Age?

GaryA said:

This is not about a father giving away his daughter in marriage - it is about a betrothed husband and wife. In modern terms, it is saying that if a man and woman are engaged to be married - but, he "cannot wait" until the two of them are married - that he should "go ahead" with "answering" his "need" - and, they should "go ahead" and get married.

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Thank you for your perspective.
I read the passage again with that in mind because sometimes I change my mind since I am always learning. I very rarely consult commentaries but decided to here to get another opinion. For what it's worth, every one of the commentaries agreed with my explanation. I didn't cherry pick. There was a list on my KJ E-Bible site.

That doesn't matter as far as my main point. My reason for mentioning this passage is because it describes the age of marriage. Two reasons why I thought it relevant was because of original poster's question.

A. Age has no biblical relevance as long as they are adults and is not an issue with God. (Rainbow flag "churches" care less what God says so I will not even go there now.
It is a cultural thing and everyone has an opinion. Very few search the Scriptures to see what the Lord Who instituted marriage says about the matter.
I only read the original post an title before speaking. I doubtless offended someone and perhaps others since I did not regard their comments. That was not my desire, but I am frank and honest. One of many benefits of a mature POV is that you see beyond the public examples of failed marriages and weak preachers. IMHO, that's what is so creepy to me: marriages that are disposable like aluminum cans and pastors that build families on such teaching. I'm not looking down on any individuals, but come on folks there's a problem and it sure ain't the age gaps in this country!

B. I made the point of adulthood because one of the world's largest religions has a very sad custom of following their prophet Mohammad. He married, in the sense you described, Isha a six year old and consummated that at 9 years old.

The Bible describes marriage between one man and one woman. Today that institution is desecrated with divorce&remarriage examples over and over and over and over again by popular mega church pastors. Of course the typical member of such churches justify that for their own as I just witnessed once again in a couple with the 70(?) year old husband initiating a divorce with his young pretty wife. From the way they talked on their podcast, I thought they were close. A month ago she made the comment out of the blue how she liked his [awesome] body right in front of the live stream.
He wasn't showing anything outside of weapons.
Nothing indecent, he was discussing guns, ammo and hunting. She was helping. Now they are getting a divorce! Tragic.
At least they got a clear gospel witness the other day. If they both get/got saved, perhaps they will reconcile.

GaryA said:

This is not about a father giving away his daughter in marriage - it is about a betrothed husband and wife. In modern terms, it is saying that if a man and woman are engaged to be married - but, he "cannot wait" until the two of them are married - that he should "go ahead" with "answering" his "need" - and, they should "go ahead" and get married.

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So the scripture is saying just get married, don't wait for too long?

GaryA said:

This is not about a father giving away his daughter in marriage - it is about a betrothed husband and wife. In modern terms, it is saying that if a man and woman are engaged to be married - but, he "cannot wait" until the two of them are married - that he should "go ahead" with "answering" his "need" - and, they should "go ahead" and get married.

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yep, don't know where @HealthAndHappiness got the father giving away his daughter in marriage from. Thats just a wedding custom that really got nothing to do with scripture. Some daughters were married but they didn't leave home. According to Genesis, it was the man(son) that was supposed to leave his parents and cleave to his wife, not the daughter being 'given away' to find a husband.

But yea anyway I find that custom strange and nothing to do with the scripture mentioned about a bethrothed yet to be married couple. 'trouble in the flesh' is children lol
and' power over his own will' meaning....?

I have my own interpretation....
Ok lets say you busting to go toilet. Most people can regulate their toilet times. They know when they need to go and can wait and do their business at the appropriate times. They not going to do it on the street in front of everyone. They will wait to have a place thats private and be hygienic about it.

Well thats kind of like what people need to do with their fleshly desires. lol

I think the bigger question is...does the relationship and marriage glorify God?

