Is this a conflict?

biblestudent78 · May 13, 2026

John 5 -13
Jesus said, “No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven – the Son of Man.”

Genesis 5:24 states that Enoch "walked faithfully with God; then he was no more, because God took him away". Hebrews 11:5 confirms he was taken so he would not experience death. Elijah: 2 Kings 2:11 describes Elijah being taken up to heaven in a whirlwind with a chariot of fire.

Aaron56 · May 13, 2026

There are at least three heavens.

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

Paul wrote: "I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven."

The distinction seems to be this:
1st heaven = the sky and space in the natural realm
2nd heaven = the unseen realm of the spirit and spirit beings
3rd heaven = the Throne of God, the "Heaven of God"

Does that help?

JacobGilbert · May 13, 2026

No, it’s not a conflict.

In John 3:13, Jesus is declaring His unique divine origin and authority. He alone came down from heaven and can truly reveal heavenly things. Enoch and Elijah didn’t ascend by their own power, they were taken by God.

Jesus isn’t giving a list of every supernatural event. He’s revealing who He is, the only one who bridges heaven and earth.

Omegatime · May 13, 2026

Some relate Paradise as Heaven above but IMO it is in the earth.

Ephesians 4:9
(In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower parts of the earth?

Pilgrimshope · May 13, 2026

I would suggest the term “ ascended “ differentiates Jesus the son of man

“Ascended is the past tense and past participle of the verb ascend, meaning to have moved upward, climbed, or risen to a higher position, rank, or degree”
so you have jesus ….

“Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m not sure this is true of anyone else let’s look at Enoch for instance he was “ translated by faith “

“By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; ( very different terminology from Enoch ascended into heaven and descended giving gifts to men ) and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬
i think the doctrine teaches us that “only Jesus ascended to heaven “ but others have been translated by faith such as Enoch , who is said by scripture to have never seen death because of faith and that the lord translated him being pleased by Enoch who walked with him

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The same was in the beginning with God.

All things were made by him; In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1-4, ‭KJV‬‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; ….for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.”

Jesus the son of man ascended to the throne of heaven with all authority on earth and in heaven

“I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭7:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Which is his higher position to which he ascended by his perfect life.

Things like this aren’t said of anyone else

“hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, This day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, And he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: A sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; Therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee With the oil of gladness above thy fellows.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭1:2-6, 8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There we’re other men who pleased God but none but Jesus had the identity and power to ascend from earth into the heavens even long before hand he was translating men but they weren’t able to ascend without him , he ascended so we can be translated and saved it’s be of the reasons this is true

“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

enoch couldn’t have avoided death without faith in God but Christ is the source of the life coursing through man’s borns and soul and the one who still promises by faith we can never see death as Enoch was faithful and never saw death

ChristRoseFromTheDead · May 13, 2026

I think what Jesus meant by this oddly worded verse

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. John 3:13

is in reference to this

For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. Deuteronomy 30:11-14

In other words, I think he's saying that no man can ascend to heaven to learn the way of righteousness, but only the one who descended from the bosom of the father, ie, himself, can explain the will of God.

sawdust · May 13, 2026

People assume Enoch went to heaven, as in God's abode, but it doesn't say so. God more likely took him and placed him in the Paradise side of Sheol where he would await the Cross like all the other OT saints.

Doesn't say which heaven Elijah was caught up to, could well have been the second heaven and he too was placed with the rest of the saints in Sheol.

tablet123 · May 13, 2026

It is obvious Enoch and Elijah did not go to the heaven Jesus went to because He was the first one there according to His humanity.

Which no human could go there before the man Christ Jesus.

For to be there all sins must be washed away which no person's sins were washed away until Jesus shed His blood.

And no person could enter until Jesus applied the blood to the mercy seat in that heaven.

So Enoch and Elijah was in a different place than where Jesus went in heaven.

Jesus said the thief on the cross would be with Him in paradise that day.

But Jesus did not raise from the grave until 3 days later.

So He could of not went to where Jesus was going as the first human to enter.

But He would be with Jesus as Him being God for His Spirit is outside that body.

The parable of Lazarus and the rich man the rich man was in Abraham's bosom but it is not where Jesus went.

Paul talks of a 3rd heaven which is where Jesus went and then John went there in spirit to receive revelation.

So Enoch and Elijah would of had to be somewhere else besides there when they were caught up.

So where were they when they were caught up.

