Christianity rit large seems at odds with either answer. How do you see it?
Is Salvation an event or a process?
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Not at all. Salvation is both an event and a process. The problem is that the meaning of the word has been changed. It's become Christian code for going to heaven when you die. If you think of it as deliverance, it helps to make sense of it.
So, the initial experience of salvation is to have sins forgiven. We are delivered from the penalty of sin. The next aspect is to be born again. This means to receive new life in Christ that can set us free from the old life we inherited from Adam.
The ongoing experience of "salvation" is the salvation of the soul. Substitute "deliverance" and it becomes clearer. The part of man that is born again is the spirit. The spirit is like a newborn baby. While entirely innocent, the new spirit must receive instruction.
The soul includes the mind, emotion and will. The short version is this: the mind must be renewed. The mind often argues against the truth of God's word. We have all kinds of preconceived notions prior to being saved. The mind should serve us, not rule us.
It is unfortunately normal for people to be ruled by emotion. Emotion is good but again, we should not be ruled by it. The truth is the truth whether we feel good or not.
Everyone has inner desires. We are used to being independent. Most times we imagine that our own will is good. That is not the issue. What we need is to be in harmony with God, so that His will becomes our will.
In summary, we need to be delivered from the unrenewed mind, being controlled by emotion and ruled by self will. This is the process known as the salvation (deliverance) of the soul.
Some call this "progressive sanctification". You will not find that expression in the Bible. You will find "salvation of your soul" (1 Peter 1:9 and James 1:21) Again, put "deliverance" in place of "salvation" and it will help with understanding.
This explains why "salvation" is the goal of our faith. We were told that we were saved when we received Christ. Yet we also see that it is our goal. Hopefully, now you see what it means.
It is a process (God's drawing), that when all things go well, leads to the event of regeneration.
Salvation consists of many events using multiple processes, each with its own individual steps.
God doesn't just wave a magic wand and 'presto', the Redeemed are instantly in Glorified Bodies.
I have spent many years studying how the process works. As an Engineer, I am fascinated by it.
God doesn't just wave a magic wand and 'presto', the Redeemed are instantly in Glorified Bodies.
I have spent many years studying how the process works. As an Engineer, I am fascinated by it.
If you want to word it that way?
The drawing of God consists of various events in drawing a parson.
Which is the actual process of bringing a soul to the point of salvation, if it is to happen.
Here is an example of an event in the process of drawing a soul...
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness
of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God
is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world
God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being
understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
Romans 1:18-21
How does that which is invisible, manifest that which is visible?
How does something non-physical create something that is physical?
How does a wave function become a particle?
Has God made it plain to you?
The KJV is a much better translation in my opinion:
That is an extremely important word that few understand. It is part of the process.
That is an extremely important word that few understand. It is part of the process.
It is both. We have been saved from the penalty of our sin (Ephesians 2:8), we are being saved from continuing to live in sin (Philippians 2:12), and we will be saved from God's wrath on the day of the Lord (Romans 5:9-10). We are saved from the penalty of our sin the moment that we repent and believe, but out salvation from sin would be incomplete if we were only saved from the penalty of our sin while we continued to be doers of sin, so there is an aspect of our gift of salvation that we are experiencing in the present by repenting and becoming a doer of the Law of God. In Titus 2:11-13, the content of our gift of salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so that is the aspect of our gift of salvation that we are experiencing in the present. Moreover, in Titus 2;14, Jesus did not just give himself to pay the penalty for our sin, but also to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so those as past and present aspects of our gift of salvation. In other words, our salvation is not just about being restored to how we were before we had sinned but is also about being made to be like Christ.
We are saved by faith, and not by works when we first confess Christ for that is all we can do.
An event.
But after we are saved having the proper perspective of repentance we have to allow the Spirit to lead us to be Christlike.
Which a Spirit led person will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
Which everyone that names the name of Christ has to depart from iniquity.
And those who do not continue in the goodness of God shall be cut off.
The reason for this is that God gave us the power to overcome sin so there is no excuse.
