preach the gospel that Jesus Christ is Lord and that no one comes to the Father but by Him.

Also I would point out that I have 14,000 posts in my blog about the rapture, so despite discussing things like the Pandemic, the Vaccine Mandate, the assassination attempt on Trump, whether or not Trump is Jehu, and many other topics on these other threads many involving current events, over half of the posts I have made clearly are focused on the Bible.

The others may not be so clear, but they are journaling our step by step progress as the world heads to the Antichrist reign.

The NT says that believers are ambassadors, we are here to warn, to exhort, to encourage, to teach, to preach, to evangelize, etc.

When I was first saved I was told by the elders of the church where I met that they do not give Satan credit for anything. If something happens you don't blame Satan, instead you ask the Lord why it happened, why did He allow it.

This is fundamental to building our faith in Jesus as Lord of all. That is the key to all healing ministry and works of miracles.

It is also what Paul told us in Romans that all things work together for good to those that love God and are called according to purpose. Paul did not say "all things are good" only that they work together for good. They build your faith, they help you to see clearly, they help you to be sanctified, etc.

In your study, have you ever learned about how the bible was written? Have you ever encountered the fact that Hebrew poetry is an integral part of it? This is very common knowledge, and there are many places to learn more about it. And, no, nobody was talking about "poetic license". That is something different entirely.

I would encourage you to look into how the bible was written in Hebrew. It's quite important if you are aiming to understand Scripture as a whole.

Yes, I learned how the scripture was written. 2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

You seem to be avoiding the hard questions, like, when did Job lose his integrity? Or why did God give 6 chapters of this book to Elihu? Elihu said he was standing in the place of God. If that statement was not true, what reason can you possible give for God to assign 6 chapters to a liar?

Then read what Elihu concludes after Job 34:9 in the next two verses:

Job 34:10,11
“Therefore listen to me, you men of understanding:
Far be it from God to do wickedness,
And from the Almighty to commit iniquity.
For He repays man
...and then read what Elihu concludes immediately after in the next two verses in Job 34:10,11

Job 34:10,11
“Therefore listen to me, you men of understanding:
Far be it from God to do wickedness,
And from the Almighty to commit iniquity.
For He repays man according to his work,
And makes man to find a reward according to his way."

Elihu proclaims that man is repaid by God according to his work, which means for Job that he is suffering because of his sin. If Job had done well, he would not be suffering. Elihu does not believe that God would allow anyone to suffer unless they had done something wrong, which is exactly the same approach of Job's 3 friends. And yet, anyone who reads chapters 1 & 2 knows this is not the case with Job. He is not being punished for some sin. Elihu is wrong. God had already clearly stated from the beginning that Job's suffering is "without cause".

This is part of the danger of believing that Elihu is some prophet or saint or whatever. If you are misled by him, it requires the reader to then go back and rewrite the story we were given from the beginning. I have seen some who take his position go so far as to even contradict what God is recorded as saying. Yikes.

Do not be deceived by Elihu.

What Elihu says here is precisely what Jesus said, with what measure it will be measured again to you and as you have done it will be done to you.

When Job is praying for his kids lest they have sinned that is contrary to the way the Lord taught us to pray. It isn't proof that he is self righteous, but it certainly is consistent with someone who is self righteous. Then when He complains that he has done nothing wrong to deserve what happened to him that also is not proof, but again is consistent with someone who is self righteous.

When the self righteous guy was praying the Lord didn't say that his prayer was false. He didn't argue that he hadn't fasted, hadn't given his tithes, hadn't done everything he claimed to have done. However, what he did say is that he hadn't been justified either. We are all standing before God, the judge of all, Satan is our accuser and he is asking God to be allowed to take a crack at us. To be justified means that God denies Satan's pleas. The Publican knew he was a sinner, he was pleading for mercy, God granted him the mercy. The self righteous do not plead for mercy, and when we look at Job's prayer there is no plea for mercy. This is now the fourth point that is consistent with someone who is proud and self righteous. These four points are not proof, but if anyone was not the case that would have been proof that Job was not self righteous.