@Lanolin said, "yep, don't know where @HealthAndHappiness got the father giving away his daughter in marriage from. Thats just a wedding custom that really got nothing to do with scripture. Some daughters were married but they didn't leave home. "

Have you read Genesis 24 ?
The daughter belongs to her father. She should remain under his protection and supervision until the virgin is given to her husband. That goes against the world's ways, but you can read details here. I suggest the entire chapter.

Genesis chapter 24

Lanolin said:

Some daughters were married but they didn't leave home. According to Genesis, it was the man(son) that was supposed to leave his parents and cleave to his wife, not the daughter being 'given away' to find a husband.

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The chapter in Genesis that you are referring to is the absolute wrong way for the father to deal with his daughter and son in law. The Scriptures could not be more clear.
Not only is the man to leave his parents and cleave to his wife, but SHE is to leave her parents and cleave to him as well. Do you want the New Testament to provide more on this?


I made the mistake of attending a non-denominational church who's pastor was confused about marriage too. He destroyed families with his false teaching. I found out that he and his wife divorced, so he was teaching false doctrine to justify his sins, remarriage, and continuance to pastor.
My fiancee would have had an awesome marriage if she had not idolized the man and was open to the clear doctrines about marriage. She gravitated to his lies and others.

The Lord answered all of my prayers, but she threw away her hopes and dreams cascading into sins until she ended up losing God's highest and best for her life and others. She threw away a lifetime of blessings for her season of sins. Even her physical appearance changed dramatically from a slender incredibly lovely supermodel status with the longest natural blonde hair below her waist to a person difficult to look at just overnight.
That was a physical manifestation of an inner problem....an incredible curse that she brought on herself.

Back to Genesis, Laban her father agreed to the fact that Jacob was worthy to marry his daughter Rachel. Rather than allowing their immediate marriage as described in the scriptures that I already posted, he kept her home. Her dad was a wicked man who kept her home to string along the labor of Jacob for 7 years of his life! He was a pathological liar, broke his word over and over again to use him.
That happened to me so I know how the guy felt. Never again!

Then Laban did a bait and switch with his girls, sneaking his ugly 'tender eyed" one, veiled her to deceive him and said, Nope, too late, you slept with her so you can't give her back.
Besides it's our custom that the older must marry before the younger so you gotta stick around and work for me another 7 years!
What a dirt bag. This was in NO way God's will.

Read Genesis chapter 29

Oh ok - thats a weird interpretation again....

Well her married off his eldest and youngest daughter - ie two daughters which didn't bode well for Jacob (now Israel) and God didn't do anything to stop that..so ??

Weren't Jacob and Laban RELATED? Laban was Jacob's Uncle, so Rachel was his cousin? Laban offered Jacob a job, and was going to pay him, but Jacob said he would serve him 7 years (for nothing) if he could have Rachel (instead of wages)

The 'custom' was the eldest to be given away first...not the youngest.


10And it came to pass, when Jacob saw Rachel the daughter of Laban his mother's brother, and the sheep of Laban his mother's brother, that Jacob went near, and rolled the stone from the well's mouth, and watered the flock of Laban his mother's brother.

11And Jacob kissed Rachel, and lifted up his voice, and wept.

12And Jacob told Rachel that he was her father's brother, and that he was Rebekah's son: and she ran and told her father.

13And it came to pass, when Laban heard the tidings of Jacob his sister's son, that he ran to meet him, and embraced him, and kissed him, and brought him to his house. And he told Laban all these things.

14And Laban said to him, Surely thou art my bone and my flesh. And he abode with him the space of a month.

15And Laban said unto Jacob, Because thou art my brother, shouldest thou therefore serve me for nought? tell me, what shall thy wages be?

The wages...were Rachel. He was working for Rachel. Jacob OFFERED to work 7 years for Rachel. Rachel was Jacob's cousin...

In the first instance
Rebekah was given away to Isaac, she wanted to go...his servant bought her to his family, she went to Sarah's tent, Isaac was there (he never left home) and became his wife where Isaac was. She was his cousin too.


so...your interpretation of the Bible is....because of your bad experience with your fiance's father?? I was referring to the Genesis passage from the chapter 2... not chapter 24 or chapter 29 ...when Adam took Eve as his wife, and it states that the man must leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife. Clearly this did not happen with Isaac as he never left home, and took Rebakah in his mother Sarah's tent.

