The book of Job

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not according to you.

Your reply is not an answer. The question was a simple yes or no. You say you have answered my questions, but this is an example of how you don't answer them.


Rather than believe the very Word of God concerning Job, as well as believing what other believers have told you, you still do not believe Job was a believer. What's up with that?

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I do not know any saved person who would say they don't know how to be just with God.
I do not know any saved person who would say that God would laugh at the trial of the innocent.
I do not know any saved person who would say that God covers the faces of the judges.
I do not know any saved person who would say who, and where is God?
I do not know any saved person who would say they were without hope.
I do not know any saved person who would say their righteousness was greater than God's.
I do not know any saved person who would say they want to be free from their master.
I do not know any saved person who would curse the day they were born.
I do not know any saved person who would tell God to go away.

Anyone of these statements would bring a persons salvation into question, but all of these together should leave no doubt.
 
Your reply is not an answer. The question was a simple yes or no. You say you have answered my questions, but this is an example of how you don't answer them.
now you know how everyone in this thread is treated by you ... this is an example of how you treat others ... are you beginning to understand how frustrating it is for those of us who have been dealing with you?




I do not know any saved person who would say they don't know how to be just with God.
I do not know any saved person who would say that God would laugh at the trial of the innocent.
I do not know any saved person who would say that God covers the faces of the judges.
I do not know any saved person who would say who, and where is God?
I do not know any saved person who would say they were without hope.
I do not know any saved person who would say their righteousness was greater than God's.
I do not know any saved person who would say they want to be free from their master.
I do not know any saved person who would curse the day they were born.
I do not know any saved person who would tell God to go away.
please provide Scripture reference (chapter/verse) for the above statements.




Anyone of these statements would bring a persons salvation into question, but all of these together should leave no doubt.
well, I believe what God says about Job over Job's statements about himself (which should be considered in the context within which the statement was made) ... as well as your uncertainty concerning Job's salvation. You have made it abundantly clear in the pages of this thread that you do not believe Job was a believer ... you have concluded that Job was an abysmal unbeliever who was full of pride and sin ... even though God tells you from the beginning of the book that Job was not as you portray him.

Job was not aware of what God said about him in Job 1:1, Job 1:8, Job 2:3 ... that he was an upright man who reverenced God and eschewed evil. Those are God's Words concerning Job and those Words are the standard ... what Job says about himself or what others say about Job fails unless and until there is agreement with what God says about Job.

And when you finally grasp the fact that Job (and his friends) thought God was bringing on all the suffering he was going through even though Job did not believe he had sinned ... and Job asked God to show him if he had sinned so fellowship could be restored ... you just might be able to start understanding the book as a whole rather than the disjointed distorted allegations of Job's friends which are fully entrenched in your mind.


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please provide Scripture reference (chapter/verse) for the above statements.

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I do not know any saved person who would say they don't know how to be just with God. Job 9:2
I do not know any saved person who would say that God covers the faces of the judges. Job 9:24
I do not know any saved person who would say who, and where is God? Job 9:24
I do not know any saved person who would say they were without hope. Job 19:10
I do not know any saved person who would say their righteousness was greater than God's. Job 40:8
I do not know any saved person who would say they want to be free from their master. Job 3:19
I do not know any saved person who would curse the day they were born. Job 3:3
I do not know any saved person who would tell God to go away. Job 7:19
I do not know any saved person whom God would accuse of making a covenant with Satan. Job 41:4
I do not know any saved person who would say that God would laugh at the trial of the innocent.
Job 9:23
 
The first thing you need to understand is that there was no sin on Job's part for which he was being chastened by God.

Secondly, all of the turmoil Job was going through was due to satan having smote Job with sore boils over his whole body. Job was in excruciating pain, he was feverish, he couldn't eat, he couldn't sleep. He was very, very sick.

Thirdly, Job's friends all believed Job was being chastened by God for some sort of sin on Job's part and if Job would repent, God would forgive him. Job's denial of sin is absolutely true ... Job knew he had not sinned ... you know it and I know it as well. What we know that neither Job nor his friends knew was that satan was the one who attacked Job and that God restrained satan from outright killing Job.

Fourthly, while Job believed he had not sinned, he asked God to show him if he had unwittingly sinned and if God would show him, he would repent so his fellowship with God could be restored.

Please keep these things in mind as you read through the Book of Job.



I do not know any saved person who would say they don't know how to be just with God. Job 9:2
Job had just heard from Bildad ... that Job (and his now dead children) must have sinned against God because his suffering and their death was a result of wickedness on his or their part ... as opposed to satan having attacked Job's livestock, servants, children or satan having smote Job with sore boils.

Job's response was to claim that what Bildad stated was true concerning ...

