"Sinning Religion".
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This "Licentious" gospel (as I call it) Is nothign new. James faught it in his epistle. The Book of Jude is fighting it in his.
Licentiousness (or easy cheap grace) is just as bad as legalism, Both stem from Pride.
One says I must help God to save myself. the other says I am not really all that Bad. so God will save me anyway.
Narrow is the gate that leads to life. and so very few who enter that way.
We have been saved by grace.. period.
Not of works. lest anyone should boast (be puffed up in pride that they save themselves)
lets be the tax collector. not the Pharisee
If we think we are sinless. we will never grow. And God can not teach us.
if we are saved at all.. we will come across as boatful, and not even be able to be used by God.
"Awake to righteousness, and do not sin." 1Cor15:34.
1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Notice. John included himself. I guess you are more righteous than the apostle John?
Luke 18:
9 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’
13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
Again, Be the tax collector. not the pharisee
I cope with this by believeing that everything is as it's meant to be for good, even my own sufferings.
1 John 1:8 clearly states that claiming to be without sin is self-deception. From this view, 1 Corinthians 15:34 is seen as a strong, stern rebuke to actively turn away from sinful lifestyles rather than a promise of absolute, flawless, sinless perfection.
I've heard certain folks abuse and misuse the words of Jesus "go and sin no more" in John 8:11 to teach "sinless perfection" yet Jesus was telling the woman to go and leave her life of sin, namely, she had been practicing adultery. Also, Jesus cannot compromise his perfect holy standard, so of course He is not going to say, "go and just sin a little bit."
Every so often we get the pleasure of dealing with the “sinless perfectionist”.
Talk to them long enough and you’ll always find that they redefine sin, and classify sin as “mistakes”. Lowering God’s perfect standard.
They can’t admit that they do sin, or their whole argument falls apart.
So going 5 miles over the speed limit, that momentary glance of desire at a woman, not selling everything they have and helping the homeless, etc…. all are just mistakes, not sins.
They are just as bad as those that say we are free to sin so go ahead and indulge in every desire of the flesh.
All of society seems to have branded every wrong act, intentional or not, as a mistake.
It doesn't matter how seemingly insignificant or incredibly significant the action is -- no, no, they say, I just made a mistake.
I have often wondered if this is the biggest modern challenge spreading the Gospel.
The first thing we have to do is go against the cultural norm -- and actually convince people that they are sinning -- and not merely making "mistakes."
Are you doing this?
Is it safe and reasonable?
There are rescue missions and homeless shelters to direct them to.
You and others have denigrated me and my belief in heart holiness BUT no one has commented or answered my post #49 about Romans chapter six and what Paul wrote! Rather telling I think. Is it because you have no answer?
NO ONE has commented on Romans 6?
Well... I have been told I'm a nobody before. I guess this is another data point on the graph.
Jesus is righteous, and He is righteous for condemn us to death, condemning sin in the flesh, and He is merciful for condemning sin in the flesh by offering His body and His blood. So that, if you have life, it isn't from having not sinned, but you live because of His mercy that satisfies the law of sin and death that takes the life due for sin in the and at the same time giving over that life due to righteousness lived out in the flesh. His gift far exceeded the requirement of the law.
It is as if you, a sinner, had approached God and asked that no destroy you and better yet that He deem you righteous so that you could live and His answer is, "Go, find a righteous man to die for you, and then I will deem you to be righteous and give you your life."
But wait, nobody had to ask this, because God thought of the answer for your hopeless dilemma even before the foundation of the world!
It is as if you, a sinner, had approached God and asked that no destroy you and better yet that He deem you righteous so that you could live and His answer is, "Go, find a righteous man to die for you, and then I will deem you to be righteous and give you your life."
But wait, nobody had to ask this, because God thought of the answer for your hopeless dilemma even before the foundation of the world!
So, now, we only need that we should find Jesus. And He has even made that, having come into plain sight, such that He could be found!
Any other way is unacceptable. You cannot find Joe Righteous and sacrifice him for your if Joe isn't willing, because then that would be murder, besides that point that there is no Joe Righteous in existence. And if there were, would you be able to convince Him to 'give' His life for you? There lies the dilemma, as there are those that lay down their lives for others but the lives they offer are not sinless...
I have in the past taken two homeless people in on separate occasions , both of whom I barely knew . The first time was fine , a middle aged woman . The second time was......interesting . A homeless young male drug addict . That was very hard work but , it was a good learning experience that turned out ok , eventually . I wouldn't recommend it but , if God brings these people to u....what can u do ? U have to bite the bullet and do what u know is right in His sight . I made many mistakes with the young man but , I learned lots of things so , I don't regret it .
Yes this is true about the gnostic infiltration and generally speaking people do not take into account the reason for John's letter to that church.
It plays a large part in how he frames his letter.
And some of those believers were being persuaded by Gnostic teachings, yup it happens.
I was heavily involved in the Salvation Army for years, and they are also part of the Holiness movement, I just think people do not really understand this teaching, it really isn't about being sinless, it is about living out what a believer truly is.