So, I think you are referring to a different chapters of Genesis than what I had in mind.

Anyway... sorry that your experience was bad, but it doesn't really have any bearing on he customs in the Bible which was the elder daughter was to be given before the younger daughter. This wasn't actually noted as good or bad, in Gods eyes, it was just the custom. So what actually happened with your fiance? Her father kept her and you married her older sister instead??

Really? I find that hard to believe.

Scripture says man shall leave his mother and father...
My understanding is adult man and woman should be independent, not controlled under parents helicopter. They are free to marry, in God's hand, not in parents hand.

Also it was Leahs lineage that led to Jesus, not Rachels. Leahs son Judah led to Jesus. Judah's tribe portion of the blessing became the land of Judea, and his name is given to what became the Jews.

Rachels son Benjamin grew up without his mother Rachel because she died giving birth to him. His tribe wasn't successful, apparently they all became gay (its what I heard, need to confirm this?) and were not in the line of Jesus.

So, did God approve of Rachel. Not sure, but he didn't discard Leah. So what if Leah was 'ugly' as you put it. That 'ugliness' is in Jesus lineage! Nobody spoke of Jesus being good looking. Even today, Jews are self-concious esp of their noses. They don't conform to Western ideals of beauty.

Churchgoer said:

Scripture says man shall leave his mother and father...
My understanding is adult man and woman should be independent, not controlled under parents helicopter. They are free to marry, in God's hand, not in parents hand.

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This didn't happen under Abraham...he sent his servant to find someone for Isaac and specified it to be not anyone of the Caananites. Rebekah was already family...and Isaac didn't leave home. Then when Isaac and Rebekah had Jacob and Esau, Esau went off to find a Canaanite wife, but Jacob found Rachel (his cousin) and married Leah as well.

Jacob wasn't free because he was working for his uncle, and offered to work for Rachel. Laban offered to pay him wages, but Jacob wanted Rachel instead of wages.

They weren't free to marry anyone it had to be within the family.

So...?
I'm not saying this was or wasn't ideal but this was apparently what God wanted for Abraham's descendants. He specified that he didn't want them marrying any Canaanite women (even though Esau disobeyed)

Anyway your interpretation may vary...I'm just saying there are customs that aren't always observed, and there is scripture that isn't always observed either. Also, back in Genesis, you could marry anyone you pleased or chose...you could have several wives even!

It was only in New Testament that for a pastor or minister in good standing, he was only to be married ONCE and have ONE wife. He already had to have children and was to be an elder..because he was managing his household well AND the church. He had to be sober, and not greedy.

A good husband and father was the ideal candidate to be a minister.

I don't recall any restrictions on age, but certainly Laban thought Rachel was too young to be married right away. I mean how old was she anyway? Just because Jacob fell in love with her, didn't mean she was of age. Also he was WILLING to work 7 years, so she can't have been that old. He didn't demand to marry her right away.
He was still in love with her after 7 years anyway and even far into the marriage, age didn't diminish her looks or his love for her.

Recall Sarah was old when she and Abraham had the miracle baby...and then after Sarah died, Abraham got married again and had even more children with Keturah! So I reckon there was a big age gap with his second marriage.

God did nothing to stop that one, it was Abraham's choice.

Yea I wouldn't go to a church where the pastor was divorced or had affairs with the church secretary...as seems to happen quite often.....

Lanolin said:

Oh ok - thats a weird interpretation again....

Well her married off his eldest and youngest daughter - ie two daughters which didn't bode well for Jacob (now Israel) and God didn't do anything to stop that..so ??

Weren't Jacob and Laban RELATED? Laban was Jacob's Uncle, so Rachel was his cousin? Laban offered Jacob a job, and was going to pay him, but Jacob said he would serve him 7 years (for nothing) if he could have Rachel (instead of wages)

The 'custom' was the eldest to be given away first...not the youngest.

