The book of Job

reneweddaybyday · Aug 18, 2026

Genez said:
God protects and blesses mature believers in the devil's world.
Satan had not been considering Job for that reason.

do not agree satan had not been considering Job because satan was aware of the hedge. satan may not have been able to touch Job, but he was aware of the fact that he couldn't get near Job.

If satan had not been considering Job, he would have had to go check Job out ... then come back and indicate there was a hedge around Job ... but that is not what happened. Job knew right then and there.

Genez said:
Interesting to ponder...
God instigated the idea of Satan testing Job.

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord,
and Satan also came among them. The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?”
Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking
up and down on it.”

And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like
him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?”
Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for no reason?
Have you not put a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side?
You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. Job 1:6-10grace and peace .........

I do not believe this passage indicates God "instigated" anything. God mentioned Job to satan, but it is clear from the discussion that satan had already considered Job.

If I mention something to you ... ice cream ... and you go out and purchase and eat ice cream, I am not responsible for you going out and purchasing and eating the ice cream.

At the end of the day, satan is wholly responsible for his actions.

God is wholly responsible for preserving Job's life ... even though Job suffered loss and physical pain and suffering at the hand of satan.

.

Genez · Aug 19, 2026

reneweddaybyday said:
I do not believe this passage indicates God "instigated" anything. God mentioned Job to satan, but it is clear from the discussion that satan had already considered Job.

Because of God's protective hedge around Job, Satan was not seeing Job as someone approachable.
After burning his fingers too many times, Satan was simply leaving Job alone.

christophernyc · Aug 19, 2026

reneweddaybyday said:
We know satan had already "considered" Job because satan was aware of the hedge God had placed around Job.

Totally agree — and it was that hedge that prevented satan from attacking Job.

I do not describe that discussion as God telling satan to go attack Job.

OK, me too. So you have said what it’s not, but can you describe what God’s involvement is ?

What is your explanation for these verses?

Job 1:12
And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power...

Job 2:3
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst Me against him, to destroy him without cause.

Job 2:6
And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand

How do you explain these statements from God?

Also, to answer your question, we should use Scripture to interpret Scripture, yes?

First we can look at Job’s words.

Job 1:21
And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.

Job 2:10
What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?

Next we can look at what the author writes in the last chapter.

Job 42:11
Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.

Notice it does not say all the evil “they believed” the Lord had brought upon him. The author simply states “all the evil that the Lord had brought upon him.” It stated as a matter of fact. It’s not stated as what the friends and family “felt” or “thought” or “misunderstood” or “believed” etc etc. It simply states “all the evil that the Lord had brought upon him."

My hunch is that you might not want this to be the case, but what evidence or support do you have otherwise?

Shepherd · Aug 19, 2026

Genez said:
Angels in Scripture have been referred to as "sons of God." Example - Job 1:6.

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord,
and Satan came also among them.

.

The only places in scripture which actually define what "sons of God" are, refer to believers. I have a few points for you to consider........

#1 Satan had already been kicked out of Heaven, so it seems dubious that the interaction "before the Lord", in Job 1:6, took place in Heaven.
#2 Abraham "stood "before the Lord" on planet earth
#3 Moses was "before the Lord" on planet earth
#4 David "danced" " before the Lord" on terra firma as well.
#5 The Word of God(at least not in the King James) never defines "sons of God" as being "angels", as a matter of fact, one passage actually says that God never, "at any time", called an angel "my son". So why would He referr to them as "sons of God" anywhere else?

So, I believe that the "sons of God" referred to in Job chapters 1 and 2 were simply believers, coming to worship, pray or "present themselves before the Lord " located on planet earth like Abraham, Moses and David were, and brother Job was among those "sons of God" (being a believer himself), and Satan came among the congregation too, just like he does in churches today.

Genez · Aug 19, 2026

Shepherd said:
The only places in scripture which actually define what "sons of God" are, refer to believers. I have a few points for you to consider........

#1 Satan had already been kicked out of Heaven, so it seems dubious that the interaction "before the Lord", in Job 1:6, took place in Heaven.

Not yet!

He will be kicked out of heaven some time during the Tribulation...

Right now he appears before the Lord to accuse the brethren day and night.

Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power
and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down. Revelation 12:10

.......

reneweddaybyday · Aug 20, 2026

Genez said:
Because of God's protective hedge around Job, Satan was not seeing Job as someone approachable.
After burning his fingers too many times, Satan was simply leaving Job alone.

well ... satan is satan and he "walks about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour" (1 Peter 5:8).

satan cannot be everywhere at once so he comes and goes as he roams about.

his ministry is to steal, kill destroy (John 10:10).