Because no person ascended in to heaven first but the man Christ Jesus who could be in heaven and earth at the same time according to His deity.

studentoftheword · May 13, 2026

And Jesus Doesn't Lie Folks ---------Jesus came under Mosaic Covenant of the Law ----No Old Testament Saint entered the 3rd heaven where God resides --

-the Old Testament Saints went to Paradise -----which was located in the upper region of Hell ----called Abraham's Bosom -----

The Hebrew word for heaven has a couple of meanings in Scripture ------it does not always mean the 3rd heaven where God resides ------

it just says Elijah was taken to Heaven ----it doesn't say he was taken to the 3rd Heaven where God resides ---

2 Kings 2:11

The Lord Takes Elijah Into Heaven

11 Elijah and Elisha were walking and talking together. Suddenly, some horses and a chariot came and separated Elijah from Elisha. The horses and the chariot were like fire. Then Elijah was carried up into heaven in a whirlwind.

So we see here heaven means SKY -----

Lexical Summary
shamayim: Heaven(s), sky

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance

air, astrologer, heavens

shameh {shaw-meh'}; from an unused root meaning to be lofty; the sky (as aloft; the dual perhaps alluding to the visible arch in which the clouds move, as well as to the higher ether where the celestial bodies revolve) -- air, X astrologer, heaven

If Enoch and Elijah were taken to God's 3rd Heaven ----then that would make Jesus a Liar ---and that makes no sense ----

AI

Abraham's bosom is a place of paradise, comfort, and rest for the righteous dead, as depicted in Jesus' parable of the rich man and Lazarus [Luke 16:19-31]. It represented a state of blessedness, separate from torment, where the faithful awaited the final resurrection

Post-Resurrection: after Jesus' death and resurrection, those in Abraham's bosom were brought into heaven, rendering it a temporary abode for those who died before Christ.

Location: , temporary part of Hades (Sheol) reserved for the righteous before Christ’s ascension.

Synonym for Paradise: It is often equated with "paradise," the place of peace for departed spirits before they entered heaven.

Where did Old Testament believers/saints go when they died? | GotQuestions.org

Where did Old Testament believers/saints go when they died? Did Old Testament believers go to Paradise / Hades / Sheol when they died?

www.gotquestions.org

Where did Old Testament believers/saints go when they died?

Ceph · May 13, 2026

All the saints are from heaven. We were written in the book of life from the foundation of the world.

"Before Abraham was, I AM"

"I in him, and he in Me"

Lovette · May 13, 2026

But wasn't Jesus himself taken up by God as well?

Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.” (Acts 1:9-11)

biblestudent78 · May 13, 2026

Where did your idea of a 3rd heaven come from? For that matter what is the 1st, and 2nd? At Jesus transfiguration: The two Old Testament figures present at the Transfiguration of Jesus were Moses and Elijah.Their presence on the mountain with Jesus, Peter, James, and John is detailed in the Gospels (Matthew 17, Mark 9, and Luke 9) and holds deep theological significance. So what "heaven" were Moses and Elijah from?

studentoftheword · May 14, 2026

The Bible mentions three heavens, a concept largely interpreted from 2 Corinthians 12:2, where the Apostle Paul mentions being caught up to the "third heaven." These are generally understood as: 1) the atmospheric heaven (sky/clouds), 2) the celestial heaven (outer space/stars), and 3) the spiritual heaven (the dwelling place of God)

The Three Heavens Explained

First Heaven: The Atmosphere
This is the sky immediately surrounding the earth, often referred to as the "expanse" or atmosphere where birds fly and clouds gather.

Biblical Reference: Genesis 1:20 describes the birds flying "above the earth across the expanse of the heavens."

Second Heaven: Outer Space
This refers to the vast expanse beyond the atmosphere, containing the sun, moon, planets, and stars.

Biblical Reference: Psalm 8:3 mentions the "moon and stars, which you have set in place," and Deuteronomy 11:11 speaks of the "stars of heaven."

Third Heaven: The Dwelling Place of God
This is the spiritual realm, often described as Paradise, the "heaven of heavens," or the place where God's throne exists. Paul describes this as a place beyond the physical universe.

Biblical Reference: 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 refers to being caught up to the "third heaven" or "Paradise.

What Are the Three Heavens?

When the term "heaven" is not used symbolically in Scripture, it usually refers to one of three realms. (1) Our Immediate Atmosphere (2) Outer Space

www.blueletterbible.org

read all yourself

When the term "heaven" is not used symbolically in Scripture, it usually refers to one of three realms.