10And it came to pass, when Jacob saw Rachel the daughter of Laban his mother's brother, and the sheep of Laban his mother's brother, that Jacob went near, and rolled the stone from the well's mouth, and watered the flock of Laban his mother's brother.

11And Jacob kissed Rachel, and lifted up his voice, and wept.

12And Jacob told Rachel that he was her father's brother, and that he was Rebekah's son: and she ran and told her father.

13And it came to pass, when Laban heard the tidings of Jacob his sister's son, that he ran to meet him, and embraced him, and kissed him, and brought him to his house. And he told Laban all these things.

14And Laban said to him, Surely thou art my bone and my flesh. And he abode with him the space of a month.

15And Laban said unto Jacob, Because thou art my brother, shouldest thou therefore serve me for nought? tell me, what shall thy wages be?

The wages...were Rachel. He was working for Rachel. Jacob OFFERED to work 7 years for Rachel. Rachel was Jacob's cousin...

In the first instance
Rebekah was given away to Isaac, she wanted to go...his servant bought her to his family, she went to Sarah's tent, Isaac was there (he never left home) and became his wife where Isaac was. She was his cousin too.

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Prohibitions on marriage to close relatives were written later.
Genesis 24:3 Abraham sends his servant to find a suitable wife among his own people. The Canaanites were pagans and would be against God's will.

As to the son remaining in the same land, that was where the Lord sent Abraham to claim that land He promised. His son was out of his father's house when he took Rebecca to be his wife.

Lanolin said:

so...your interpretation of the Bible is....because of your bad experience with your fiance's father??

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Wrong, I added a personal experience to show that this still happens today, NOT to come up with a new doctrine.
I made the doctrinal case clear for anyone to see.

Lanolin said:

I was referring to the Genesis passage from the chapter 2... not chapter 24 or chapter 29 ...when Adam took Eve as his wife, and it states that the man must leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife. Clearly this did not happen with Isaac as he never left home, and took Rebakah in his mother Sarah's tent.

So, I think you are referring to a different chapters of Genesis than what I had in mind.

Anyway... sorry that your experience was bad, but it doesn't really have any bearing on he customs in the Bible which was the elder daughter was to be given before the younger daughter. This wasn't actually noted as good or bad, in Gods eyes, it was just the custom.

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The Bible doctrines always trump any traditions / customs of man.

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Colossians 2:8

Jacob was certainly spoiled/robbed/defrauded by Laban in the worst way.

Lanolin said:

So what actually happened with your fiance? Her father kept her and you married her older sister instead??

Really? I find that hard to believe.

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No, I did not marry her older sister.

HealthAndHappiness said:

Then Laban did a bait and switch with his girls, sneaking his ugly 'tender eyed" one, veiled her to deceive him and said, Nope, too late, you slept with her so you can't give her back.
Besides it's our custom that the older must marry before the younger so you gotta stick around and work for me another 7 years!
What a dirt bag. This was in NO way God's will.

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Genesis 45:4— Joseph said to his brothers, “Come near to me, please.”
They came near. He said, “I am Joseph, your brother, whom you sold into Egypt. 5 Now don’t be grieved, nor angry with yourselves, that you sold me here, for God sent me before you to preserve life. 6 For these two years the famine has been in the land, and there are yet five years, in which there will be no plowing and no harvest. 7 God sent me before you to preserve for you a remnant on the earth, and to save you alive by a great deliverance. 8 So now it wasn’t you who sent me here, but God, and he has made me a father to Pharaoh, lord of all his house, and ruler over all the land of Egypt.

50:15— When Joseph’s brothers saw that their father was dead, they said, “It may be that Joseph will hate us, and will fully pay us back for all the evil which we did to him.” 16 They sent a message to Joseph, saying, “Your father commanded before he died, saying, 17 ‘You shall tell Joseph, “Now please forgive the disobedience of your brothers, and their sin, because they did evil to you.” ’ Now, please forgive the disobedience of the servants of the God of your father.” Joseph wept when they spoke to him. 18 His brothers also went and fell down before his face; and they said, “Behold, we are your servants.” 19 Joseph said to them, “Don’t be afraid, for am I in the place of God? 20 As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to save many people alive, as is happening today. 21 Now therefore don’t be afraid. I will provide for you and your little ones.” He comforted them, and spoke kindly to them.


