OSAS origins and comparison

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Do you have a verse for that?

Start with this. Foundationally, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, called the Spirit of Christ, is the life.

Romans 8:9-11 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

That indwelling is what places us in Christ. 1 Corinthians 12:13. Then, here's a play by play of Romans 8:9-11.....

Romans 6:3-11 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

In short, the indwelling is the life. That what places us in Christ and makes us born again, and justifies us.
 
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Why is it important to you to have an assurance from God that you will be securely saved into eternity?
Do you really hear yourself? You don't want to know your eternal destiny????
God has demonstrated His love for us in that while we were sinners Christ died for us. Surely, today He deserves our love and service in return, whether we persevere faithful to Him or not. Would you refuse to serve Him, if He did not guarantee you eternal security? Would that not be the tail wagging the dog?

Yes. We should love ourselves, because we are made in God’s image and He has imputed a high value to us. How does loving ourselves justify us insisting on having a guarantee of eternal security?
It is obvious that God's love for us would involve giving us assurances that we will be with Him forever--not just temporarily.
 

Who Is Sealed, Why, and When?​

You are making a very strong conclusion from the word “sealed,” but there is an important question that must be answered first: Who is sealed, why are they sealed, and when are they sealed?

The seal of God certainly means that something belongs to God and is under His authority. But the existence of a seal does not automatically prove that a person can never afterward reject God. Look at what Jesus Himself said. Jesus said His sheep are those who hear His voice and follow Him: My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.” (John 10:27-28 NKJV) Notice the description: they hear His voice and they follow Him.

esus gave an even stronger warning when He described Himself as the vine and His disciples as branches:

“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.” (John 15:2 NKJV)

So we have to ask: If being “in Christ” automatically meant that falling away was impossible, why would Jesus warn His own disciples about failing to abide in Him?

But he who endures to the end shall be saved. (Matthew 24:13 NKJV)

So the biblical picture is not simply: Believe once → automatically sealed forever → nothing can ever change.

The pattern as it appears in scripture is: Hear Christ → believe → repent → obey → receive the Holy Spirit → abide in Christ → bear fruit → endure to the end.

And this is important: the Holy Spirit is God's guarantee, but a guarantee is not permission to abandon Christ.

The very fact that the Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of truth should make us take Jesus' warnings seriously. Jesus said: If you love Me, keep My commandments.” (John 14:15 NKJV)

He also said: If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.” (John 15:10 NKJV)

Please consider . The example of the Roman seal on Jesus' tomb does not prove the doctrine being claimed. Matthew 27:66 simply says: “So they went and made the tomb secure, sealing the stone and setting the guard.” (Matthew 27:66 NKJV)

The passage does not say that the seal could only be broken by the Roman emperor or that nobody else could ever break it. And, most importantly, the stone was not the thing that prevented God from raising Jesus. So the analogy cannot establish eternal security.

The better question is: What did Jesus say about His own disciples?

Jesus repeatedly told His followers to abide, keep His commandments, bear fruit, watch, endure, and overcome.

He even gave this warning:

“Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent.” (Revelation 2:5 NKJV)

And to another church:

“Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.” (Revelation 2:10 NKJV)

So I would not say that God is weak, that His guarantee can fail, or that God cannot preserve those who belong to Him.

Rather, I would say this: God is faithful. His promise is sure. But Jesus never taught that a person may abandon Him, stop abiding in Him, reject His commandments, and still claim salvation because they were once sealed. do you think any king of desobedience to GOD commands will be permitted in heaven? surely Not!

The question is not whether God can keep His promise.

The question is whether we will remain faithful in Christ and love him with all our might and endure to the end.

And on that question, perhaps we should listen first to the One who will judge us: But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46 NKJV)

That is Jesus speaking. And His words deserve to be heard before we build our doctrine from anyone else's writings.
Thank you for your eloquent post. The Lord Jesus told His followers to abide in Him, keep His commandments, bear fruit, watch, endure and overcome as you mentioned.

(KJV John 15:5-6) "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."

(KJV John 14:21) "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."

(KJV Mark 13:35-37) "Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch."

(KJV Matthew 24:13) "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

(KJV 1 John 2:14) "I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one."

(KJV 1 Corinthians 6:9-10) "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdomof God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

(KJV Galatians 5:19-21) "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."
 
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Do you really hear yourself? You don't want to know your eternal destiny????

It is obvious that God's love for us would involve giving us assurances that we will be with Him forever--not just temporarily.
Why is that obvious? That was not the case with Adam and Eve. Nor with Lucifer before he rebelled.
 
Yes, for some reason I seem to have been singled out? Perhaps I was a bit too strong or too pointed? You would not know how much I've been deleted because quite simply--I was deleted...massively. I was told I could discuss things on the Unorthodox part of the Forum. Even there I may have been censored.

I complained that others were able to discuss certain subjects openly. But no matter how I tried to be fair, I was deleted and given ridiculous reasons for doing so. Ultimately I began to complain, and of course that is not allowed unless it is done privately in the mod part of the forum. That yielded no results whatsoever.