Job 8:13the hypocrite's hope shall perish
Job 8:15 – the house of the wicked shall not stand
Job 8:20 – that "God will not cast away a perfect man, neither will he help the evil doers"
Job 8:22 – that "the dwelling place of the wicked shall come to nought"

However, Job did not agree with Bildad concerning any sin on his part. Job knew he had not sinned, and since Job knew that was the case, then how could he be just with God (Job 9:2). That is the meaning of the verse.





I do not know any saved person who would say that God covers the faces of the judges. Job 9:24
I do not know any saved person who would say who, and where is God? Job 9:24
I went through this verse with you a couple of weeks ago. You never replied to what I posted then, but I ask you to consider what you were told:

Are you aware that satan is the god of this world?​
As to who gives the earth "into the hand of the wicked" ? ... Job and his friends were completely ignorant of the workings of satan.​
We know from God's Word that satan is the prince of the power of the air (Ephesians 2:2) ... when Adam sinned dominion was delivered to satan (Luke 4:6) and satan puts his minions in positions of power in this world. That God allows this is God's prerogative. We know satan's authority will end at some point so we endure and look to the eternal blessings God promises in His Word.​

We know that satan is the god of this world. Job and his friends did not know satan was behind all the suffering inflicted upon Job. They believed everything that happened was the working of God. So when an unjust judge sits in the seat of authority, is that judge acting in accordance with what God tells us is truth? ... or does the unjust judge act in accordance with the influence from the god of this world? ... and at the time they were living, would Job or his friends know that satan was the god of this world?

Are you going to continue to ignore what has been presented to you? Your response should be a concise rebuttal to the information submitted. Your response should not be to ignore ... only to bring up the same issue over and over and over.





I do not know any saved person who would say they were without hope. Job 19:10
Rather than pluck vs 10 from its context, try reading from vs 7 to 22. Job was considering his current circumstance (which was temporal) rather than looking at the eternal.

Because Job was was unaware that it was satan who smote him with sore boils, he thought God had done so and he did not understand why or what he had done to cause God to inflict such pain upon him.

That was why Job was without hope ... not because he did not believe in God, but because he did believe in God. Job could not understand the "why" concerning his circumstance.

And I do not believe Job is the only believer who has ever "lost hope". My grandmother was a wonderful believer and I remember she told me that when her son (toddler) succumbed to leukemia, she was mad at God and turned away for a period of time (don't know how long). But she turned back to God and was a firm believer the rest of her life. She said she could not go on without God. She also said she would see her beloved Tommy in heaven.





I do not know any saved person who would say their righteousness was greater than God's. Job 40:8
first of all, Job never claimed his righteousness was greater than God's. In Job 35:2, Elihu claimed Job said what Job never said.

Secondly, I have provided (multiple times) my understanding of the context in which Job 40:8 is set ... you can read my most recent response here.

Consider what is written in God's Word, think about the information I have provided more than several times, and provide a cohesive response instead of avoiding the issue.


continued ...


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... continued ...


I do not know any saved person who would say they want to be free from their master. Job 3:19
Job did not say he wanted to be free from his master in Job 3:19.

Job was speaking of death. In death ...

Job 3:13 – he would have lain still and been quiet, I should have slept: then had I been at rest

Job 3:17the wicked cease from troubling; and there the weary be at rest.

Job 3:18the prisoners rest together; they hear not the voiceof the oppressor.

Job 3:19small and great are there; and the servant is free from his master.

Job was not speaking of being free from God ... he was speaking of earthly servants and masters. Once a servant dies, he no longer serves his earthly master.





I do not know any saved person who would curse the day they were born. Job 3:3
was Jeremiah saved?




I do not know any saved person who would tell God to go away. Job 7:19
Is it conceivable to you that Job would have told satan to depart, if he had known satan was his tormentor?

You and I are privy to information Job and his friends had no knowledge of ... which is why Job asked God to reveal to him any sin on his part so he could repent (even though he had not sinned and his friends all thought God was punishing Job for sin).





I do not know any saved person whom God would accuse of making a covenant with Satan. Job 41:4
been through this verse more than a few times as well. Try responding with meaningful rebuttal so we can discuss in detail.

Post 106
Post 235
Post 383
Post 585
Post 912

You don't have to respond to all ... even your clear rebuttal to any one of the posts is preferable to you continuing to ignore information (avoid the issue) that has been provided to you (numerous times).