Jacob marrying Leah was deninitely part of the plan, as from them came half of all the tribes of Israel; and Labans opression, so that his wickedness might be written down as a testimony to all generations. God knows how to change the actions of wickedness and turn them into seeds for good, just like how all the pain you've experienced from the actions of your Fiancee have been part of what's driven you to do the good you've done to date.

If there's anyone who thinks they know the pain of getting cut off from a potential lifelong mate, it's me. To this day, I find myself caught up in an 'episode' over the thought of her at some point almost every day. I provoke myself to anger, get into imaginary arguments, and wish all kinds of things good and bad.
At the end of the day, I remember it's a waste to get caught up over what happens here, because it will ultimately all be forgotten anyway. And I hope she manages to find salvation in the Lord and have Gods peace, even if I'll never remember who she was after this life.

? Jacob did get to marry his love Rachel. He just had to work a lot longer for her. And he did so.

So...what has this got to do with anything? @HealthAndHappiness what, exactly is your beef? Did you marry an older sister instead of a younger one? No?

Then WHAT HAPPENED?

Labans trickery was so that he could have 14 years free labour from Jacob. Note that, he wasn't going to give Jacob Rachel at the same time as Leah. He had to work another 7 years for her.

Jacob didn't have any money, like Isaac promised Rebekah, by giving her jewellery first etc so she was convinced when she went away from her family that he was wealthy and could look after her.

You all seem to have forgotten that in those days brides have a price. Why would Laban have given Rachel away immediately? Or even Leah for that matter. He didn't. Jacob didn't have any jewellery or fine clothes to give her. He only had his labour.

Isaac wasn't away from father Abraham's house when he got married to Rebekah. Abraham sent his SERVANT to go fetch Rebekah.
Isaac stayed at home with his father and mother Sarah.
Sarah later died of course, as she was elderly by that point, but he didn't go too far away from her.

So..yea don't know what bible you reading, but you are assuming much....and there is no doctrine on marriage except a statement in Genesis 2. There are marriage customs, but not doctrine. Also Leviticus marriage laws came later..and that still doesn't say the the groom had to have his bride immediately.

And this axiom also holds true -- marry in haste...repent at leisure.

tourist said:

My age standard is 5 years either way. My wife is 17 days older than me.

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You guys are young. And do not yet understand love. Or even what a marriage can be and is.

tourist said:

My age standard is 5 years either way. My wife is 17 days older than me.

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MessengerT said:

You guys are young. And do not yet understand love. Or even what a marriage can be and is.

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I understand that life experience has a lot to do with a person's outlook, but maybe you don't realize that @tourist is at least in his 60's, and maybe 70's (@tourist, feel free to correct me here.)

Most of the regular singles who hang out here (have been here 10+ years and more) are in their 40's, 50's, 60's, and 70's -- so I'm not sure what you consider young. I understand that many come into Singles and don't realize a good many in the crowd are older. I'm in my 50's, but most people see my picture (which was taken in December 2025,) and automatically dismiss me as well.

Sure, there are a few here, especially new members, who are younger, but Tourist is no rookie.

He has been here with us many years and has graciously shared his life experiences with us. Some of his descriptions of caretaking for his beloved wife up until her death have moved me to tears.

He is one of the most respected members here in the Singles Forum community.

Just curious, @MessengerT, have you cared for a spouse unto death as Tourist has?

I'm genuinely curious. I am a around a lot of older people (70's, 80's, 90's and above) and am very interested of people's stories about how God got them through the "'Til Death Do Us Part" of marriage.

This is just me, but I don't think it gets talked about enough -- as in, living through the death of one's spouse, and how to carry on afterwards.