God tells us to "resist steadfast in the faith" (1 Peter 5:9).

God equips born again believers with His armour (Ephesians 6:10-18). I'm not sure believers in the OT were similarly equipped.

The only way to overcome the wicked one is through faith in Him Who is greater than he who is in the world.

.

Genez · Aug 20, 2026

reneweddaybyday said:
well ... satan is satan and he "walks about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour" (1 Peter 5:8).

"May" devour. "May."
He knew that Job was not one to be devoured by virtue of the protective hedge God provided for Job.

tttallison · Aug 20, 2026

Genez said:
Not yet!

He will be kicked out of heaven some time during the Tribulation...

Right now he appears before the Lord to accuse the brethren day and night.

Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power
and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down. Revelation 12:10

.......

But the tribulation already occurred, just ask any of the brethren that was there in 70 AD. Jesus said I am come but for the lost sheep of Israel.

Jesus was cutoff in the middle of the 70th week. You can't claim the 70th week is the 7 year tribulation period. The bible doesn't list any seven year period of tribulation, and if Jesus was cut off in the middle of the 70th week that leaves only 3 and 1/2 years.

The Jewish nation was set aside in 70 AD for the overspreading of abominations. They have no way to be forgiven as a nation since they crucified their high priest, and have no earthly temple system to have their sins forgiven. God will again deal with Israel when the time of the Gentiles is completed.

reneweddaybyday · Aug 20, 2026

christophernyc said:
So you have said what it’s not, but can you describe what God’s involvement is ?

God restrained satan from outright killing Job.

christophernyc said:
What is your explanation for these verses?

Job 1:12
And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power...

In creation, Adam and Eve were given dominion. When Adam and Eve sinned, dominion was delivered to satan (Luke 4:6). That is why satan is referred to as the prince of this world (John 14:30) ... the god of this world (2 Corinthians 4:4) ... the prince of the power of the air (Ephesians 2:2). As such, satan has certain authority over the things of this world.

God stated a fact in Job 1:12 ... "all that he hath is in thy power" ... but satan's "power" is limited and is subject to God's sovereignty over all ... just as Adam's dominion was subject to God's sovereignty over all.

christophernyc said:
Job 2:3
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst Me against him, to destroy him without cause.

Do you believe God killed Job's children, killed Job's servants, destroyed Job's flocks and herds?

satan wanted God to move against Job, but only satan moved against Job, and that without cause.

the words "although thou movedst me" are translated from the Hebrew word sûṯ which means to incite, to urge, to allure, to entice, to instigate.

While satan urged God to afflict Job ... God did not do so in Job 1 or in Job 2.

satan was the one who "moved" against Job ...

christophernyc said:
Job 2:6
And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand

How do you explain these statements from God?

finish the verse:

Job 2:6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.

God restrained satan from killing Job.

christophernyc said:
Also, to answer your question, we should use Scripture to interpret Scripture, yes?

First we can look at Job’s words.

Job 1:21
And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.

Job 2:10
What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?

please remember that Job and his friends were completely ignorant of satan's involvement.

What do you think Job and his friends would have said if they had known satan was behind the disaster? Would they have claimed it was God Who killed Job's children, servants, and herds? ... would they have claimed God smote Job with sore boils? ... or would they have claimed it was satan?

christophernyc said:
Next we can look at what the author writes in the last chapter.

Job 42:11
Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.

Notice it does not say all the evil “they believed” the Lord had brought upon him. The author simply states “all the evil that the Lord had brought upon him.” It stated as a matter of fact. It’s not stated as what the friends and family “felt” or “thought” or “misunderstood” or “believed” etc etc. It simply states “all the evil that the Lord had brought upon him."

Either satan wrought evil upon Job or God did. I believe it was satan who wrought evil upon Job.

how do you align Job 2:7 which clearly states satan "smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown" with what is written in Job 42:11 which states Job's brethren, sisters, acquaintances "bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him"? ... both statements cannot be true. Either satan did it or God did it. I believe satan did it.

christophernyc said:
My hunch is that you might not want this to be the case, but what evidence or support do you have otherwise?

I understand concept of God "allowing" this or that but that is not the same as God doing what He tells us satan does ... any more than God knowing before He created Adam that Adam would sin equals God having sinned ... or God knowing beforehand that you or I will sin equals God sinning.

Adam was responsible for what he did.
satan was responsible for what he did and does.
you are responsible for what you do.
I am responsible for what I do.