But then Job blames God for what happened to him in order to justify himself. That is proof of being self righteous. It took many chapters to finally squeeze that poison out of him. The point is that the end all and be all of being saved is not simply to be washed of our sins and to receive God's mercy. We are supposed to go on from there. What did God ask Job? Do you have an arm like God, do you have a voice like God. We were created in the image and likeness of God. We are supposed to express God. Jesus dwells within us. We are supposed to testify, like Paul, that it is no longer I that live but Christ that lives in me. Christ is "the anointed one", the one who is king of kings and Lord of Lords. God describes Leviathan to Job and makes it very clear that Job has no chance against Leviathan, absolutely no chance. However, God created Leviathan so the point is also that God has no problem dealing with Leviathan. instead of being proud and self righteous, open your eyes, see that we are in a spiritual warfare that we cannot possibly win without Jesus Christ, be filled with Jesus Christ who is the image of the invisible God.

nope, not necessarily.
Elihu has already explained that God uses suffering to teach us, not just as punishment for sin.

Elihu's only criticism of Jobs actions is that he had been proud, that Job had been justifying himself rather than God. he does not accuse Job of sin nor does he say his suffering has been punishment.

he is here explaining that it is wrong to think it doesn't matter if you are righteous or not, as Job's lament had implied, and Jobs three friends had failed to cointermanand.

this isn't an accusation against Job. it's a defense of God.

Elihus admomishment that Job must wait for justice ((instead of complaining)) doesn't jive with your assessment that he is accusing Job of being punished for his sin.

"Without cause"-----You are taking this statement out of context. Satan said, Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. The Hebrew says, "and he will bless not you to your face". This was not God's cause, but rather Satan's cause. God does not tell us why he allowed Job to lose his possessions. Job blessed God after this first test, but Job did not bless God after the second test.

We need to look at the Old Testament with the doctrine of the New Testament. God refers to Job's righteousness. Does the New Testament teach that our own righteousness is good? Has any man ever had perfect righteousness? Or should we rather look at what God has said about Job. God said Job was blameless. I read that as God saying he wouldn't hold Job accountable because he was doing it without knowledge. What does God hold us accountable for? God does not hold us accountable for sin. God holds us accountable for rejecting God's righteousness, and we know from the New Testament that Jesus Christ is that righteousness. Job parallels Israel in that Paul said, "My heart's desire for Israel is that they might be saved, for they have a zeal for God, but without knowledge, and going about to establish their own righteousness have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God."

If God held us accountable for sin, we would all go to Hell.

Elihu said he was standing in God's place. If you say Elihu was lying you have to answer the question, why would God give Elihu six chapters in this beautiful book?

Yes, of course, 2 Timothy3:16 is what we believe about Scripture. Are you afraid that poetry is a part of it?

As for the questions you raised, I have addressed these and answered them before, but I'm happy to do it again for you in case you missed it somehow.

1. When did Job lose his integrity? I've answered this a couple of times now, but according to what is written in the text after the second test in Job 2:9, he doesn't lose his integrity. It is written that he "maintains his integrity". Is your position then that you disagree with what is written?

2. Why did God give 6 chapters to Elihu? While the amount of words is something to consider, the substance of what is said should be considered as more important. Additionally, your logic in this regard falls apart rather quickly as you have been committed to excoriating Job for his words, and the amount of Job's words far outweighs the amount of Elihu's. If Job is so awful, according to your reasoning, why does God give him 20 chapters? See? I'm sorry, it's just not a strong argument.

3. What reason can I possibly give for God to assign 6 chapters to a liar? Like the other Wisdom books of Proverbs and Ecclesiastes, I believe this Scripture is given us by God to help us learn wisdom, and to help teach us to discern good from evil. Consider Solomon's prayer in 1 Kings 3:9, "Therefore give to Your servant an understanding heart to judge Your people, that I may discern between good and evil."

Perhaps this is why Elihu is so mysterious, as the gentleman who launched this thread has pointed out. If he was so easy to figure out, this thread and this discussion might not exist. So perhaps Elihu is difficult to grasp for a reason. Perhaps what we have to learn from reading his words is how to listen more closely, more carefully, and be able to discern right from wrong. As Job himself said in Job 12:11 "Does not the ear test words and the mouth taste its food?"

It seems like the lovers of Elihu simply jump to one conclusion and refuse to consider he just might be evil. What's worrisome is that those in ardent support of Elihu seem to have to go back and change the basic elements of the story as laid out in the beginning and even contradict things God has said.

no, Elihu is angry with Jobs friends specifically because they had condemned Job.


this is inconsistent with your assessment of him. if what you say about him were true, he would be happy with Jobs friends - instead exactly the opposite is true.