So a process.
Which some people deny the power thereof because they will not give up the flesh, and love sin more than God, and do not come to the truth.
Which they never adhered to the proper understanding of repentance and their sins were not washed away.
An event.
But after we are saved having the proper perspective of repentance we have to allow the Spirit to lead us to be Christlike.
Which a Spirit led person will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
Which everyone that names the name of Christ has to depart from iniquity.
And those who do not continue in the goodness of God shall be cut off.
The reason for this is that God gave us the power to overcome sin so there is no excuse.
So a process.
Which some people deny the power thereof because they will not give up the flesh, and love sin more than God, and do not come to the truth.
Which they never adhered to the proper understanding of repentance and their sins were not washed away.
Think of a person's name being written in the Book of Life, long before they are even conceived. Is it an event or is it a process? It's both.
What about the moment that person is conceived? Is it an event or is it a process? Again, it's both.
The road to Salvation involves many events and processes. Scripture gives us detailed highlights of how it all works.
Salvation for those of Israel before Christ was a process that required enduring to the end and was realized at their resurrection.
Eze 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
For those of Israel when their Messiah came, they could be saved by faith but still had to endure to the end.
Joh_8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Mat_24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Today both Jew and gentile can be saved upon faith in the gospel of grace that was given to Paul;
1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
The Christian has the advantage of obtaining salvation the moment he is placed into the body of Christ;
1Co_12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
That this is already done can be seen in the use of the past tense.
Col_1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Eze 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
For those of Israel when their Messiah came, they could be saved by faith but still had to endure to the end.
Joh_8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Mat_24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Today both Jew and gentile can be saved upon faith in the gospel of grace that was given to Paul;
1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
The Christian has the advantage of obtaining salvation the moment he is placed into the body of Christ;
1Co_12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
That this is already done can be seen in the use of the past tense.
Col_1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Christianity is a religion that can be generalized as people who embrace the Christian tradition, culture, and doctrine, in particular embracing the historic creeds. However, true Spiritual Christianity is determined by the event of personal acceptance of Rebirth, which is nothing short of embracing Christ as our sole source of spiritual living. That means we take him as our sole Savior, or Salvation by Faith in Christ Alone.
The result of this Choice should be recognized by the receipt of God's Spirit as a continuing presence in our lives, leading us to prefer Christ's righteousness over our own independence from God. This is the essence of the New Birth--the introduction of Christian traits in our life, including God's love, peace, joy, kindneses, patience, and the like.
Beyond becoming a true Spiritual Christian there is the added issue of maintaining holiness, or qualification to represent Christ in our lifestyle. This can be a process, along with Spiritual Maturation. Spirituality, in other words, entails growth in our temporal existence. It is indeed a process.
In this post I'm going to present all the biblical happenings that must happen, and happen in the right order in the salvation process or journey.
This will make better sense to you if you first read the rediscovering pisteuo thread, and the A,B,Cs, of faith and faithing thread first.
This thread is focused on the correct response to the call of the Father, "a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender." Not the believe and receive understanding.
Disclaimer: I will use the word gate, simply to highlght that part of the journey. I'm not suggesting there are actual gates.
The salvation process.
1) The world or the field.
A) Christ bought the entire field to get the treasure out of it. Jn. 3:16
B) Drawing by the Father starts here. Jn 6:44.
C) Were called out to be sainted here. Rom. 1:7.
D) people are called out from this field, and people are not called out from from this field. (A deep dive into the Greek is needed to show this.)
E) The beginning of the perfecting process starts here.
F) not sealed with the Spirit of Christ yet. Rom.8:9, not His yet.
G) no prayer or worship is acceptable here yet.
H) Repentance happens here. Turning from our way to the direction of the caller.
I) At this beginning stage, His Spirit, His word, and His promises are not ours yet.
2) Gate 1 or the altar.
A) first act of faithing, pisteuo, the surrendered life happens here.
B) A decision is made here, to make a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. Genuine, not a perfect one.