I do not know any saved person who would say that God would laugh at the trial of the innocent. Job 9:23
Here is the discussion we had concerning this verse back in February:

Isn't telling God that he would laugh at the trial of the innocence the same as declaring God unrighteous?​

I do not believe so. The scourge that falls on the land affects all who live in the land and the scourge does not consider whether one is deserving of whatever injury the scrouge brings.​
If and when calamity strikes ... a natural phenomenon (tornado, hurricane, tsunami, eartquake, etc., etc.) ... believers and nonbelievers alike are "destroyed" ... some lose their lives, some lose their homes and/or businesses, some lose their possessions. Job pointed out that God does not always intervene. God does not come to the rescue of either the innocent or the wicked. That is God's prerogative and some may conclude that God laughs in those circumstances. I do not believe God laughs in those times. I believe God helps those who trust in Him and while we may suffer for a season, when the affliction is removed, hopefully the believer has grown stronger in faith during that trying time.​
The reason Job was discussing this line of reasoning was because Elphaz claimed in Job 4 and Bildad claimed in Job 8 that God would not bring calamity to the innocent. Therefore, according to both of them, Job had sinned and was reaping the consequence. But that is not what occurred ... satan afflicted Job in his foolish attempt to prove God wrong in His claim that Job was a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil.​

If God would laugh at the trial of the innocent then God is not just. There is no man innocent save Christ. Besides, Job failed the second test.​
I do not believe we fully understand exactly what Job was getting at here. We know that Job was in despair and Job spoke rashly during his discussions with his friends. Perhaps Job felt as if he was being laughed at. Job begged God for an answer and God remained distant from Job until chapter 38, at which point Job told God he (Job) was vile and questioned what answer could he give God and Job told God he would speak no further.​

there was no further reply.

It is wholly apparent you and I are not in agreement concerning Job 9:23 ... so be it ...


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The Question not heard too often....

Why, in the first place, would Satan want Job to suffer?
What was it to prove?

Was it simply to show that Job only loved God for the benefits?

Or, was something deeper going on between the Lord and Satan?

grace and peace....
 
The Question not heard too often....

Why, in the first place, would Satan want Job to suffer?
What was it to prove?

You have to go back to the Garden of Eden for that answer. The answer would be the same as why did Satan want Adam and Eve to fail. Jealousy perhaps. Just plain evil. I don't know.


Was it simply to show that Job only loved God for the benefits?

You have two motives for what took place. The first was God's motive. I believe Job was a good moral person, for God said so. Having said that, being a good moral person does not get you into heaven. You need to put on God's righteousness, who we now know to be Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ, had not yet been manifested in the flesh when Job lived, but he did exist in the Godhead. Gabriel told Mary that the Holy Ghost and the power of the highest would over shadow her. Jesus, or Joshua, or God our Saviour was with the Father from the beginning. In order for Job to have a relationship with God he needed to put on that righteousness, the same as we need to do.

Job was very upright, he was very proud of himself. Job had heard of God through his forefathers, and he had set himself to keep all that he had heard from them. He was so diligent in keeping the commandments that the elders had taught him, he felt confident that he was God's number one man. So much so that his pride was corrupting him.

Since Job was confident in his own righteousness he never felt a need for God's righteousness. God, desiring that all be saved, had sent dreams and visions to Job to get his attention on the matter. Job didn't get it, so God went father by presenting Job to Satan. God new what the end result would be.

Satan had a motive as well, and like I said before, I don't have an answer for that, other than plain evil.
 
There were many theories on why Job suffered the things he suffered. God rebuked several of the people with the opinions.

However, in this thread I would like to look at what the rest of the Bible says to figure out what God's role was and why this happened.

1. God is omniscient. The book of Job makes it clear that He knew what Satan was planning to do.

2. God is omnipotent. The book of Job makes it clear that God allowed it to happen.

If you deny that God is omniscient then that is considered Blasphemy. If you deny that God is omnipotent that also is blasphemy.

3. God said this about Job: "8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"

So that has to be part of your explanation, it can't contradict what God says here because God cannot lie.

Now we have promises from God in Psalm 91 and Deuteronomy 28 to protect us from evil. That is a covenant that we have with God.

How can you reconcile the covenant and promises we have with God with what happened? By all means use your own personal experiences if that helps explain this.
You’re right about the first three points. God knows everything. He knew exactly what Satan was planning. He’s all-powerful, so nothing happened to Job without His permission. And God Himself said Job was “a perfect and upright man, one that fears God and turns away from evil.” We can’t just ignore that or try to explain it away.


But here’s the thing the book never actually does: it never gives us a clear, complete reason why God allowed it. We see the scene in heaven. We know God gave Satan permission with limits. We hear God later get angry at Job’s friends. And when God finally speaks to Job out of the storm, He doesn’t sit him down and explain the whole plan. He just shows Job how little he understands about the universe.


That’s what makes your post ironic. Job’s friends spent chapter after chapter trying to figure out the “why.” They were sure it had to be some hidden sin in Job’s life. And God was mad at them for it (Job 42:7). He said they hadn’t spoken rightly about Him.


So when we start inventing our own reasons today (secret sin), specific lesson Job needed to learn, whatever we’re basically doing the same thing the friends did. We’re acting like we’ve got the full explanation when the book itself refuses to give one.


As for the promises in Deuteronomy 28 and Psalm 91… those are real. God does protect His people. But the same Bible also shows that God sometimes allows the righteous to go through severe testing for reasons we don’t get to see in this life. Job is the clearest example of that.


