Understanding God’s election

So, in your universe "should" = "would"?

I just wanted to post this Verse because Paul in places say God created man to seek Him or shows other examples and then in other places states the very opposite. That is why I tend to follow the words in the 4 Gospels.

If God is Sovereign as YOU CLAIM and God cannot fail means if He made people to seek Him they have to be doing it.

I am focusing on the idealism behind Scriptural interpretation.

But as I mentioned in my prior post from Paul, if God made man to seek God, then why is it believed when the same man says they don't?

Because though God made man with free will, sin made man captive.

Yet 3 verses later there is Noah - a man of Faith:

NKJ Gen6:8-9 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. 9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

NKJ Heb11:6-7 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. 7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

But God made man to seek Him so man must be doing it sometimes or that makes God inept in His abilities.

But God made man to seek Him so man must be doing it sometimes or that makes God inept in His abilities.

No, it means the estate of man was altered as a result of sin.

No man can come to Christ unless God's grace [efficaciously] draws him.

Where does your Gospel come from? Mine is from the Gospels. How is that shameful?

Acts 17 makes no mention of anything you both have mentioned.

Acts 17 makes no mention of anything you both have mentioned.

Noah is a great example of the remnant chosen of God by his saving grace (Rom 11:5).

Your question brings up more complexities than you may be looking for.

Off the top of my head, if we study things like the Divine Counsel, God at times in Heaven requests input and decisions from His Counsel. So, in such cases it is God's will to solicit thoughts, input, and decisions and choices from His Counsel from which He will agree or disagree. We can see similarity in how God dealt with Abraham re: Sodom.

Apparently in the past He allowed a portion of the angelic realm to choose to rebel against Him. I don't think it was His will for them to rebel, but it was His will to allow them to choose to do so.

So, I'd say that God does act unilaterally and allows reasoning and choices in the Heavenly realm in similar fashion to what He does here.

So, it looks to me like His will in Heaven is not as simplistic as you may be looking for. In the end, though, based at minimum upon this prayer structure from Jesus I'd have to say Heaven where He sits is greatly preferable to the chaos God has allowed here for a time.

Jesus in Matt6:9 actually commands to pray as He states in the following verses. Not all will choose to pray as He commands.

Men's prayers are actually in the form of commands to God, which carries the concept of pleas, deep longings, reverent requests, urgency and desire. It seems Jesus is instructing that the ultimate order in Heaven is what we should deeply desire here and that our wills should be aligned with God's will.

So, God seems to allow and solicit choice in Heaven as He does here. Heaven seems to be maintained ultimately better and even Satan looks to have had to maintain some decorum in the Heavenly courts. Earth has been for some time a sandbox for unruly volitional creatures to play out the evil that God will ultimately rid His creation of.

No man can come to Christ unless God's grace [efficaciously] draws him.

Acts 17 isn't the full counsel of God, but if you read carefully it never states men actually seek after God, and that despite the fact that God has always been near. And Paul points out the limitations God has placed on all.

Or a man who God had made Himself known to, who by that grace then believed in God, and thereby became one of His chosen.

So you just confessed that man does NOT need God's grace/power to seek him. Not surprised! If you did anything less that would undoubtedly offend your god Volition.

So, God chose Adam AFTER Adam first chose God? Typical, convoluted, absurd, twisted, perverted FWT thinking! One would logically think that the logical order of things is that God chose Noah to be the recipient of saving knowledge of Himself solely by the power of His own grace.

Jesus didn't pray that the will of God and his divine counsel's will be done on earth as it is in heaven, did he?

And I thought opinions were solicited, but now you're telling us that God solicits man's "freewill" choices? I wonder how that would work since God works all things according to the counsel of His OWN will (Eph 1:11)?