.

reneweddaybyday · Aug 20, 2026

Genez said:
"May" devour. "May."
He knew that Job was not one to be devoured by virtue of the protective hedge God provided for Job.

it was still satan who killed Job's children, Job's servants, Job's herds, and it was satan who smote Job with sore boils.

and I still believe that if Job's friends had comforted Job with words of faith rather than accusing him of hidden sin for which he needed to repent, Job's suffering would have been less mentally/emotionally intense for him.

Job still would have had to suffer through the boils, which are very painful. But he also would have had friends encouraging him to stand strong in faith ... this is nothing but an attack from the adversary ... God is with you and greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world ... resist the devil and he will flee ... etc., etc.

We know about satan because satan has been exposed. I do not believe Job or his friends knew about satan.

.

tttallison · Aug 20, 2026

reneweddaybyday said:
it was still satan who killed Job's children, Job's servants, Job's herds, and it was satan who smote Job with sore boils.

and I still believe that if Job's friends had comforted Job with words of faith rather than accusing him of hidden sin for which he needed to repent, Job's suffering would have been less mentally/emotionally intense for him.

Job still would have had to suffer through the boils, which are very painful. But he also would have had friends encouraging him to stand strong in faith ... this is nothing but an attack from the adversary ... God is with you and greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world ... resist the devil and he will flee ... etc., etc.

We know about satan because satan has been exposed. I do not believe Job or his friends knew about satan.

.

Job 23:12 Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food.

Was Job hallucinating?

tttallison · Aug 20, 2026

reneweddaybyday said:
it was still satan who killed Job's children, Job's servants, Job's herds, and it was satan who smote Job with sore boils.

and I still believe that if Job's friends had comforted Job with words of faith rather than accusing him of hidden sin for which he needed to repent, Job's suffering would have been less mentally/emotionally intense for him.

Job still would have had to suffer through the boils, which are very painful. But he also would have had friends encouraging him to stand strong in faith ... this is nothing but an attack from the adversary ... God is with you and greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world ... resist the devil and he will flee ... etc., etc.

We know about satan because satan has been exposed. I do not believe Job or his friends knew about satan.

.

Job 12:9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the LORD hath wrought this? In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind. Doth not the ear try words? and the mouth taste his meat? With the ancient is wisdom; and in length of days understanding. With him is wisdom and strength, he hath counsel and understanding.

Job 12:16 With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his.

The evidence is that Job had plenty of knowledge obtained from the elders, He just didn't know how to be right with God. The question should be, why wouldn't Job know about Satan? It wasn't like Satan just showed up on the day that the New Testament was written.

Genez · Aug 20, 2026

tttallison said:
But the tribulation already occurred, just ask any of the brethren that was there in 70 AD. Jesus said I am come but for the lost sheep of Israel.

Jesus was cutoff in the middle of the 70th week. You can't claim the 70th week is the 7 year tribulation period. The bible doesn't list any seven year period of tribulation, and if Jesus was cut off in the middle of the 70th week that leaves only 3 and 1/2 years.

The Jewish nation was set aside in 70 AD for the overspreading of abominations. They have no way to be forgiven as a nation since they crucified their high priest, and have no earthly temple system to have their sins forgiven. God will again deal with Israel when the time of the Gentiles is completed.

You know what happens if Satan can wipe the Jews from the face of the earth?

No you don't.

Genez · Aug 20, 2026

reneweddaybyday said:
it was still satan who killed Job's children, Job's servants, Job's herds, and it was satan who smote Job with sore boils.

and I still believe that if Job's friends had comforted Job with words of faith rather than accusing him of hidden sin for which he needed to repent, Job's suffering would have been less mentally/emotionally intense for him.

Job still would have had to suffer through the boils, which are very painful. But he also would have had friends encouraging him to stand strong in faith ... this is nothing but an attack from the adversary ... God is with you and greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world ... resist the devil and he will flee ... etc., etc.

We know about satan because satan has been exposed. I do not believe Job or his friends knew about satan.

.

You still do not know why Job was suffering.

Genez · Aug 20, 2026

tttallison said:
But the tribulation already occurred, just ask any of the brethren that was there in 70 AD. Jesus said I am come but for the lost sheep of Israel.

A tribulation took place in 70AD.

But, not THE tribulation.

Where were the 144,000 Jewish evangelists and the Two Witnesses in the Temple?

The 144,000 are believed to be Jewish evangelists sealed by God during the tribulation period to spread the Gospel. The Two Witnesses, mentioned in Revelation, are also significant figures who prophesy and perform miracles in the Temple before facing opposition.

Missed that little detail?

tttallison · Aug 20, 2026

Genez said:
A tribulation took place in 70AD.

But, not THE tribulation.