The honest takeaway from the book is that we don’t fully know why Job suffered. And trying to come up with a neat human reason, especially one that blames the person who’s suffering, puts us in the same spot as the friends God rebuked.
 
You’re right about the first three points. God knows everything. He knew exactly what Satan was planning. He’s all-powerful, so nothing happened to Job without His permission. And God Himself said Job was “a perfect and upright man, one that fears God and turns away from evil.” We can’t just ignore that or try to explain it away.


But here’s the thing the book never actually does: it never gives us a clear, complete reason why God allowed it. We see the scene in heaven. We know God gave Satan permission with limits. We hear God later get angry at Job’s friends. And when God finally speaks to Job out of the storm, He doesn’t sit him down and explain the whole plan. He just shows Job how little he understands about the universe.


That’s what makes your post ironic. Job’s friends spent chapter after chapter trying to figure out the “why.” They were sure it had to be some hidden sin in Job’s life. And God was mad at them for it (Job 42:7). He said they hadn’t spoken rightly about Him.


So when we start inventing our own reasons today (secret sin), specific lesson Job needed to learn, whatever we’re basically doing the same thing the friends did. We’re acting like we’ve got the full explanation when the book itself refuses to give one.


As for the promises in Deuteronomy 28 and Psalm 91… those are real. God does protect His people. But the same Bible also shows that God sometimes allows the righteous to go through severe testing for reasons we don’t get to see in this life. Job is the clearest example of that.


The honest takeaway from the book is that we don’t fully know why Job suffered. And trying to come up with a neat human reason, especially one that blames the person who’s suffering, puts us in the same spot as the friends God rebuked.
Here is the thing, the book does give us a clear, complete reason why God allowed it and all of these people pretending to read this book skip right over the first chapter which could not be any clearer. The honest answer from anyone who has truly studied this book is that we do know fully why Job suffered.

Job 1:5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.

This verse precedes God talking to Satan. It is one of the two most crucial verses of the entire book. Job was not praying for his sins to be forgiven, he was interceding on behalf of his children and paying the price for their sins. That is what Jesus did on the cross. That is what the priesthood of Melchizedek is all about, interceding for others to pay the price for them. Jesus is a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek. The book of Job shows Job paying the price for others and it concludes with

Job 42:8 Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.

This is how it concludes, Job interceding for his three friends. There is a price that must be paid to intercede for others. The book of Job is for those who are not interested in simply being "blessed" by God, but they want to have a ministry that can help rescue others. This is the conclusion of the book of James and the conclusion of Paul's ministry (book of Philemon) and the point of the book of Hebrews.

James 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
 
Or, was something deeper going on between the Lord and Satan?
bingo ... the battle is spiritual ... something which Job and his friends were completely ignorant ... and something we do not fully comprehend ... even though we have Scripture pointing us to the underlying spiritual conflict we are completely unaware of as our focus is distracted by the physical realm.

thinking about ... 2 Kings 6 ... Daniel 10 ... 2 Corinthians 10 ... Ephesians 6 ... 1 Peter 5 ... to name a few sections which briefly mention the spiritual warfare going on around us (of which mankind for the most part is unaware).

satan cannot touch God. satan knows he cannot harm God. satan goes after God's people ... and if there were no people of God for satan to torment, he would go after those who were not God's people. satan absolutely hates mankind because mankind was made in the image of God.


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This is how it concludes, Job interceding for his three friends. There is a price that must be paid to intercede for others.
It is interesting that Job is shown in the first chapter as an interceder and in the last chapter as an interceder ... and sandwiched in between is the turmoil brought upon Job by satan. definitely something to ponder and not take lightly.

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Here is the thing, the book does give us a clear, complete reason why God allowed it and all of these people pretending to read this book skip right over the first chapter which could not be any clearer. The honest answer from anyone who has truly studied this book is that we do know fully why Job suffered.

Job 1:5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.

This verse precedes God talking to Satan. It is one of the two most crucial verses of the entire book. Job was not praying for his sins to be forgiven, he was interceding on behalf of his children and paying the price for their sins. That is what Jesus did on the cross. That is what the priesthood of Melchizedek is all about, interceding for others to pay the price for them. Jesus is a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek. The book of Job shows Job paying the price for others and it concludes with

Job 42:8 Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.

This is how it concludes, Job interceding for his three friends. There is a price that must be paid to intercede for others. The book of Job is for those who are not interested in simply being "blessed" by God, but they want to have a ministry that can help rescue others. This is the conclusion of the book of James and the conclusion of Paul's ministry (book of Philemon) and the point of the book of Hebrews.

James 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

The New Testament explains to us that there is only one acceptable sacrifice, and that is Jesus Christ. There is no record in the bible of anyone being saved because a sinful man sacrificed for them.

It should be obvious to all that Job sacrificing for his sons did not work. All Job’s children died. There is no evidence for assuming that they will ever be resurrected unto eternal life. The reason God directed Job to plead for his friends was because Job had pleaded to God that his friends might plead for him. God accepted the three friends because they brought the offering, which was a sign of repentance on their part. It was only after Job prayed for his friends that Job was accepted also.

