Understanding God’s election

Genesis 6:5

Early on, scripture proclaims that there is nothing good in man.

I look at things in 2 viewpoints.

1. The Prophets, Jesus, Disciples were mostly addressing people like myself, Jews born into families where God is a vital part and structure of the family.

2. Paul seems to be addressing people just the opposite.

I'm so glad my Gospel is from Jesus and not the Gentile Gospel from Paul.

I'm so glad my Gospel is from Jesus and not the Gentile Gospel from Paul.

NKJ Gen6:8-9 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. 9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

So Christians can do nothing apart from Jesus, but unregenerate individuals can?

Your examples are fine, but they don't teach free will. Someone who is a slave to Satan makes choices, but those choices are influenced by him. The Bible teaches that none seek after God. So if someone does seek after God, God must be at work in them. Because a particular passage shows individuals making choices doesn't negate those choices being made according to outside influence. One is either in the flesh or in the spirit. Since unsaved individuals can only walk according to the flesh, they cannot seek for God WITH ALL THEIR HEARTS when their hearts are made of stone. To deny what the Bible teaches concerning the natural fallen man is the cause of much error.

I agree! God's grace is irresistible!

The Perspective from Heaven and God's Law for your consideration re: Rom3:11 seeking God:

• In Rom3:1 Paul begins a section discussing how the Jews have God's words.
• In Rom3:3 Paul deals with Jews in unbelief do not make "the faith of/from God" unproductive/powerless.
• After dealing with some rhetorical questions, in Rom3:9 Paul says all Jews and Greeks are "under sin". If we follow this language in Scripture, it ultimately connects with being under Law which Paul will deal with in part in Rom3:19 and which Law is part of what the Jews have in writing per Rom3:1 and Rom3:3.
• What Paul is doing in Rom3:10-18 is derived from the Psalms, also part of God's words the Jews have that say God looks down from Heaven at a point (see mainly Ps14). Thus, from God's perspective and the same perspective contained in His Law that says if men break one commandment, then they break them all as James3:10 says, this is what God sees. From God's perfect perspective, from the perspective of His perfect Law, He's speaking of the general condition of mankind under sin, under Law. Men should be always and continually seeking God, always and continually be righteous, etc., but they're not.
• This does not preclude the fact that there are men of faith on the earth and always have been since Abel, nor the fact that some men are said to be righteous and blameless in accordance with God's Law and its sacrifices for sin(s) pre-Christ, nor that the several Scriptures you posted speak of men seeking God, nor the fact that Psalm14 from which Paul is in part drawing, is speaking of fools that say there is no God and midway through speaks of God's people. This duality of men is from the Garden on, and it is part of what Paul has been establishing from Rom1:1 through Rom2:29.
• I see this section of Rom3 being the perspective of perfectly righteous and holy God and His holy Law looking at men under sin under Law who can have a form of pre-Christ righteousness in belief in God, seeking Him and living imperfectly under God Law under sin awaiting the Righteousness from God in Christ Jesus, which Paul will get into next, but from the Divine perspective this imperfect condition of man is not His desire, just as sacrifices for sins was not His ultimate will.

That's a shame.

Are you saying that Paul's writing should be erased from the Bible?

I'll get right on it!

I am not talking about the LAW.

Where does your Gospel come from? Mine is from the Gospels. How is that shameful?

To deny?

I am quoting the Prophets, Jesus, Disciples. The Bible is supposed to be about Jesus and I am quoting Him.

Paul is in the verse that says no man [continually] seeks after God. Once that's understood and the Divine perspective is understood the seeming contradiction about seeking God goes away.

So why Does Paul claim in Acts 17 that God made man to [in Verse 27 specifically] that they (man) should seek God?


26 and he made of one every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed seasons, and the bounds of their habitation;

27 that they should seek God, if haply they might feel after him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us:

....Jesus said, Not MY WILL be done but Your Will be done.

Free Will 100%

You need the full counsel of God.

What do you make of all the verses in the Bible that speak of the enslaved state of the natural man and all his limitations? Don't you consider them? They paint a picture of an individual as spiritually dead, being dominated, and doomed. Read Ephesians 2:1-3 again. Then look at verse 4. It doesn't say...but man overcame these things. It says...but God...quickened us...

The Bible is definitely about Christ and what He has done. So why do you focus on what people do?

So why Does Paul claim in Acts 17 that God made man to [in Verse 27 specifically] that they (man) should seek God?


26 and he made of one every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed seasons, and the bounds of their habitation;

27 that they should seek God, if haply they might feel after him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us:

Did you read what I posted? I support you on this matter of seeking and I explained why via from what perspective Paul is writing in Rom3:11.

So, in your universe "should" = "would"?

Genesis 6:5

Early on, scripture proclaims that there is nothing good in man. His thoughts which originate from the heart are evil continually. If this is true, then man must be given a new heart in order to trust/believe in Christ.
The FWers seem to think that we receive a new heart after coming to faith through our own power/decision. (No help needed). But I believe that this is putting the cart before the horse.
This new heart is freely given to God's elect and it is not something which was desired or ask for. It is a gift freely given by the grace of God and cannot be rejected.
This is the work of the Holy Spirit who draws us to Christ.

Fwers simply have this need to believe they do all things in their own power, and thus attempt to rob God of His glory! This is certainly an incorrect way of thinking, similar to squatting with your spurs on!.