Where were the 144,000 Jewish evangelists and the Two Witnesses in the Temple?

The 144,000 are believed to be Jewish evangelists sealed by God during the tribulation period to spread the Gospel. The Two Witnesses, mentioned in Revelation, are also significant figures who prophesy and perform miracles in the Temple before facing opposition.

Missed that little detail?

If you read somewhere in the bible that the 144 thousand Jews were going to be evangelists please let me know where I can read that.

My bible tells me the 144 thousand were the firstfruits, resurrected with Christ, and follow him wherever Christ goes. If not, tell me who came up out of the graves in Mat 27:52-53 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

The 144 thousand are pre-millennium, and the two witnesses are post-millennium.

christophernyc · Aug 20, 2026

reneweddaybyday said:
God restrained satan from outright killing Job.

You seem to be avoiding the question. What is God's involvement prior to the attacks? Besides setting limits for satan, how do you describe God's actions precipitating Job's ordeal, specifically in his dialogue with satan?

If your view is that satan already had access to Job because of the Fall of Man, then it stands to reason satan would have already attacked Job. No?

Evidently, God had to remove the hedge so that satan could attack. Yes? Otherwise satan would not be able to attack Job, would he? How would you explain otherwise?

please remember that Job and his friends were completely ignorant of satan's involvement.

What do you think Job and his friends would have said if they had known satan was behind the disaster? Would they have claimed it was God Who killed Job's children, servants, and herds? ... would they have claimed God smote Job with sore boils? ... or would they have claimed it was satan?

OK the friends and family were ignorant of satan's involvement. However, the author was not ignorant of satan's involvement. The author who wrote chapters 1 & 2 also wrote Job 42:11 where it is stated as a matter of fact that it was the Lord who brought all the evil on Job. Do you agree or disagree with the author?

Either satan wrought evil upon Job or God did. I believe it was satan who wrought evil upon Job.

how do you align Job 2:7 which clearly states satan "smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown" with what is written in Job 42:11 which states Job's brethren, sisters, acquaintances "bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him"? ... both statements cannot be true.

No??

As an example, Scripture says Joseph's brothers sold him to Ishmaelites and the Ishmaelites took Joseph to Egypt. Yes?

Then the psalmist states that God sent Joseph to Egypt before them [Israel] and then Israel came to Egypt later. Right?

I believe both of these are true. Is there a need to pick one over the other? Should I limit the fullness of Scripture just because something in Scripture butts up against my limited human understanding?

Genesis 37:28
Then there passed by Midianites merchantmen; and they [Joseph’s brothers] drew and lifted up Joseph out of the pit, and sold Joseph to the Ishmeelites for twenty pieces of silver: and they brought Joseph into Egypt.

Psalm 105:16, 17
Moreover He [God] called for a famine upon the land: He brake the whole staff of bread.
He [God] sent a man before them, even Joseph, who was sold for a servant:

I understand concept of God "allowing" this or that but that is not the same as God doing what He tells us satan does ... any more than God knowing before He created Adam that Adam would sin equals God having sinned ... or God knowing beforehand that you or I will sin equals God sinning.

This notion is a red herring and it is conflating two different things.

Again, in addition to God setting limits to what satan is allowed to do, what part does God play in the tribulations that afflict Job? Is your view that God is simply passively uninvolved in how Job's suffering transpires?

And what is the purpose then of the conversations between God and satan prior to Job's ordeal?

Genez · Aug 20, 2026

tttallison said:
If you read somewhere in the bible that the 144 thousand Jews were going to be evangelists please let me know where I can read that.

My bible tells me the 144 thousand were the firstfruits, resurrected with Christ, and follow him wherever Christ goes. If not, tell me who came up out of the graves in Mat 27:52-53 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

The 144 thousand are pre-millennium, and the two witnesses are post-millennium.

Enjoy your fantasy.

reneweddaybyday · Aug 20, 2026

tttallison said:
Job 23:12 Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food.

Was Job hallucinating?

Was Jeremiah "hallucinating" ? ... Jeremiah 15:16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart ...

Was the Lord Jesus Christ "hallucinating" ? ... Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Do you understand that God's Word is more vital to us than "necessary food"?

.

tttallison · Aug 20, 2026

reneweddaybyday said:
Was Jeremiah "hallucinating" ? ... Jeremiah 15:16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart ...

Was the Lord Jesus Christ "hallucinating" ? ... Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Do you understand that God's Word is more vital to us than "necessary food"?

.

My point was that Job wasn't hallucinating. You have implied that Job had no knowledge of Satan. Do you have any information to substantiate the claim that Job had no knowledge of Satan?

The book of Job

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