God does not tell us that Job is a son. Job tells us that he is a hired servant. The bible tells us that hired servants cannot partake of the Passover Lamb. To me that means hired servants cannot partake of Christ. Only if you become a bondservant can you partake of the Passover Lamb. God telling Satan that Job was blameless and upright does not equate to salvation. It means God did not hold Job accountable for his sins because he was without knowledge and did not intentionally sin.

The picture for this is Saul, later called Paul, who was going about having Christians killed. Consider Phl 3:4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. Job was not under the law, but the same principle applies. Job had zeal for God.

Paul said, Rom 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Job’s problem was that he had not submitted to God’s righteousness. God said to Job, “Will you condemn me that you might be righteous.” (Job 40:8)

The bible says once a righteous man sins, he is no longer righteous. (Ezekiel 3:20) It is only God's righteousness that is eternal.

James 5:20 does not say you can save someone because of your righteousness. It means if you witness and the person you witness to realizes the error of their way, and repent, Christ will save them. We water and God gives the increase.

God put Job through the ringer because that is what it took for Job to realize the error of his way.
 
You have avoided the verse where God said Job was without knowledge.

Elihu and God


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Elihu said, “Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom.” Job 34:35
Elihu said, “Therefore doth Job open his mouth in vain: he multiplieth words without knowledge.” Job 35:16

The Lord said, “Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?” Job 38:2

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Elihu said, “If thou canst answer me, set they words in order before me, stand up.” Job 33:5

The Lord said, “Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.” Job 38:3

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Elihu said, “Hearken unto this, O Job: stand still, and consider the wondrous works of God. Dost thou know when God disposed them, and caused the light of his cloud to shine? Dost thou know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him which is perfect in knowledge? Job 37:14-16

The Lord said, “Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? Canst thou set the dominion therof in the earth? Canst thou lift up they voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?” Job 38:33-34

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Elihu said, “Shall even he that hateth right govern? And wilt thou condemn him that is most just?” Job 34-17

The Lord said, “Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? He that reproveth God, let him answer it.” Job 40:2

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Elihu said, “Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his wrath kindled, because he justified himself rather than God.” Job 32:2
Elihu said, “Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, my righteousness is more than God’s?” Job 35:2

The Lord said, “Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? Wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?” Job 40:8

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In every case Elihu said it first and the Lord repeated.

Thank you for laying all of this out here and helping support my point.

I understand that Elihu is some people's precious, but unfortunately, I believe you have been deceived by him, by his motives, and by his role in the story. Elihu is the foil.

I see the similarities in the words of Elihu and what God says to Job. However, nobody needs Elihu to speak for God, nor is it written anywhere that God sent him to Job. Elihu appoints himself. That’s it.

Yes, in this situation, Job spoke about things he did not know about. But how are those things characterized? Job says they were things “too wonderful” for him. Take for example, “I know that my Redeemer lives and one day He will stand upon the earth.” This is a prophetic statement of Jesus Christ who was to come, and did come. Job, in his suffering, revealed a profound truth.

But did you notice the rest of Elihu’s statement? Elihu says Job spoke without knowledge, followed by the claim that Job’s words were “without wisdom”. Does God also say this about Job? That Job’s words were “without wisdom”? No. God does not repeat this lie from Elihu.

We know this is a flagrant lie because Job provides the very definition of wisdom in Job 28:28. It is a definition that is confirmed in other places in Scripture, too.

So you see, Elihu, like satan, takes a little bit of truth and mixes it with a lie. This is how deceivers work, isn’t it? They make you think and believe what they are saying is right, but actually they are trying to mislead people. This is Elihu.

Elihu self-appoints himself to be in the place of God for Job. Elihu claims that he is “perfect in knowledge” then later says that God is “perfect in knowledge”. Elihu is equating himself with God. This is what the antichrist will do in the end times.

Do not be deceived by Elihu.

I think if you rethink your view of Elihu, it will help you rethink how you interpret the rest of the book.

Hope this helps.
 
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The New Testament explains to us that there is only one acceptable sacrifice, and that is Jesus Christ. There is no record in the bible of anyone being saved because a sinful man sacrificed for them...

God put Job through the ringer because that is what it took for Job to realize the error of his way.
You're right about one thing, and it's the one thing nobody in this conversation is contesting: Jesus Christ's blood is the only sacrifice that pays the price of redemption. "Ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold... But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Peter 1:18-19). "Nor yet that he should offer himself often... but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself" (Hebrews 9:25-26). Nobody is claiming Job's sacrifice atoned for sin in the eternal, once-for-all sense. That's not the argument, and knocking it down doesn't touch the actual claim: that all believers function as priests under Christ our High Priest, and that this priestly function - not atoning, but interceding - is what we see in Job from the very first chapter.