Elihu is also not upset with Job over sin - he is upset with Job because Job had been self-centered in his trial rather than continuing in the way he had begun, saying 'the LORD gives and takes away, still I will praise the LORD'

remember, after God confronted Job, Job repented
therefore Job had something to repent of: that one thing Elihu also confronted him with: that he spoke without knowledge, that he should not have complained, but continually praised God in his suffering.

perhaps you are not unlike Job. if you refuse to accept the Elihu that comes before, you must face God who cones after. is this not the way of Israel? Christ came, mediating, showing mercy, and they refused Him. so He will come next in power and judgement, and they will clap their hands over their mouths and repent.

I am afraid that poetry would be just a rabbit hole. You have not stated how poetry affects the meaning of the words in this book.



In the first test it was God and not Job that stated Job had retained his integrity. In the second test it was Job that implied that he retained his integrity. The scripture says that in all this Job did not sin with his lips, Where-as in the first test Job is cleared of sinning in any form. Remember when Job stated that his sons may have cursed God in their hearts. There are two methods for cursing God. One with the lips and one with the heart. Isa 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

Job said this in Job 27:6 My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live.

Job was still claiming to retain his integrity in the 27th chapter, but how does that coincide with Job saying Job 40:4 Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth, and in Job 42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

If Job is saying he is vile and abhors himself, where did his integrity go, and when?

he appears to have stopped justifying himself

Then that begs the question: when did Job fall? I believe Job fell after the second test. The test was that Job would curse God to his face after being tried. Job did not do that. But what about his heart? Job passed as far as his lips were concerned, and in this Satan was wrong, but what if Job failed the heart test. Satan would not have understood this because only God can see the heart.
Notice what scripture says about Job after the second test. Job 2:8 And he took him a potsherd to scrape himself withal; and he sat down among the ashes.

At first glance we would say, ah poor Job look at him suffering so, and his sores are so bad he has to scrape himself with a piece of broken pottery. But what is God telling us? For the answer we have to turn to scripture.

What is a potsherd according to scripture? It is a vessel of clay. Isn't it interesting that we are vessels of clay. When we go to the law, we learn that vessels of clay, that have contained the sin offering, must be broken. They become potsherds. We turn to Isaiah, and we see what God has to say about potsherds.

Isa 45:9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

Remember that God states Job was striving with him in Job 40:2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it. (The words "contend" and "strive" are the same Hebrew word.)

Remember when Job said,

Job 3:2-10 And Job spake, and said, Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived. Let that day be darkness; let not God regard it from above, neither let the light shine upon it. Let darkness and the shadow of death stain it; let a cloud dwell upon it; let the blackness of the day terrify it. As for that night, let darkness seize upon it; let it not be joined unto the days of the year, let it not come into the number of the months. Lo, let that night be solitary, let no joyful voice come therein. Let them curse it that curse the day, who are ready to raise up their mourning. Let the stars of the twilight thereof be dark; let it look for light, but have none; neither let it see the dawning of the day: Because it shut not up the doors of my mother's womb, nor hid sorrow from mine eyes. Job has said to God why have you made me, and God has warned In Isaiah 45 about questioning what he has made. Job had offended God by questioning what God had made.

Job is the potsherd, and his three friends are the potsherds he is striving with. God has a sense of humor, and it is shown when God gives us a picture of Job scraping himself with a potsherd.

I think the more important question is why did God remove the hedge of protection and allow Satan to do all these things? We have a promise that Jesus is our strong tower, we can run into Him and be safe. So why was Job not in that strong tower?

That only happens if we have been washed in the blood, which means we have a relationship with God. How are we made right with God? Is it not by putting on God's righteousness? Job did not know God, or how to find him. Job did not know how to be right with God. Job exalted his own righteousness above that of God's righteousness. Job did not know God until the 42 chapter when he said, I have only heard of you, but now I see you.

Job 9:2 I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God?

Job 9:24 The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he?

Job 40:8 Will you also disannul my judgment? will you condemn me, that you mayest be righteous?

Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.

God removed the hedge because after giving Job many warnings through visions in the night Job was still heading for the pit.

Job 7:14 Then thou scarest me with dreams, and terrifiest me through visions:

Job 33:14-24 For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not. In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed; Then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction, That he may withdraw man from his purpose, and hide pride from man. He keepeth back his soul from the pit, and his life from perishing by the sword. He is chastened also with pain upon his bed, and the multitude of his bones with strong pain: So that his life abhorreth bread, and his soul dainty meat. His flesh is consumed away, that it cannot be seen; and his bones that were not seen stick out. Yea, his soul draweth near unto the grave, and his life to the destroyers. If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness: Then he is gracious unto him, and saith, Deliver him from going down to the pit: I have found a ransom.

Jesus Christ is that ransom.