I'm happy for you. But I don't think you have a balanced view. Perhaps you have a personal friendship? Or, perhaps you simply agree with them on matters of less concern to them. Anyway you look at it, it is partial and unwilling to reason things out. Worse, it is judgmental towards opinions like OSAS or Calvinism which largely would be considered orthodox, but to them is viewed as a serious heresy. True?
I have to apologise. I have just noticed that I am subscribed to https://www.christianforums.com, and looking back, you were talking about something called christianforums.net, which I cannot find. Sorry for the confusion.
 
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Repent doesn't mean a continuing action of lessening sin in our lives.

It is a change of mind, heart. Not a work when talking about receiving eternal life.
It's not 'turning from sin'...how does a lost person, dead in sin, turn from it?

Know you are a sinner headed for hell. Believe Jesus is God, that He died and rose again, lived sinless. That by believing in Him, you have forgiven sin and everlasting life. John 3:16, 36 5:24, 6:40.
 
And did God's love for them involve giving them assurances that they would be with Him forever--not just temporarily?
That's what I believe the Gospel is for. And that Gospel was not for Lucifer, nor for angels. It was given to Adam and Eve with the assurance that God was still with them and giving them future hope, through the judgment of the Serpent.
 
Good luck keeping all the commandments. You will be judged accordingly. I prefer the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.
its easy when the Holy Spirit is with you, just try and see. good luck to you too....

you like others prefer the vague notion of the law of Christ that no one has so far defined properly. everyone has a different take on it....

Just remember Christ did say to enter into life to Keep the Commandments so simple and yet so many refuse. too bad.
 
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its easy when the Holy Spirit is with you, just try and see. good luck to you too....

you like others prefer the vague notion of the law of Christ that no one has so far defined properly. everyone has a different take on it....

Just remember Christ did say to enter into life to Keep the Commandments so simple and yet so many refuse. too bad.
You and too many others forget that there is a new covenant. New covenant, new life, new law. It's the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ.
 
its easy when the Holy Spirit is with you, just try and see. good luck to you too....

you like others prefer the vague notion of the law of Christ that no one has so far defined properly. everyone has a different take on it....

Just remember Christ did say to enter into life to Keep the Commandments so simple and yet so many refuse. too bad.
How many demons have you cast out? That's one of the commands that Christ gave. You can't define the law of Christ because it not a set of written rules. It's life, not law. The Lord told me to quit a job because it had become oppressive and no longer a blessing. You won't find that in the commandments. Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God. Not those who try their best to obey the law.
 
How many demons have you cast out? That's one of the commands that Christ gave. You can't define the law of Christ because it not a set of written rules. It's life, not law. The Lord told me to quit a job because it had become oppressive and no longer a blessing. You won't find that in the commandments. Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God. Not those who try their best to obey the law.


I've cast out one. I don't come across too many demon possessed people but God will work through anyone who is willing to obey Him.


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When you're already saved, the tendency is to want to please God by obeying Him. I don't know why you wouldn't want to.


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I would advise stay clear of any Christian who argued against the wisdom contained in the ten commandments of God.

They articulate love and respect for both God and man.

Who could possibly argue against that? Well,Satan of course. But I'm referring to those in Christ.

Who could possibly ever insist the ten commandments do not apply to us today?

God said he wrote his laws upon our hearts so we would never be far from them.
 
That's what I believe the Gospel is for. And that Gospel was not for Lucifer, nor for angels. It was given to Adam and Eve with the assurance that God was still with them and giving them future hope, through the judgment of the Serpent.
You said "It is obvious that God's love for us would involve giving us assurances that we will be with Him forever--not just temporarily.”

Why did God’s love for Adam and Eve before they fell not involve giving them assurances that they would be with Him forever--not just temporarily, if it is obvious that God’s love for us would involve giving us assurances that we will be with Him forever--not just temporarily.?

And why do you assume the gospel was not for angels? Why do you assume there is no pathway to reconciliation for angels? What if an angel develops a broken heart over its evildoing and rebellion?

Psa 51:17
My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart you, God, will not despise.

Eph 3:10
His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms,

God is love. Do you think He loves angels less than He loves mankind? Why would He love one kind less than the other? Why would He desire reconciliation with one kind of sentient creature, but not with another?
 
You said "It is obvious that God's love for us would involve giving us assurances that we will be with Him forever--not just temporarily.”

Why did God’s love for Adam and Eve before they fell not involve giving them assurances that they would be with Him forever--not just temporarily, if it is obvious that God’s love for us would involve giving us assurances that we will be with Him forever--not just temporarily.?
I just showed you that God did, in fact, give Adam and Eve eternal assurance that they would be with Him forever. He did that by maintaining His presence with them, by giving them promises, and by guaranteeing that the condemnation brought by the cunning Serpent would be completely dealt with--he would have his head crushed.

God cast Adam and Eve out of the Garden and away from the Tree of Life not to deny them eternity, but to execute his judgment against their current physical state of living a contaminated, sin-infected life. The fact the Serpent would be defeated and the judgments against Adam and Eve temporary and connected to their mortal existence, indicated a time would come when they would be free of these judgments and the restriction they had from partaking of the Tree of Life.

The completion of that story is given in the book of Revelation. They were, in fact, assured of Eternal Life due to their desire to have it.
And why do you assume the gospel was not for angels? Why do you assume there is no pathway to reconciliation for angels? What if an angel develops a broken heart over its evildoing and rebellion?
Angels are not our concern. Jesus' redemption was for men--not angels.
 
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