START WITH THE PRIESTHOOD OF ALL BELIEVERS

Peter tells the church: "Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 2:5). And again: "Ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation" (1 Peter 2:9). John writes that Christ "hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father" (Revelation 1:6), and again, "hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth" (Revelation 5:10). This is not a metaphor reserved for clergy. Every believer is a priest. And over all of us stands one High Priest: "Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God... Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace" (Hebrews 4:14, 16). "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them" (Hebrews 7:25).

So the New Testament pattern is not complicated: Christ alone atones. Every believer intercedes. Those are two different functions, and collapsing them into one is exactly the mistake your rebuttal makes when it treats "Job prayed for his friends" as a claim about redemption's price.

MELCHIZEDEK, NOT LEVI - AND JOB PREDATES MOSES

Here is the point that your Passover argument runs straight into: "There is no record in the bible of anyone being saved because a sinful man sacrificed for them... God does not tell us that Job is a son. Job tells us that he is a hired servant. The bible tells us that hired servants cannot partake of the Passover Lamb... Only if you become a bondservant can you partake of the Passover Lamb."

This argument imports a Mosaic ceremonial law - Exodus 12:45, that a hired servant shall not eat the Passover - and applies it backward onto a man who lived centuries before Moses, before Sinai, before the Passover existed as an institution at all. That's not just an anachronism, it's the exact error the book of Hebrews spends three chapters correcting. Hebrews doesn't measure Melchizedek by Levitical law; it argues the reverse - that Levi himself, "who receiveth tithes, payed tithes" through Abraham to Melchizedek, because Melchizedek's order is older and greater (Hebrews 7:9-10). "For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood" (Hebrews 7:14). Christ's own priesthood is validated by explicitly NOT being measured against the law of a carnal commandment: "For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law" (Hebrews 7:12), and Christ is priest "not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life" (Hebrews 7:16).

If Job's status as priest cannot be judged by a law that didn't exist yet, then the Passover exclusion clause disqualifies nothing. It's a rule from a covenant Job was never under, applied to void a priesthood that predates and outranks that covenant. Job is not a Levitical hired servant failing a Mosaic test. He is a Melchizedekian priest-king, in the company of Melchizedek and Jethro, operating under a wholly different order - exactly the order Hebrews 7 says is greater.

JOB 1:5 TO JOB 42:8 - THE FULL ARC

This is the piece the rebuttal skips entirely, and it's decisive. Job's priestly intercession isn't a reaction to his suffering - it's the very first thing we learn about him, before a single calamity occurs: "And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually" (Job 1:5).

Before the fire falls, before the Sabeans, before the boils, before Satan is ever given permission to touch him - Job is already standing as intercessor for people who are not himself, on the basis of sin he cannot even confirm, "continually." That is the priestly office in its plainest form: mediating for others out of love and reverence, not certainty of their guilt. The book does not introduce this as incidental color. It's the frame the whole story sits inside.

And the book closes by returning to exactly that frame: "My servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, like my servant Job" (Job 42:8). The claim that "God accepted the three friends because they brought the offering" reverses what the verse says. The offering is commanded, but acceptance is explicitly conditioned on Job's intercession: God will deal with the friends "after their folly" unless Job prays for them. The offering doesn't work on its own. Job's mediation is what stands between the friends and judgment. That is Job 1:5's pattern, completed. The book begins with Job interceding for his own household and ends with Job interceding for outsiders who mocked him - the priestly office widening, not weakening, across the narrative arc.

JAMES 5:20 - THIS IS THE NEW TESTAMENT MINISTRY

"James 5:20 does not say you can save someone because of your righteousness... We water and God gives the increase" - agreed, and that is precisely the point, not a rebuttal of it. James writes: "Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins" (James 5:20). The convert-er doesn't atone. He doesn't pay for sin. He is the instrument through whom God, by His own righteousness, saves. That is a priestly, intercessory function performed by an ordinary believer - not Christ, not a Levite, just "a brother" (v.19) - and James calls the result "saving a soul from death." That is the New Testament's own language for exactly the kind of ministry Job performs for his sons in Job 1:5 and for his friends in Job 42:8: standing in the gap so that others don't bear the full weight of what they've done. Paul frames the same function corporately: "God... hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation... we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God" (2 Corinthians 5:18, 20). And again: "Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one... Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ" (Galatians 6:1-2).

PHILEMON - PAUL'S MINISTRY MADE CONCRETE

Paul doesn't just teach this pattern; he enacts it. Writing to Philemon about the runaway slave Onesimus, Paul says: "If he hath wronged thee, or oweth thee ought, put that on mine account; I Paul have written it with mine own hand, I will repay it" (Philemon 1:18-19). Paul is not claiming to atone for Onesimus's sin before God - he is standing between a wronged man and a debtor, offering to personally absorb the cost so reconciliation can happen. That is priestly intercession modeled on Christ, in miniature, by a man who knew better than anyone that only Christ's blood pays the actual, eternal debt. It didn't stop Paul from interceding anyway - because interceding is the believer's calling, not a rival to Christ's finished work.