C) Here, the act of pisteuo or faithing is tested and deemed Genuine by God.
D) No "saving faith " yet at the point.
E) prayer and worship not acceptable here yet. Rom. 8:9. Not His yet.
F) Alternative paths are formed here to go over or around the altar. (Believe and receive doctrine. ) to no avail.
3) Parable of the sower.
Mt. 13: 1-23. My. 4:1-20, Lk. 8:4-15.
A) here, Christ Himself is the seed.
B) the called out ones whos act of faithing has been accepted as Genuine are the soils.
C) this stage is a testing or proving ground.
D) the surrendered life is being tested here.
E) Decisions are made here that support the fact we really have turned our life and will over to God.
F) 3 of the 4 soils will fail here.
G) for 1 soil, this is the start of Christ being formed in their hearts by Faith. (pistis)
H) a grafting process begins here for that 1 soil.
I) no prayer and worship acceptable here yet.
J) God's paradoxical truths start to form here.
K) Faith begins to come by a hearing, a hearing by the word of God. Rom. 10:17.
4) Gate 2 or the accepted surrendered life.
A) Here, our surrendered life has been accepted.
B) the Spirit of Christ or the Grace deposit has been sealed into the faither, making them a temple of the Holy Spirit.
C) for the first time, He is in us and we are in Him.
D) a spiritual awakening happens here.
E) Dynamite power goes off here.
F) God's nature begins to flow.
G) the kind of giving that can't be imitated begins.
H) saving faith, a continually surrendered life has begun.
I) prayer and worship are acceptable now.
J) the mind of Christ and His presence start to take hold.
K) because of the mind of Christ, praying without ceasing starts here.
L) a called out one can only go through this gate one time.
5) The product.
A) here, God is producing "faithers" that are responding with saving faith.
B) here, a precondition has been met.
C) here a continual state of faithing will consume us.
D) here, we are either being saved or perishing. Choosing to faithe towards Him or away from Him.
E) this is not a destination.
F) we are continuously being perfected here, our faith, our surrendered life.
G) we should expect God's nature and His word to continually flow through us.
H) here, we are His and He is ours. We are in a state where it's harder to get out of His will, than it is to stay in it.
I)here, Rom. 7: 14-21 is in effect. We have been separated from our sinful nature's, by Grace through Faith.
This has been a testimony of sorts to the experience i had and have been having.
Well, I choose to see it as a process, although scripture is vague. Paul tells us that we are saved, that we are being saved and that we will be saved, and I would note that the term salvation is related to salve and thus includes a sense of healing. My opinion is that once we commit to repentance, we are on the road to salvation, and our destination is set, so we are saved, but we are traveling the path to full repentance. so, we are being saved, when we fully repent, we will be saved. But that final step of full repentance is at some indefinite time in the future.
To the title question...
Yes.
Translation from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of light is instantaneous. Adoption is instantaneous.
Transformation of our minds is a process. Conformation of our whole being to Christlikeness is a process.
Yes.
Translation from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of light is instantaneous. Adoption is instantaneous.
Transformation of our minds is a process. Conformation of our whole being to Christlikeness is a process.
Gideon300:
What if the goal of our faith was conversion from the old to the new? "We were told......" A significant and honest statement about where our perceptions of Christian reality come from...someone else's theology.
Watchman22. You have presented a structured outline of processes known and unknown that you believe are in play. I want to call your attention to Gate 2 : The Acceptance of the surrendered life.
their manifestations of our Pistos? How do you you suggest we juxtapose Faith and Pistis (greater faith)? How does one evaluate the quality (validity) of our faith? How do we determine if out faith is "sufficient" to be saving faith? How do we know for sure that we have been "sealed?"Is there a sign? What are the signs of the "Spiritual awakening" of which you speak? What are the signs that "dynomite power" arrives? (G) Who is giving what to whom? Exactly when do our prayers to God become acceptable? What are the signs of a person whom the mind of Christ and His presence "take hold"? Why does the "mind of Christ start praying without ceasing" only after the above events take place? Who is Jesus praying to?