(1) Our Immediate Atmosphere

(2) Outer Space (The Sun, Moon, And Stars)

(3) The Home Of God

rewriter · May 14, 2026

This is one of many problematic passages that must be reconciled. There is no clearly right or wrong understanding, just various solutions based on how one wishes to interpret various other parts of scripture and understand the reality that human language cannot properly express. Now one can be more or less consistent with how they deal with such problematic passages, but getting the true answers is likely beyond our human abilites.

studentoftheword · May 14, 2026

They would have been in Abraham's Bosom --with the Other Old Testament Saints

No sinner can enter God's heaven -----these Saints were under the sacrificial Atonement which only covered Sin for a year and that was done so they could come near God ---Not to go to Heaven ----

God is not a Respecter of Persons and so no Saint was better than any other Saint --No Saint went to God's domain -----If you do your research there is a Spiritual reason why God took Enoch and Elijah the way He did ------go and do some Spiritual research on that yourself

Eternal live in the Old Testament was not in play jet -----Only the Blood of Jesus gives us the Privilage to go to God's Domain ---and Jesus had not died yet ----

Jesus took the Old Testaments Saints to Heaven ---when He assented to Heaven Himself -----Jesus went to hell and Preached to the Dead Saints in Abraham's Bosom -----

Bible Questions Answered | GotQuestions.org

Bible Questions Answered by GotQuestions.org! Fast and accurate answers to all your Bible Questions!

www.gotquestions.org

did-Jesus-go-to-hell.html

lrs68 · May 14, 2026

Didn't read every post in case this has been mentioned but Enoch and Elijah went to Heaven and The WORD made flesh came from Heaven but did return back to Heaven. So no conflict between what Yeshua did with what Enoch and Elijah did.

PaulThomson · May 14, 2026

It is my understanding that Jesus did not say “No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven – the Son of Man.” I read John 3:13-21 as John’s commentary, not as Jesus words to Nicodemas. I say this because later in his gospel John states that Jesus had not yet ascended. John 20:17, but from John’s perspective as he was writing his gospel, Jesus was seated in heaven. There is also a change in the narrative voice from Jesus speaking in the first person ("I, we") until 3:12, and then John speaking of Jesus in the third person ("the son of man).

God took Moses, but buried his body in a secret place. God Caught up Philip bodily into the sky and he found himself bodily alive at Azatos. God caught up Paul into the third heaven, but Paul was still alive on earth afterwards to write about it. God caught up John into heaven to see visions, but was later still on earth to write about what he saw. God caught up Elijah bodily into the sky, but we are not told where his body ended up. It is possible that Enoch’s soul and spirit were taken directly to heaven instead of descending into sheol like other souls awaiting Jesus’ resurrection, but his body cold have be buried by God somewhere. "Not see death" could mean "not seeing the angel of death” in sheol, as all other dead humans before the flood experienced.

So, personally, I do not see a necessary contradiction there.

studentoftheword · May 14, 2026

The Old Testament saints were not God's heaven bound --folks --no one was God Heaven Ready until Jesus died and was Resurrected -----as their sins were only covered for one year ---they still had the Sin nature ----only the Holy Spirit indwelling in us Changes our Corrupt Nature to a Holy nature --only Jesus Blood covers sin completely for past --present and future sins ------not the blood of animals ------which the Old Testament Saints were under ---they had to strive to be seen as righteous in God's eyes by Obeying God ---this is not Grace ---this is works -------

Revelation 21 -----Nothing unclean can enter God's heaven -----

indenturedservant · May 14, 2026

It could be as simple as "Jesus ascended, the others were taken."

No one has, or can, ascend on their own.

biblestudent78 · May 14, 2026

So you are saying that heaven 1 and 2 are just part of our physical world? Are you saying that those who went directly to "heaven" are actually flying around with birds or are floating around in the physical universe? Is it possible our advanced space based telescopes might find these Hebrews who went to heaven but not God' real actual heaven and because we don't see them flying with birds in heaven #1 and can't be in heaven #3 as you claim only The Father, Son and Holy Spirit can to live there ( I find your "Scriptural references weak) thus we should detect all the heavenly floaters in our actual physical universe with our space tools?

Is this a conflict?

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2 Kings 2:11​

The Lord Takes Elijah Into Heaven​

Where did Old Testament believers/saints go when they died?​

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2 Kings 2:11​

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The Lord Takes Elijah Into Heaven​

Where did Old Testament believers/saints go when they died?​

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2 Kings 2:11

The Lord Takes Elijah Into Heaven

Where did Old Testament believers/saints go when they died?

2 Kings 2:11

The Lord Takes Elijah Into Heaven

Where did Old Testament believers/saints go when they died?