THE DISTINCTION THAT MATTERS

The whole objection rests on a category error: treating priestly intercession as a claim to atone. It isn't. Christ atones - once, sufficiently, finally: "By one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Hebrews 10:14). Believers intercede - continually, imperfectly, under Him, exactly as Job did for his sons before disaster ever touched him, and for his friends after the whirlwind had spoken. "Job's problem was that he had not submitted to God's righteousness" doesn't square with a man God Himself calls "blameless" to Satan (Job 1:8) and whom God commands the friends to seek out for intercession specifically because Job "spoken of me the thing that is right" (Job 42:7-8). Job's rebuke in chapters 38-41 is about the limits of his understanding, not the sincerity of his righteousness or the validity of his priestly office - and the text settles the matter by having God restore him and use him as mediator in the very next verses.
 
bingo ... the battle is spiritual ... something which Job and his friends were completely ignorant ... and something we do not fully comprehend ... even though we have Scripture pointing us to the underlying spiritual conflict we are completely unaware of as our focus is distracted by the physical realm.

thinking about ... 2 Kings 6 ... Daniel 10 ... 2 Corinthians 10 ... Ephesians 6 ... 1 Peter 5 ... to name a few sections which briefly mention the spiritual warfare going on around us (of which mankind for the most part is unaware).

satan cannot touch God. satan knows he cannot harm God. satan goes after God's people ... and if there were no people of God for satan to torment, he would go after those who were not God's people. satan absolutely hates mankind because mankind was made in the image of God.


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Before man was created?
It was just angels and God.

What was the historical setting on the old earth at that time?
Fossil evidence...
Why do we see prehistoric dinosaurs and a primitive type man?


What did Satan do as to rebel against God?
 
God does not tell us that Job is a son. Job tells us that he is a hired servant. The bible tells us that hired servants cannot partake of the Passover Lamb.
Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant [Hebrew = ʿeḇeḏ] Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant
[Hebrew = ʿeḇeḏ] Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

The words "my servant" are translated from the Hebrew word eḇeḏ ... now consider what is written in Exodus concerning whether the eḇeḏ can eat of. the Passover Lamb.

Exodus 12:43-44

43 And the LORD said unto Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance of the passover: There shall no stranger eat thereof:

44 But every man's servant [Hebrew = ʿeḇeḏ] that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof.


The "hired servant" that cannot partake of the Passover Lamb:

Exodus 12:45 A foreigner and an hired servant
[Hebrew = śāḵîr] shall not eat thereof.

I explained this to you back in February (Post 65) ... you continue to bring up the same issues which have already been explained to you. God's Word tells you the hired servant (eḇeḏ) can partake of the Passover and you have known this (or should have known) since February). Now, six months later, you bring up the same issue which shows your complete and utter disregard of God's Word concerning Job.

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Before man was created?
It was just angels and God.

What was the historical setting on the old earth at that time?
Fossil evidence...
Why do we see prehistoric dinosaurs and a primitive type man?

What did Satan do as to rebel against God?
Isaiah 14:12-14

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.


satan craves worship and, sadly, there are some who worship him.

For those who do not worship him, he distracts and takes our focus off of God ... not exactly what he wants, but if he can keep us from our wholehearted worship of God, he'll settle for that.

According to Ezekiel 28:17, satan corrupted his wisdom ... his heart was full of arrogant pride because of his beauty (radiance, splendor). He was the anointed cherub and fell from grace due to his pride.


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Isaiah 14:12-14

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.


satan craves worship and, sadly, there are some who worship him.

For those who do not worship him, he distracts and takes our focus off of God ... not exactly what he wants, but if he can keep us from our wholehearted worship of God, he'll settle for that.

According to Ezekiel 28:17, satan corrupted his wisdom ... his heart was full of arrogant pride because of his beauty (radiance, splendor). He was the anointed cherub and fell from grace due to his pride.


.

Not only did Satan want to receive the worship.
In his heart?
He craved to REPLACE the Lord.

Without knowing how to express what it was he desired?
He was a murderer from the beginning!
Murder the Lord and get Him out of the way... Take his place.

Now, in order to judge Satan? How does God explain to Satan how horrible it was that he craved?

God creates man... and allowed for the fall. While God knowing full well that the atonement
would be provided for man before the foundation of the world.

In doing so?

Fallen man became God's perfect teaching tool to show angels why God needed to judge
and condemn Satan and his angels. Why they could no longer be allowed to continue to live together.

When the angels witnessed to jealousy and murders by men they soon got the picture as to what Satan felt towards the Lord!

That is why Jesus said....

If anyone harbors a malicious anger against his brother he has committed murder. Matthew 5:21-22.

Satan was a murdered from the beginning. John 8:44

Satan's fall was jealousy turning in to murder.




........
 
Not only did Satan want to receive the worship.
In his heart?
He craved to REPLACE the Lord.

Without knowing how to express what it was he desired?
He was a murderer from the beginning!
Murder the Lord and get Him out of the way... Take his place.
right ... and the first commandment ... thou shalt have no other gods before me (Exodus 20:3) ... no gods before God's face. Come before God with open face ... whole heart ... clear conscience.

satan did not do that ... he said in his heart (Isaiah 14:13) ... "I will be like the Most High" (Isaiah 14:14). He knew he could never be the Most High, he said would be "like the most high". God knew what was in his innermost thoughts and when he fell, he took some angels with him.

and interestingly ... God's Word tells us about the antichrist who will appear in the latter days. "antichrist" does not mean "against Christ" ... it means in the place of Christ.





Now, in order to judge Satan? How does God explain to Satan how horrible it was that he craved?

God creates man... and allowed for the fall. While God knowing full well that the atonement
would be provided for man before the foundation of the world.

In doing so?

Fallen man became God's perfect teaching tool to show angels why God needed to judge
and condemn Satan and his angels. Why they could no longer be allowed to continue to live together.
When the angels witnessed to jealousy and murders they soon got the picture as to what Satan felt towards the Lord!
it's really interesting what is written in Ephesians 3 about the church ... the one body in the Lord Jesus Christ over which He is the Head ... that the manifold wisdom of God is revealed to principalities and powers in the heavenlies (Ephesians 3:1-11).

God does not reveal His manifold wisdom to us through angels ... God reveals His manifold wisdom to angels (all angels, whether fallen or not) through faithful believers who stand together in faith, looking to the Lord Jesus Christ as Head to supply all that is needed to grow and mature so we are not tossed about by every wind of doctrine (Ephesians 4:11-16).

If believers would stand together in faith, no factions, no one claiming they do not need the other, there could possibly be a true display of God's magnificent eternal purpose. But instead of portraying what God intended, we argue and bicker, ignore the truth set forth in God's Word because it does not align with what we want God's Word to say, etc., etc. ... smh





That is why Jesus said....

If anyone harbors a malicious anger against his brother he has committed murder. Matthew 5:21-22.

Satan was a murdered from the beginning. John 8:44

Satan's fall was jealousy turning in to murder.
Interesting that all the way back in Genesis 4, it is revealed that Cain's jealousy toward Abel led to murder.

God said the blood of Abel cries out from the earth (Genesis 4:10).


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right ... and the first commandment ... thou shalt have no other gods before me (Exodus 20:3) ... no gods before God's face. Come before God with open face ... whole heart ... clear conscience.

satan did not do that ... he said in his heart (Isaiah 14:13) ... "I will be like the Most High" (Isaiah 14:14). He knew he could never be the Most High, he said would be "like the most high". God knew what was in his innermost thoughts and when he fell, he took some angels with him.

and interestingly ... God's Word tells us about the antichrist who will appear in the latter days. "antichrist" does not mean "against Christ" ... it means in the place of Christ.





it's really interesting what is written in Ephesians 3 about the church ... the one body in the Lord Jesus Christ over which He is the Head ... that the manifold wisdom of God is revealed to principalities and powers in the heavenlies (Ephesians 3:1-11).

God does not reveal His manifold wisdom to us through angels ... God reveals His manifold wisdom to angels (all angels, whether fallen or not) through faithful believers who stand together in faith, looking to the Lord Jesus Christ as Head to supply all that is needed to grow and mature so we are not tossed about by every wind of doctrine (Ephesians 4:11-16).

If believers would stand together in faith, no factions, no one claiming they do not need the other, there could possibly be a true display of God's magnificent eternal purpose. But instead of portraying what God intended, we argue and bicker, ignore the truth set forth in God's Word because it does not align with what we want God's Word to say, etc., etc. ... smh





Interesting that all the way back in Genesis 4, it is revealed that Cain's jealousy toward Abel led to murder.

God said the blood of Abel cries out from the earth (Genesis 4:10).


.

The million dollar question?

How could Satan even consider making himself like the Most High?

The hint is to be found in how God (in Jesus) appeared to man.
He appeared as a man. As one of them!

That enabled evil men to think it possible to have him crucified.
For they thought Jesus was only a man.

Now?

Before man was ever created?
How did God appear to the angels?

As the Angel of Jehovah!
But, there is one problem with that.
It could not have been Jesus in his pre-incarnate state.

Why? Jesus as being fully man?
Would be a soul!
Angels on the other hand?
Are spirits.

So...

Who was the Angel of Jehovah?
The Holy Spirit appearing to the angels as one of them in angelic bodily form.

The Angel of Jehovah could have easily told all the angels the equivalent to...
"To see me is to see the Father!"

That is how Satan felt free to have the audacity to covet the Throne of the Most High.

No... I did not think of that myself.